If the police force can't be monitored by the people it's supposed to protect, it will inheritly become corrupted with power.  

Posted by Fanta

agree with that , rest is opinion

Explain to me how any of the following is opinion based.

"If you have a problem with someone, the proper procedure is to use the report button, because that is the only way staff are going to help in that field."

"If you have a question then there is the feedback button, or toonslab, or graalians. You don't need to spam staff with a question that is probably common sense. "

"If you have any sort of account or game issue there is toonslab."  

Posted by Multipas*

If the police force can't be monitored by the people it's supposed to protect, it will inheritly become corrupted with power.

agreed

Posted by Multipas*

If the police force can't be monitored by the people it's supposed to protect, it will inheritly become corrupted with power.

+rep

Posted by MrSimons

"If you have a problem with someone, the proper procedure is to use the report button, because that is the only way staff are going to help in that field."

"If you have a question then there is the feedback button, or toonslab, or graalians. You don't need to spam staff with a question that is probably common sense. "

"If you have any sort of account or game issue there is toonslab."

heh. I've reported people for things they should be reported for, and they aren't banned. considering the fact that I sent an email to toonslab about a game issue, and they haven't replied back after 1+ year. Unreliable, right? Toonslab ALSO doesn't necessarily take into account any feedback about making Graal bigger, but I might be wrong. then again, Graal is REALLY small rn. (about 5x smaller then 6 years ago) If it's because of payment issues, I suggest you look at super smash flash 2. Not ONLY a non-profit game, but also a very detailed game, and many people play it.  

Certain contacts should exist, including the manager, Graal Police admin, and perhaps even Graal Police members. As it stands you have no way of contacting the administration unless you have a private way to contact them, which makes the whole system very elitist.  

Posted by MattKan

Certain contacts should exist, including the manager, Graal Police admin, and perhaps even Graal Police members. As it stands you have no way of contacting the administration unless you have a private way to contact them, which makes the whole system very elitist.

http://support.toonslab.com/

and if you're referring to GP's that is what the in-game report feature is for  

Posted by Colin

http://support.toonslab.com/

and if you're referring to GP's that is what the in-game report feature is for

That's not really what I'm talking about.  

Posted by MrSimons

I'm in support of there not being a public staff list. Staff don't need their names public so that they can be bothered while they work, hell most of the people on that staff list shouldn't even have a staff account. I mean really, what does a graphics team member actually need a staff account for? And why would a player ever need to message that staff member?

Reasons they need a staff account:

•Test out Images (hats, heads, weapons, anything really).

•Fix image errors and see how to improve the image's look and usability in-game.

•Approve uploads (for some odd reason Zone Patrol do it on Zone, but I believe the GFX team on other servers do it).

---

Reasons they get PMed:

•Help with uploading/other graphical issues players are facing.

•Suggest graphical improvements or errors they see.

•Give ideas of what they'd like to see you make (hats, shops, weapons).  

Ive been sitting in the Battle Arena for hours watching hackers fly on by winning match by match, what can I do? Nothing but report and if the player is still not banned or even warned, one would simply try and contact a GP personally.
For the Graphics, What if a shield I had uploaded was denied for a particular reason that I did not know how to fix? I hope they dont expect me to run to someone I know or don't know to either hear they dont know either or theyre too busy when I could just fix it myself after asking the graphic member.
The levels team, I could find a problem regarding a certain level. It would be useful to be able to contact the level admin that is currently online, if not then yeah I can go on these very forums.  

From what I understand, the reason people want a staff contacts sign is because tools like reporting, toonslab support, or feedback go unnoticed. So instead of adding the sign back, shouldn't we just focus on improving the effectiveness of these tools?  

Posted by kenovo

Reasons they need a staff account:

•Test out Images (hats, heads, weapons, anything really).


•Fix image errors and see how to improve the image's look and usability in-game.

•Approve uploads (for some odd reason Zone Patrol do it on Zone, but I believe the GFX team on other servers do it).

---

Reasons they get PMed:

•Help with uploading/other graphical issues players are facing.

•Suggest graphical improvements or errors they see.

•Give ideas of what they'd like to see you make (hats, shops, weapons).

•Test out Images (hats, heads, weapons, anything really).
Why do you need access to the server to test an image? It doesn't change it's appearance when you upload it to graal. And if you really need to test an image in game, there is this neat thing called the dev server, where you test things before adding them to the actual game. Wow.

•Fix image errors and see how to improve the image's look and usability in-game.
Same as above.

•Approve uploads (for some odd reason Zone Patrol do it on Zone, but I believe the GFX team on other servers do it).
Graal Police do it on classic, there is no server where that is specifically the graphics team's job. And it shouldn't be.

•Help with uploading/other graphical issues players are facing.
•Suggest graphical improvements or errors they see.
•Give ideas of what they'd like to see you make (hats, shops, weapons).
I guess that would be reasonable, if there wasn't an in game feedback option, or a public forum.

Posted by Wolfsages

heh. I've reported people for things they should be reported for, and they aren't banned. considering the fact that I sent an email to toonslab about a game issue, and they haven't replied back after 1+ year. Unreliable, right? Toonslab ALSO doesn't necessarily take into account any feedback about making Graal bigger, but I might be wrong. then again, Graal is REALLY small rn. (about 5x smaller then 6 years ago) If it's because of payment issues, I suggest you look at super smash flash 2. Not ONLY a non-profit game, but also a very detailed game, and many people play it.

However ineffective you think those systems are, private messaging staff is even more ineffective, and all you should be getting as a response is a directive to go use the appropriate tool to report players or issues.

Posted by Livid

Ive been sitting in the Battle Arena for hours watching hackers fly on by winning match by match, what can I do? Nothing but report and if the player is still not banned or even warned, one would simply try and contact a GP personally.
For the Graphics, What if a shield I had uploaded was denied for a particular reason that I did not know how to fix? I hope they dont expect me to run to someone I know or don't know to either hear they dont know either or theyre too busy when I could just fix it myself after asking the graphic member.
The levels team, I could find a problem regarding a certain level. It would be useful to be able to contact the level admin that is currently online, if not then yeah I can go on these very forums.

As I have said before, private messaging a GP is going to be less effective than using the report system. There are systems in place to detect hacking though, so you shouldn't even need to report them.

As for graphics, uploads fall under the Graal Police's jurisdiction, not the graphics team.

As for levels, feedback, toonslab, and graalians are still more effective.

Posted by Brick

From what I understand, the reason people want a staff contacts sign is because tools like reporting, toonslab support, or feedback go unnoticed. So instead of adding the sign back, shouldn't we just focus on improving the effectiveness of these tools?

No because no one actually cares that much about having effective systems in place, they just want to be cool and have admin friends.  

I use the server all the time to test something I'm making. To get a feel of how it looks on a player, and how it looks in-game. I'm not saying Graphics Team NEEDS access, all developers don't. But it makes things simpler, just as adding back the staff list does. Not everything has to be some complicated extravaganza.  

Quite honestly, I don't see why the staff list is necessary for any staff members besides Graal Police. I agree that it might help troublemakers since they now know when no one is online to stop them. I like the idea of an option to message a random online staff member, too, but there are still problems with that. What if that person is hosting an event, and already has hundreds of messages? Regardless, it sounds like a good idea.

I hope I'm not alone in thinking of answering questions as part of our job as Graal Police, and I doubt I am. Having your name on a list won't do much for a staff member working on levels, for example, because the vast majority of the people playing Classic have no experience with levels (they don't even know Graal was originally for PC) and thus little actual criticism or otherwise to offer to you. I don't think cluttering their inbox with the questions of players would help them make levels, either, and that's really what you get from being on that staff list. If you want to know who works is part of the LAT, I can answer that question.


Less related to the staff list, but still relevant: If anyone has any unanswered questions, please direct them to me or another staff member of your choice, if you have one. You can look my profile up, the nickname is Jarace Feare. I'll try reply to anything that isn't just harassment or things I can't answer, and if I miss your PM, message me again after a while. After events, no promises but I try to check all of the hundreds of them. I often do ignore the messages that are just people saying hi or asking if I can host, though.

As for feedback, I try to check it. I'm not on constantly, but if I see someone with an actual question like "Why didn't I get the gralats I paid for in the shop?" or "Where can I apply for staff?", I do answer them personally.  

If you see someone hacking and you report them and nothing is done about it, then it is most likely that no GPs are currently online, so really, having a list to try and personally PM them probably won't help either. Typically when someone is reported for hacking, the GP members will take action right away. If nothing happens, there probably isn't anyone online to investigate.  

GPs do act if you report while they are online.  

Posted by Crono

GPs do act if you report while they are online.

i'm having a feeling you are gonna be a Moderator soon.
Going to join the ********** are you? Lol