why is there even a thread for this, who honestly cares. people died, yep. better spend 13 pages discussing the "religion of peace".  

22 dead, 59 injured rip  

Posted by PigParty

Isn't that why America is so great? We're supposed to be better than those countries. Pretty funny that it's apparently okay to violate human rights just because other countries, that we pride ourselves as being better than, do it too.

America was founded on principals believed to be the natural rights of all peoples. That is the Constitution, and is what makes America what it is today, and not the countries you're criticizing for abusing their peoples' natural rights.

The Constitution is what prevents the police from targeting you without reason. The Constitution is what prevents people of different races from being treated unequally. The Constitution is what prevented the President from signing an executive order that discriminates by religion. The Constitution - like it or not - applies to every situation. There's no exemption just because it applies to an issue of which you're okay with violating those humans' rights.

Off-topic, but the constitution argument kinda bothers me. Do you realize that we are not that interested in human rights as a country? It has failed to stop people from being targeted by the police for no reason (Nixon criminalizes marijuana so the police can search stoner's and black peoples' homes). It doesn't even prevent people or races from being treated unequally. The court systems routinely convict black people more than white people. White people earn more than Asians or blacks for the same work. Some states can fire people on the basis of them being trans or gay. Women don't earn what men do. The government can freely spy on its citizens.

The constitution was NOT founded on the natural rights of people's... It was founded on the natural rights of white males. I know you realize this, we all took a history class, but you have to really think about it. We, as a country, are not that into human rights. How could we not have solved some of these obvious violations of human rights or inequality? If you don't believe that we are not progressive on human rights, look at our UN voting record. If you care about human rights it will horrify you.

I'm not saying any of this is alright (personally, I hate it) but human rights aren't even really cared about by our government.  

28 coptic Christians killed, children included and 22 injured in Egypt.  

Posted by Areo

Off-topic, but the constitution argument kinda bothers me. Do you realize that we are not that interested in human rights as a country? It has failed to stop people from being targeted by the police for no reason (Nixon criminalizes marijuana so the police can search stoner's and black peoples' homes). It doesn't even prevent people or races from being treated unequally. The court systems routinely convict black people more than white people. White people earn more than Asians or blacks for the same work. Some states can fire people on the basis of them being trans or gay. Women don't earn what men do. The government can freely spy on its citizens.

The constitution was NOT founded on the natural rights of people's... It was founded on the natural rights of white males. I know you realize this, we all took a history class, but you have to really think about it. We, as a country, are not that into human rights. How could we not have solved some of these obvious violations of human rights or inequality? If you don't believe that we are not progressive on human rights, look at our UN voting record. If you care about human rights it will horrify you.

I'm not saying any of this is alright (personally, I hate it) but human rights aren't even really cared about by our government.

No one said America was perfect. It's immensely flawed, but the Constitution is based on the principals that all people have rights from birth. The Constitution has allowed America to progress, to illegalize slavery, to give women the right to vote, to prevent the police from seizing evidence illegally. The Constitution is to he interpreted, and the courts change their interpretations over time and based on the ideologies of society. The world will never be perfect. America will never be perfect. The Constitution was made so that we as a country can always continue to work towards perfection, knowing it will never be achieved. No one expected the Constitution to make the government perfect from the get-go, but it has allowed America to grow.

Posted by Crono

you're confusing criticism of islam with criticism of muslims

no, they're both wrong. You can't criticize Islam without criticizing Muslims, and you can't criticize Muslims for their religious beliefs without criticizing Islam.

Posted by Thallen

nice
reminds me of that time a Christian terrorist group called on all Christians to kill non-Christian on Easter, haha

https://www.uhv.edu/media/school-of-...terrorists.pdf  

Posted by PigParty

no, they're both wrong. You can't criticize Islam without criticizing Muslims, and you can't criticize Muslims for their religious beliefs without criticizing Islam.

by your logic no one can criticize any system of beliefs  

Posted by PigParty

no, they're both wrong. You can't criticize Islam without criticizing Muslims, and you can't criticize Muslims for their religious beliefs without criticizing Islam.

no, actually, you're wrong.  

Posted by Kosiris

by your logic no one can criticize any system of beliefs

how so? I'm just saying if you criticize the Bible, then you're criticizing the people who believe in and practice what the Bible teaches. To criticize Islam is to criticize the Muslims that practice Islam.

Now there may be different interpretations, but then you're not criticizing Islam, you'd be criticizing someone's interpretation of Islam, and therefore criticizing the people who believe in that interpretation.

If you criticize a pair of shoes and say they're ugly, then you're also criticizing those that wear those shoes, not on the same level clearly, but you're saying that the clothes someone likes is ugly. Pretty easy concept. Criticize what someone believes in, and you criticize the person.  

Posted by Crono

no, actually, you're wrong.

Holy **** how Swedish are you be a man  

Posted by Crono

no, actually, you're wrong.

great argument.  

Posted by Señor Albonio

Holy **** how Swedish are you be a man

the **** are you talking about

Posted by PigParty

great argument.

there is no argument, you're just flat out wrong. i can criticize the US without criticizing americans. i can criticize graal without criticizing its players. criticizing a religion doesnt mean you're criticizing its followers.  

Posted by Crono

there is no argument, you're just flat out wrong. i can criticize the US without criticizing americans. i can criticize graal without criticizing its players. criticizing a religion doesnt mean you're criticizing its followers.

That's different than criticizing what someone believes in. You can't just compare it to examples that clearly don't relate. You're taking silly examples just like criticizing a garden hose for not being well made, and saying that it's not criticizing people who own that hose. That's obvious. One is a religious belief, the other is a video game, or a garden hose.

As a Christian, I can say that anyone who criticizes the Christian beliefs is criticizing me and all Christians. And that's fine, as long as you understand who you're criticizing. I'm not at all saying you can't criticize Islam, Christianity, or those that practice it, but I am pointing out that they are one in the same.  

Posted by PigParty

That's different than criticizing what someone believes in. You can't just compare it to examples that clearly don't relate. You're taking silly examples just like criticizing a garden hose for not being well made, and saying that it's not criticizing people who own that hose. That's obvious. One is a religious belief, the other is a video game, or a garden hose.

As a Christian, I can say that anyone who criticizes the Christian beliefs is criticizing me and all Christians. And that's fine, as long as you understand who you're criticizing. I'm not at all saying you can't criticize Islam, Christianity, or those that practice it, but I am pointing out that they are one in the same.

i can call out an idealogy without calling out its followers. you dont seem to understand this, this isnt an opinion.  

Posted by Crono

i can call out an idealogy without calling out its followers. you dont seem to understand this, this isnt an opinion.

I don't know what response you expect other than lol.

Pretty hard to take you seriously when you just make statements like "you're wrong" or 'it's a fact, not an opinion' in place of any real substantive support.

If I say the idea of a flying spaghetti monster as a god is stupid, then I am calling out pastafarians and saying their beliefs are stupid.

You can keep saying you're right all you want. It doesn't change how wrong you are, even if in your mind it does.  

Difference in a JOKE(not a real religion) that worships a spaghetti monster for fun and a serious religion that preaches death to homosexuals.

If your argument is criticising Islam is criticising all Muslims for their beliefs then you are implying all Muslims support the beliefs of the Quran which implies all Muslims support the terrorism and mistreament of homosexuals and women, which ruins the whole argument you've been making.