Hillary, for one, has championed welfare reform for longer than I've been alive. So there is that.

Regarding your point about Trump's business. Of course his stuff is made in China. It's a good business decision to do it, and he'd lose money otherwise. This is why Trump knows best how to stop certain things that businesses do that lose American jobs. An example is the H1B reform to bring more jobs back to US workers. He has also talked about removing the tax loopholes that big businesses use to avoid the taxes. These are good things.

And I'll make a large bet with anyone that Sanders does not win the nomination.

With all this said, I think I'm going to forgo this thread until the primaries are over, and then come back for all the Trump vs. Hillary comments. Was good discussion.  

Posted by Fulgore

Hillary, for one, has championed welfare reform for longer than I've been alive. So there is that.

They key word is reform.

Posted by Fulgore

Regarding your point about Trump's business. Of course his stuff is made in China. It's a good business decision to do it, and he'd lose money otherwise.

That's what he is. A businessman. Not a politician. If he honestly gave two ****s about our jobs he would be producing them in America, since as he has said that he has more money than he knows what to do with.

Posted by Fulgore

This is why Trump knows best how to stop certain things that businesses do that lose American jobs.

Why can't you see that he's part of the ****ing problem? That's like asking a crimelord to join the FBI since he knows how to stop crimes.  

Everyone talks about three crappy candidates that the media loves to cover. Hillary is a criminal who is still in big trouble for the server scandal. And yes it IS a big problem. Sanders in a freaking socialist, and when you ask his supporters what socialism is they have know idea. If you support Sanders then I recommend you do a bit of reading on both socialism and what Sanders wants. Trump, I hardly have to say anything since he's an idiot that says the same thing all the time. Listen to him sometime, he says "it's gonna be great" "you'll love it" and other lines but NEVER tells you details.

For me, I'm all for Cruz right now. He has the best chance of beating trump and if you read into his story you'll understand why he'd make a great president! That's my rant, just got tired of seeing ignorant/uninformed people voting for three trash candidates.  

Bernie wants to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour which I don't agree with. Companies can't keep all of their current employees while doubling their pay. Unemployment will go up due to the increased number of lay offs and small businesses will die out, which is ironic since he's all about cracking down on big companies and helping small ones.  

Posted by Rockson

Sanders in a freaking socialist, and when you ask his supporters what socialism is they have know idea.

Democratic Socialist. His views are very different from the standard definition of socialism. Maybe you need to do some research yourself.

Posted by Brick

Bernie wants to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour which I don't agree with. Companies can't keep all of their current employees while doubling their pay. Unemployment will go up due to the increased number of lay offs and small businesses will die out, which is ironic since he's all about cracking down on big companies and helping small ones.

I don't think his intentions are to just bump up the minimum wage asap, because as you said that would be a terrible idea. I think what he means is he wants to create a society where 15 dollars minimum is ideal and possible.  

Posted by Fulgore

@GOAT

I'm not going to say sorry to you because I'm lucky enough to come from wealth, that isn't something to apologize for. Nobody asking you to do soI also don't understand why it has become the trend to view anyone with wealth as evil and greedyyeah bro that evil bill gates and warren buffet how dare do they give millions to charities. My parents both were raised on farms before moving out, and worked very hard to earn the money they do now, and I'm incredibly proud of it.define work hard. do they wake up at the crack of dawn to bust their ass just so they can't be on welfare I refuse to be shamed into another stance because I'm viewed poorly for coming from wealth.the problem is not your stance, the problem is picking a stance based on the wrong information. You are free to believe what you want, all I'm doing is helping you realize that it's based on wrong assumptions I value working hard for money, not giving it to people, hence why I want to create jobs instead of welfare handouts, hence Trump.Like I said we the poor people contribute more than the rich And I only voted Trump because Rubio and Kasich don't really have a chance. (Rubio was still in when I voted a few days ago).

Posted by Fulgore

Was not quoting you or anything about Bernie on that last comment, though I admire how eager to just attack / argue you are. (probably not attack but I figured I'd leave the option open)

Either way, it's as Thallen said earlier, discussion on Bernie is pointless because he lost already.

That's the sad part. This is why this country will never be great again. At the end of the day the rich will continue to run this country whether republicans or democrats. The rich will keep getting richer and the poor will get poorer.

Posted by Fulgore

Take a look at the history of Democrats and social aid programs. Wasn't talking about Bernie in specific, but it is quite clear which of the 2 parties is in favor of these kinds of handouts. Pretending they don't exist is just ignorant, as welfare at this point in time is starting to edge on dependency for some, no doubt.

Let's do that.
The guy that started a lot of these social aid programs("handouts') was FDR(maybe your grandparents benefited from these "handouts"), a Democrat, BUT those democrats shared a lot of the ideologies/ideas of today's republicans.

Do you know why they were started? Oh yeah that small thing that happened in the 20's. Do you know why the depression happened? Yeah a free market with very little government intervention. <-- Who's for that in this thread?


If the depression wouldn't have happened you would be voting democrat today fulgy. So a president with todays republican views started these social aid programs. To help starving white folks. They didn't start to help illegals.

All that wealth and you still haven't taken a political science class? You should, good stuff.

Posted by Fulgore

Pretending they don't exist is just ignorant, as welfare at this point in time is starting to edge on dependency for some, no doubt.

Agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if you believed illegal immigrants are the guilty ones. What is trumps solution to this? Deport Mexicans? lol What they need to do is change the system so people aren't allowed to abuse it.

Posted by Fulgore

With all this said, I think I'm going to forgo this thread until the primaries are over, and then come back for all the Trump vs. Hillary comments. Was good discussion.

You just going to keep taking L's bro. Just SA like Queen Sarah_  

Posted by GOAT

You just going to keep taking L's bro.

but ur points are all invalid because bernie already lost!!!34gfoinaodp3  

Posted by Yog

when his own clothing is manufactured in China. Something he could easily move over here.

But why would he want to? Trying to move low-paying labor force jobs here doesn't really help us. When Chinese workers are willing to work for the price of a latte, it doesn't make sense for him to move it back. If anything that limits the growth of his company, which hurts the better paying clothing designer jobs which are located here in the US.

Not defending Trump, but I completely agree with him leaving his factory in china.



While my state hasn't voted yet. It won't vote for a long time, to the point where the primaries may already be decided. I can say that I'll probably register independent. Seeing as no surviving candidate represents my views.  

Posted by Areo

But why would he want to? Trying to move low-paying labor force jobs here doesn't really help us. When Chinese workers are willing to work for the price of a latte, it doesn't make sense for him to move it back. If anything that limits the growth of his company

Yes, if you're trying to save money then it's an obvious choice, but Trump saying he has more money than he knows what to do with makes me question why he wants to outsource to China. Maybe it's possible that he's a greedy liar who doesn't actually have as much as he says he does, and doesn't care about how jobs are slowly disappearing.

Like I've said before, he may be a good business-man, but that doesn't mean he would be a good president.

Posted by Areo

which hurts the better paying clothing designer jobs which are located here in the US.

If they pay better, exactly how is it going to hurt them?  

Posted by Yog

when his own clothing is manufactured in China

Why wouldn't it be? The entire problem is that he's given the option of buying such cheap labor from China. He was a businessman before he became a candidate for president, and when you're running a business you're doing everything available to you to maximize profits and make your business successful. It'd be the same situation if Trump was using tax havens and other tax loopholes. Does he think tax loopholes should be closed? Yes. Assuming he's used tax loopholes before, which I'm sure he has, that doesn't make him a hypocrite in any way. He's being allowed to do it. He is saying you shouldn't be allowed to do it.

Pretty corny to use a Graal analogy, but it's like the current state of tower guilds. It's completely stupid, the cycle of reaching 1000 hours and then restarting as a new tag to re-obtain the 1000-hour reward. Does that mean I'm not going to do it? Hell no, it's the best way to achieve what you're after. It's just that it shouldn't work that way, I shouldn't be allowed to do it.  

Raising the minimum wage to $15 is a terrible idea  

ok lets settle this **** once and for all
he lists all his policies here
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions

thats all he gives a **** about, everything else is up to the states to decide.  

Posted by Thallen

The Middle East does, too. We need to stop wasting time and resources trying to stabilize areas that don't want to be stabilized. We just get ****ed in the end. I'd like to be selfish and look out for ourselves for 4 or 8 years.

then stop destabilizing them???  

Posted by Yog

Yes, if you're trying to save money then it's an obvious choice, but Trump saying he has more money than he knows what to do with makes me question why he wants to outsource to China. Maybe it's possible that he's a greedy liar who doesn't actually have as much as he says he does, and doesn't care about how jobs are slowly disappearing.

1. My question is, why would he want to? There is no reason for him to bring the factories here, for us or for him. Factory jobs are a no go, I posted about this earlier in the thread.

Unless you feel differently about those kind of jobs.

2. Jobs are not disappearing, I have statistics to back that up.

Posted by YOG

If they pay better, exactly how is it going to hurt them?

You misunderstood, I stated that if his profit margins decrease because he moves his factor work here, then there will be less high pay designer jobs. Which would be bad.

Of course higher paying jobs are what we want  

Posted by Yog

Democratic Socialist. His views are very different from the standard definition of socialism. Maybe you need to do some research yourself.

**** off, its literally socialism just with democracy slapped on in front of it.