Better to scale stats such as health and speed better than to change the gun stats now ~  

You're all entitled to your own opinions - if you disagree with me, that's fine. I don't like the current situation, as do a few others. Please keep this thread reasonably tidy.  

What's going to happen is:
People with so called "OP" guns will oppose the poll
People who can't afford them will support it.
It's not going to be unanimous, i for one don't support it as it's unfair to change the stats of a very pricey gun, there's a reason why it's pricey, you know.  

Yes, because they're OVER POWERED. There's a reason people buy them over other guns.  

Completely agree with Layerd and Lavaclaw. I also say no for those reasons.  

Here's another long read, fellas. Enjoy.

Posted by Ozzy Magus

The bar,shipka,pbp,souizen are high-priced, so have to be 'better' (stats-wise) then other guns.

Better-- but not by such a margin as the BAR is.
Back in 2004, Era had expensive guns, that were the same tier(stat-wise) as the other guns.

They controlled the stock of the gun. When a new gun was released, only 15 of them were in stock. The first fifteen people to buy it got it.(It would be the equivalent of about 100 in stock on iEra player count).

People still bought the gun; and everybody wanted to have it. They bought it because it made you look cool to have a rare gun. Guns don't need to be overpowered to be desired. Scarcity works just as well.

In fact, people turned around and paid more for the gun than the shop sold it for, because of player trading. Once a gun was out of stock, it was up to the black market to set the price(player trading). Good times.

Posted by Ozzy Magus

Ask for a better gun balance, not nerfs.(If all guns are good...its better than have some good guns, some bad guns).
I'd like perfect gun balance rather than nerfs on so called 'op' guns.

I see what you're saying, "close the gap"; per-say.
Which I've done to the guns such as M16, MP40, SMGPK, MK23s-- I've closed the gap on them to better compete with the M4 and Sten. They were a joke when I first got here.

But I'm not going to close the gap further, so they compete with the BAR.
I prefer my guns to require a certain level of skill; which I'm sure a PKer of your stature would agree with.

Not only that, but iEra's mentality of 'pay2win' would have been mind-****ed if I closed the gap this far. The BAR users would rage so hard, I'd fall into the same hole Cloyd fell into. All he was trying to do was make the game require skill-- same as I'm doing. We old schoolers tend to do that, because we remember a time when Era PC required skill; and recognize it as a better experience for the player.

One would have to understand where we're coming from. To be honest, the current M4 stats really don't measure much skill requirement, in my opinion. But it's the level that iEra has been trained to deem appropriate, so I deal with it. Cloyd and I 'grew up' in a time where top-tier guns generally functioned around the stats of the current P90; in terms of freeze. A gun like the M4 would have been considered OP back then.

Posted by Layerd

It´d be a scam in my opinion. (Making them pay 100-200k for a good gun and nerf it after)

Indeed; which is why I stated that I would need sufficient player response to even consider this-- no matter how much I support it myself.

Unfortunately, the person in charge of guns when the BAR was released was under the impression that this game should be pay2win.

Posted by Engel

And they would be given a partial refund

I support the idea of refunds upon gun changes.
However, there are players that wouldn't have even cared about gralats until they seen a gun that's as powerful as the BAR.

Once I get more guns out that compete with the M4-tier guns, the idea of getting a refund for the BAR would sit much easier-- they'd want to buy a gun that's almost as good, for half the price.

Posted by Graal943

typically a higher price is better quality.

Again- I don't really stand by this theory because in 2004, higher price wasn't based on a gun stats-- it was based on the gun's rarity.

"price = quality" is an entirely new-school notion conjured up by inexperienced iEra Gun Admins that clearly weren't playing prior to 2007.

Posted by Graal943

Any sort of work isn't "fun", it was never meant to be "fun" nor will it ever be "fun". Digging is a way of earning your items without wasting money on a game.

I agree with you here-- work isn't not supposed to be fun.
You get what you earn.
It requires work regardless. If you're not working for it in-game, then you(or your parents) are working for it IRL and converting it to iTunes credit.

However, I believe more work should be put into learning to fight with a weapon, not the purchase of it.

Posted by SnakeRekon

Better to scale stats such as health and speed better than to change the gun stats now ~

I was just thinking about suggesting an HP increase today- weird.  

You know is funny, in PC Era, I can beat the best player with just a simple mk47 when they have a minigun or a Sten. Why can't I do that on iEra?  

Meph, you have a double post going on there.

I vote against a nerf. In my opinion, I think the price=quality ideology is wrong, but has deep roots in iEra. Changing it now would turn players off. Maybe instead the current undesired structure can be used as a skeleton. Maybe those "rare, same-tier" guns can be introduced slowly in the future. Since its all we've known, I've grown accustomed to price=quality.

My only opposition to those "rare" guns are how they are handled now. The pink m4, golden Uzi, etc... They are almost never seen. And if the auction is the place to find them, it's still pay to win. Lame.

Anyway, my answer is no. Nerfing will hurt the game and it's not worth doing to please everyone.  

Posted by Meph

I was just thinking about suggesting an HP increase today- weird.

I've ran it across Snk before, I believe he said we'd have to ask Stefan in regards to it, though i'm sure you'd be able to push the argument better than myself for it, bumping it to atleast 75 would suffice for the time being, it would allow guns to be modified much better.

My other idea was allowing for a 0.5 damage system, aka 2.5 damage etc, this also means we can differ guns more easily instead of having them either one number or the other.  

Easy way to nerf all the op guns without "nerfing" them.

Increase health.
Buff all guns, with the lesser guns gaining more improvements.

Example (dramatized to demonstrate the concept, not suggest a planned improvement):
Max Health: 75
Bar: 10 base damage, no changes to other stats
M4: 9 base damage, no changes to other stats
Famas: 8 base damage, higher rate of fire, increased spread
Handgun: 7 base damage, increased spread (even more spread dual wield)

Current Hits to Kill: (Bar)6:13(Handgun)
Example Changes: (Bar)8:11(Handgun)

Not all guns would receive damage buffs (ie Famas) to add variety and help disguise the nerfs.  

No. Layerd, Graal943, and LavaClaw said it best. Don't nerf the guns. They're reasonable for their insanely high price.  

Nerf bar and pbp. M4 is not the basic basing gun. Its now bar and pbp  

Posted by islander13

No. Layerd, Graal943, and LavaClaw said it best. Don't nerf the guns. They're reasonable for their insanely high price.

Lol, "reasonable". Read this :p

http://www.graalians.com/forums/show...erpowered+guns  

Im sick and tired of this bullshiit that happens in graal with weapons. Everyone is too damn scared of change. The bar was nerfed once people still used it alot. It had a higher freeze so what? It still dominated in bases it just made it harder to use.

You bar and pbp owners are too fking scared that you wont dominate anymore. Nerf the OP guns. Fk snk fk stefan and unixmad. Screw them and **********ing off to money. Its for the best of era and you know it is. Old timers will come back to graal because it will be fun. All the nubs who are dumbasses and wont switch weapons will cry about it and leave. People will still buy ****loads of itunes just to get auction items and other guns. The gap MUST be closed up. At least so you can stand a chance against a BAR with a 7 damage gun. Pbp needs to go back to low rof low freeze and no stacked damage. They were better that way anyways. Meph wa hired to FIX the gun balancing crisis. To fix it bar and pbp are a major part in it. Mephs job will NEVER be done until he fixs the BAR and pbp

Also this price = higher quality = BULLSHIIT

Example.
A barreta 50caliber = about 10,000$ on the current market
A m4 = 800$
Sure the barreta hits much much much harder than a m4 but a m4 is a better weapon since its automatic, reliable, low recoil, easy to use, and larger clip size.  

Posted by Engel

Lol, "reasonable". Read this :p

http://www.graalians.com/forums/show...erpowered+guns

We all have opinions and i don't laugh at yours. I've read your thread before and i'm not interested in reading it a second time. I'm just voicing my position.