Posted by Fulgore

I agree with the abortion stance, I just wanted to highlight this to make a parallel for any super gun-control freaks out there who might be lurking.

Just a good article to read for you and anyone else interested on the topic of gun control:

http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com...t-than-the-us/

Posted by Dusty

You literally can, and it harms nothing but a growth of cells not unlike a tumor.

You can't run away. You have to face them. That's what I was saying. Facing them may be abortion, but you can't simply make it not exist. And because abortion is one of the ways to face it, that's why it's controversial. I'm sure if tumors could be illegal and they would stop what they do if it became illegal, we would make tumors illegal. It harms the development of a child is what it harms.  

Posted by PigParty

You also said people steal, even though it's illegal. Does that mean stealing should be made legal since people do it anyways? People murder, even though it's illegal. I still think murder should be illegal.

My point in saying drugs and stealing is illegal is that if abortion is made illegal it will still be done, and if it's done illegally it would be extremely dangerous. It's wrong to put women in such a position where they would have to do something dangerous in order to not have a child when they don't want one. Then there would be cases of babies that are born anyway and are extremely screwed up because of it. Like I said, we are an evolved and intelligent species. We are different from animals. We live longer lives and much more advanced meaning there are some of us that don't want children and will go through any means of making sure it doesn't happen, unlike animals that only really think "I need to survive and reproduce". It's not worth making it illegal. It's not like it effects you in any way anyway, it's not your choice to make.

Posted by PigParty

You can't run away. You have to face them. That's what I was saying. Facing them may be abortion, but you can't simply make it not exist. And because abortion is one of the ways to face it, that's why it's controversial. I'm sure if tumors could be illegal and they would stop what they do if it became illegal, we would make tumors illegal. It harms the development of a child is what it harms.

You're comparing things that don't even make sense now.  

Skimmed the article, I see it's mostly about crime rate etc.

Don't care about that as much. I just want the ability to protect myself if something were to happen to me. Not my job to care for the rest of these people who shoot each other up in the ghettos of Detroit.

If guns were nearly banned, like in the UK, and my home was broken into by someone armed with a gun (they don't care about this ban, they're robbing a damn house). I have only an option to hide and cross my fingers, as opposed to protect myself.  

Posted by PigParty

I know everyone has different opinions, and science has tried to play a part in it all and make up random stages where they consider the baby to be alive. Science should stay out of things they don't know.

k ur ******ed  

Posted by Areo

Key word SHADY. It doesn't matter if they lose their medicinal license. They will/can still do the procedure. Or they'll go to another country and circumvent your rules.

People will still have them, so you would rather risk the woman and the child as opposed to just one? No matter what the child will die if she chooses to have an abortion, she shouldn't have to die, or risk death.

You act like people will easily adhere to laws. They won't.

You're wrongly placing the responsibility on the law, when in fact the responsibility is on the enforcement of the law. Just because some women will still try to get an abortion, doesn't mean the law is flawed. It means the law enforcement is flawed. There can be many ways to go about reducing that. For example, education programs, strict no-discretion, high penalties, community involvement, etc. I never said women will follow the law every time. I said I know some won't, so that's hardly acting "like people will easilt adhere to laws." People don't adhere to the law that murder is illegal, yet you're basing your entire argument on the basis that if they still do it when it's illegal, it should be legalized. You don't think my argument is very good, but you aren't understanding how bad your argument is...

Posted by Coco

My point in saying drugs and stealing is illegal is that if abortion is made illegal it will still be done, and if it's done illegally it would be extremely dangerous. It's wrong to put women in such a position where they would have to do something dangerous in order to not have a child when they don't want one. Then there would be cases of babies that are born anyway and are extremely screwed up because of it. Like I said, we are an evolved and intelligent species. We are different from animals. We live longer lives and much more advanced meaning there are some of us that don't want children and will go through any means of making sure it doesn't happen, unlike animals that only really think "I need to survive and reproduce". It's not worth making it illegal. It's not like it effects you in any way anyway, it's not your choice to make.
You're comparing things that don't even make sense now.

Many things don't affect me. You can't deny it doesn't affect the baby, though. I'm not thinking about myself, which is exactly why I believe what I do about abortion. It's not all about the individual when it affects others (the baby).

Posted by Crono

k ur ******ed

That statement shows to me how non-credible you are. I simply stated science makes up things for what they don't know, and when a baby is considered "alive" is one of those things.  

Maybe you would all like to take this pleasant conversation about abortion to its own thread?  

Posted by PigParty

I know everyone has different opinions, and science has tried to play a part in it all and make up random stages where they consider the baby to be alive. Science should stay out of things they don't know.

I only just saw this statement when Crono quoted it and now I can see that you're beliefs about abortion probably depend on your religious beliefs, which I suspected...so that explains a lot. Now I have a follow-up: Have you ever heard of separation of church and state? That seems to be a thing the entire country forgets on a regular basis and it's annoying as hell. Not all of us are religious so why should some people have to suffer just because some other people believe "it's wrong in the eyes of god" or whatever. Science has brought us a long way and to say they don't understand what they're talking about is idiotic.  

Posted by PigParty

You're wrongly placing the responsibility on the law, when in fact the responsibility is on the enforcement of the law. Just because some women will still try to get an abortion, doesn't mean the law is flawed. It means the law enforcement is flawed. There can be many ways to go about reducing that. For example, education programs, strict no-discretion, high penalties, community involvement, etc. I never said women will follow the law every time. I said I know some won't, so that's hardly acting "like people will easilt adhere to laws." People don't adhere to the law that murder is illegal, yet you're basing your entire argument on the basis that if they still do it when it's illegal, it should be legalized. You don't think my argument is very good, but you aren't understanding how bad your argument is...

What I am saying is thus. They will still do it, and they should be able to do it in the safest way possible.

Wouldn't even respond back to me, I've already spent far too much time on this thread and shouldn't drag it farther off topic.  

Mine:
 

Posted by Areo

Wouldn't even respond back to me, I've already spent far too much time on this thread and shouldn't drag it farther off topic.

Well I mean it's not totally off topic...well maybe a little...  

Posted by Areo

What I am saying is thus. They will still do it, and they should be able to do it in the safest way possible.

Wouldn't even respond back to me, I've already spent far too much time on this thread and shouldn't drag it farther off topic.

This thread is for politics so almost anything on this thread is on-topic, haha.
There's no argument with "they will still do it." When it affects others, that's not a valid reason to keep something legal. Take for instance, prohibition. Drinking was made illegal, but everyone still did it, so they make it legal again. However, drinking while driving is still illegal, even though people do it all the time. The reasoning: drinking doesn't affect others, but drinking while driving does. Abortion falls under the 'affects others' category.

Posted by Coco

I only just saw this statement when Crono quoted it and now I can see that you're beliefs about abortion probably depend on your religious beliefs, which I suspected...so that explains a lot. Now I have a follow-up: Have you ever heard of separation of church and state? That seems to be a thing the entire country forgets on a regular basis and it's annoying as hell. Not all of us are religious so why should some people have to suffer just because some other people believe "it's wrong in the eyes of god" or whatever. Science has brought us a long way and to say they don't understand what they're talking about is idiotic.

No actually, I try to emphasize that I leave religion out of it. My statement on science applied to the creation of the world too, which one would argue is about religion, but it also applies to the dinosaurs, and many other things. I genuinely don't think they should make up theories, when in fact science is supposed to be based on fact. If you read one of my earlier posts (actually sent it today I believe...) I specifically said "I highly believe in the separation of church and state." I believe that's an exact quote. My religion has nothing to do with my political beliefs. I love the death penalty and want it more. I believe gay and lesbian couples should be able to get married. I'm for transgender people using facilities with the gender they identify as. Many of my beliefs actually contradict religious beliefs. I never once mentioned God or my religion when it pertains to my beliefs because it doesn't actually pertain to my beliefs. Yes, science doesn't understand what they're talking about sometimes. I never said they don't understand what they're talking about all the time. I said they shouldn't make things up for the things they don't understand. My religion has nothing to do with my beliefs and I actually dislike when many people I know involve their religion with their political believes because there is supposed to be a separation of church and state.  

VOTE. FOR. HILARY.

She will release those sweet sweet alien documents and allow us to make contact with them so they can share their methods of extracting fetus's from females and growing them in futuristic alien pods instead which solves the issue of abortion.

HILARY SAVES LIVES!!!

Also @ science blabber in above post, they don't just make up random things and say them, they have facts to support what they say and they can scientifically prove abortion is killing an under developed fetus and not a real baby, they fully understand this matter. When they don't understand something they don't just 'make things up' that isn't how science works.  

Posted by Colin

Also @ science blabber in above post, they don't just make up random things and say them, they have facts to support what they say and they can scientifically prove abortion is killing an under developed fetus and not a real baby, they fully understand this matter.

How do they fully understand what happened to dinosaurs, or how the world was created? When they call it an "underdeveloped fetus" it's simply using different words to say the same meaning. They kept recently pushing back when it's considered "alive," yet you think they know everything they talk about. Ha. Heck, every couple years I hear scientists say eggs are bad for you, then 2 years later they're good for you. Just another example to show that they don't know everything, yet they discuss it like they do.  

Posted by PigParty

How do they fully understand what happened to dinosaurs, or how the world was created? When they call it an "underdeveloped fetus" it's simply using different words to say the same meaning. They kept recently pushing back when it's considered "alive," yet you think they know everything they talk about. Ha. Heck, every couple years I hear scientists say eggs are bad for you, then 2 years later they're good for you. Just another example to show that they don't know everything, yet they discuss it like they do.

*facedesk*

All I can do at this point is keep my fingers crossed I suppose  

They don't claim to fully understand the creation of the world or dinosaurs, they use information they know to make theories about it and what makes the most sense but they never one have claimed they fully understand it, you obviously don't understand this simple concept so I won't derail this trying to explain it to you, but you are very wrong in your assumptions on how the scientific world works.

You obviously won't change your opinion on abortion, neither will I so I won't type out paragraphs and paragraphs about it for no reason.

At the end of the day it isn't my choice what a girl can and can't do with her body, nor is it yours, the choice is purely up to her and if she feels abortion is the best then so be it because the only person who can understand exactly what she is going through or might go through is her.