Dear Crono,

Could you please post some levels that you consider really good and not modern UN crap.

-Thanks!  

I think the answer to this is quite simple. Use the tileset as intended(use full house tiles), don't overcomplicate the detail, avoid grass on grass tiles, maintain a good flow(keep the paths the player can take open and easy to travel through), keep outlines simple(don't constantly jaggy cliffs and paths/water.  

Don't put those god damn holes or mushrooms that block the path. And remember, when was the last time you saw a band of 30 trees fused together?

You can use them as barriers and make forests without making huge unnatural tree walls.  

the point of a classic level if for it to look good, be simple, and serve a purpose. when your developing a server with actual content you really shouldnt be spending a lot of time putting heavy detail on a level. of course you want them to look good, but you dont want to have to spend a ton of time on it.  

Posted by Godzilla

the point of a classic level if for it to look good, be simple, and serve a purpose. when your developing a server with actual content you really shouldnt be spending a lot of time putting heavy detail on a level. of course you want them to look good, but you dont want to have to spend a ton of time on it.

The point of a classic level is not to put standards aside to churn stuff out faster. You can make a nice looking, simple but effective level and still put a lot of thought and detail into it.  

Log onto Classic and then log onto UN or Zodiac. There is a clear difference in the levels.  

Posted by Dusty

The point of a classic level is not to put standards aside to churn stuff out faster. You can make a nice looking, simple but effective level and still put a lot of thought and detail into it.

It's difficult to say what I'm trying to express. Basically imo classic levels should be simple, good looking, and not take hours to complete. You can still put thought and detail into them but your not raping the level with loads of unnecessary crap.  

Posted by Godzilla

It's difficult to say what I'm trying to express. Basically imo classic levels should be simple, good looking, and not take hours to complete. You can still put thought and detail into them but your not raping the level with loads of unnecessary crap.

That's like saying the point of pixel art is to create small, expressive images that make use of their limited space... and don't take hours to complete. Simplicity does not reflect effort. You can create something simple and appealing but it still takes just as much effort as something complex and detailed.  

Well you don't really want to spend hours on one level...When people are doing that on UN they can't release content very fast no matter how big their staff team is. Classic style shouldn't take that long.  

Posted by Godzilla

Well you don't really want to spend hours on one level...When people are doing that on UN they can't release content very fast no matter how big their staff team is. Classic style shouldn't take that long.

I certainly would, if that's what it takes for my level to look nice. I don't care if it delays content a little, it's better to release good content that takes more time than to rush content that sucks.

This sort of logic applies to all fields of development, not just levels.  

You two are saying the exact same thing except Godzilla wants it done faster.  

Posted by Pazx

You two are saying the exact same thing except Godzilla wants it done faster.

And I'm saying that just because classic levels look simpler, they are not simpler to make. Thus... I don't see how they are the same thing at all.  

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32787&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1158696698 (Unsupported image host)  

My eyes thank you for the thumbnail image.  

Posted by LordBryson

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=32787&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1158696698 (Unsupported image host)

Not Classic and complete garbage. I think I made that in 2005 lol.

Classic levels are distinguished by their straight-forward appearance and completely unreliant on details. It's hard to simply "draw the line", something is either relatively Classic or it isn't.

Examples would include pre-iClassic Classic, Bravo Online, Blitz's town on Enigma, and even UN's old maintown levels. I'll try to gather some screenshots to show you what I mean.

There are also modern levels that have "Classic influence", for example keeping things relatively simple. A good example of this is the swamp shop I had done that Azrael decided to ****over for no reason.
http://www.graalians.com/forums/show...6&postcount=83
Compare the beautiful level to the left to the UN butchered thing on the right.