Pay no attention to Rezon #2, he only knows what he hears the old man say.  

sorry to re-bump this, but I'm now 100% sure of what this Jigsaw girl is doing, and it's probably worth sharing so you guys know what to say when you report her

every time you see her spar, you'll notice an alternate account is also in the spar arena - this is her secondary account, on a secondary device

she uses one device to connect through an extremely laggy VPN (by my experience in spars with her, I'd estimate around 800-1200ms on average)
she spars on this account, and then she watches the screen on her secondary device (the alternate account) - this is what allows her to delay like hell, yet still spar very responsively as if she has no delay at all, somehow knowing exactly where you are

I know pretty well how delay works and how to spar against it, but I was pretty confused when I sparred her a few weeks ago and saw how her delay behaved - assumed she was hacking in some way
this is definitely what she has been doing though, this is the 3rd or 4th time I've noticed random noob accounts following her around and "watching" her spar

I'll record proof if I see it again, but I doubt she'll do it around me and I know she reads these forums
some bits of proof in spoiler tag below

Spoiler

here's the best I can provide you with right now - didn't get a good look at her delay because I was showing the accounts, but you can clearly see after the spar that she leaves queue and her secondary account magically logs off (it says her account is paused but it isn't, some visual glitch I think, it was actually moving around while it said it was still paused):

 

Posted by Thallen

sorry to re-bump this, but I'm now 100% sure of what this Jigsaw girl is doing, and it's probably worth sharing so you guys know what to say when you report her

every time you see her spar, you'll notice an alternate account is also in the spar arena - this is her secondary account, on a secondary device

she uses one device to connect through an extremely laggy VPN (by my experience in spars with her, I'd estimate around 800-1200ms on average)
she spars on this account, and then she watches the screen on her secondary device (the alternate account) - this is what allows her to delay like hell, yet still spar very responsively as if she has no delay at all, somehow knowing exactly where you are

I know pretty well how delay works and how to spar against it, but I was pretty confused when I sparred her a few weeks ago and saw how her delay behaved - assumed she was hacking in some way
this is definitely what she has been doing though, this is the 3rd or 4th time I've noticed random noob accounts following her around and "watching" her spar

I'll record proof if I see it again, but I doubt she'll do it around me and I know she reads these forums
some bits of proof in spoiler tag below

Spoiler

here's the best I can provide you with right now - didn't get a good look at her delay because I was showing the accounts, but you can clearly see after the spar that she leaves queue and her secondary account magically logs off (it says her account is paused but it isn't, some visual glitch I think, it was actually moving around while it said it was still paused):

That player was paused tho. The visual glitch for pause is rare.
Plus next time you record, can you do a voice over so i know whats going on?  

Posted by Colin

There isn't really a method to detect VPN's an iP from a VPN is the same as a normal iP.

Not exactly...
Detecting VPNs is possible.  

While we are on the topic, I'm sure most of you know who MisaChan is on here and it turns out she actually has pretty good spar stats (her IGN is Teemo)

However, when I sparred against her and saw her spar I noticed she was moving nearly double the speed of the average player and when I asked how she said she overclocked her PC. I don't really know much about it but I am pretty sure overclocking would not give you that much of a speed boost.

Posted by Powder

Not exactly...
Detecting VPNs is possible.

VPN detection is probably something too advanced for Graal servers (can't really see them implementing it as if they planned to they probably would have done it by now)  

Posted by Colin

While we are on the topic, I'm sure most of you know who MisaChan is on here and it turns out she actually has pretty good spar stats (her IGN is Teemo)

However, when I sparred against her and saw her spar I noticed she was moving nearly double the speed of the average player and when I asked how she said she overclocked her PC. I don't really know much about it but I am pretty sure overclocking would not give you that much of a speed boost.

my friend David was running on a desktop with CPU and GPU both overclocked when Facebook first came to iClassic, and when he would play on Internet Explorer (no other browser) he would be insanely fast

he was banned for speed hacking for it, then they ended up revising their speed hacking detection and somewhere along the line he ended up never having that same problem again - I don't know exactly what was changed

I'm overclocked right now and I am the standard speed so I'm about 99.9% sure that issue doesn't exist anymore, so anyone using that excuse is probably BSing hard

a lot of people pull out the "I'm on an Alienware PC" excuse to justify speed hacking

Posted by Powder

Not exactly...
Detecting VPNs is possible.

there are public repositories that dump hundreds of thousands of known VPN IPs, but it's hard to stay updated with those and banning them could show some complications

if Graal ever really wanted to take on VPN usage (which I'm sure they don't, since it isn't some huge issue), they would geolocate and timestamp the IP that accesses your account - if an IP from the United States accesses your account in the same hour as an IP from China, then that's obviously a red flag and clear sign of someone doing something they probably shouldn't be

that's why, in some other thread, I was trying to suggest that profile flags remain locked to your current IP geolocation - it wouldn't prevent people from using VPNs, but at least they'd be publicly shamed and pointed out if they were doing it in spars or towers  

admins gave up reading this thread. If u go to page 6, those posts are very irrelevant to the topic, none of moderators bother to read & delete it.

if jigsaw gets banned, ill give all da crdits to sarah. so mbk STFU F*G MTRF
ye  

bump, just a side note:
I sparred sarah few days ago, measured her delay, her delay was less than <.1-.2s. she was definitely hittable and I made her to .5 on the second try. On the other hand Jigsaw decides to stick with side room sparring and her record is 491-37 (comparing to the video). How does she get 37 losses? 90% of the time she got warped/lagged out. (rofl)

MBK im bored, u shuld come bak & play wit me agein plz  

finally sent in a pretty lengthy support ticket about this today
was pretty polite to her, asked her multiple times to just stop doing it and she went on about how Graal is "just a passtime" for her and she "doesn't care"
but as I type this, she's in the Battle Arena sulking with 4 other people about how the game has treated her so unfairly

we'll see what staff decide to do
most pathetic part is that when (or if) she gets banned, somehow it will all be Sarah's fault and half of the sparring community will revolt against her for absolutely no reason

durrr, hate Sarah, she's the devil, Jigsaw did nothing wrong
good ol' iClassic  

Posted by Fulgore

VPN=no different than normal lag=still able to spar against it

This is like complaining because you lost a spar to someone in France. It's the same exact way of sparring. If someone wants to inhibit themselves with VPN fine, it only hurts them (and weak sparrers who can't handle the minimal strategy in swinging ahead)

Posted by Fulgore

VPN is normal because it just adds lag. If you're on pc, go download a game on Steam and play graal. It has the same effect. I'm not saying I can beat her, never implied it, but if I lost I wouldn't make a thread about it.

My personal advice is to find a close friend of yours who does indeed lag, and practice with him/her. It helps hone prediction skills, and then you can go beat her and the problem will be solved at it's root

Posted by Hikaru

Just time your hits, no need to complain about lag/delay. I always fight delayers and laggers, I used to be bad against them, now it's easy to beat them just takes time and practice. Delayers are not impossible to hit, you just have to time your hits correctly based on where you think they will go next (hit earlier than usual to where they will go)

I have always wanted to make a tutorial video on how to spar, but I feel too lazy.

Posted by Fulgore

If delay is such a big advantage why aren't you wanting to learn?

^-- you guys should have a talk with your leader.--v SAD


When people complaing about sarah it's bad(according to alumni leader), but when he cries about jigsaw it's ok.

Posted by Thallen

finally sent in a pretty lengthy support ticket about this today
was pretty polite to her, asked her multiple times to just stop doing it and she went on about how Graal is "just a passtime" for her and she "doesn't care"
but as I type this, she's in the Battle Arena sulking with 4 other people about how the game has treated her so unfairly

we'll see what staff decide to do
most pathetic part is that when (or if) she gets banned, somehow it will all be Sarah's fault and half of the sparring community will revolt against her for absolutely no reason

durrr, hate Sarah, she's the devil, Jigsaw did nothing wrong
good ol' iClassic

 

He isn't crying over it, none of us are really.

However, Jigsaw is using two devices to purposely cheat and to people in the Spar community that is something none of us find acceptable and that is why we care about Jigsaw but do not mind if it happens from Sarah because Sarah can not do anything to fix it whereas Jigsaw can. (and in all honesty, Sarah doesn't even lag/delay a majority of the time)

GOAT, I am pretty sure you don't spar so it would be pointless to try and explain the situation to you because you just won't understand where we are coming from so it is best if you just stop trying to argue in every spar thread.  

Posted by GOAT

^-- you guys should have a talk with your leader.--v SAD


When people complaing about sarah it's bad(according to alumni leader), but when he cries about jigsaw it's ok.

The VPN isn't the problem, it's the use of two devices at once to give an unfair advantage. Of all people to cry about any sort of delay, artificial or not, it wouldn't be Thallen, or anyone in Alumni for that matter. This is why you see us often agreeing on a subject such as this, because none of us complain when we lose to something aside from legitimate cheating (use of multiple devices at once, speedhacking, invincibility, health hack, etc).  

Posted by Fulgore

The VPN isn't the problem, it's the use of two devices at once to give an unfair advantage. Of all people to cry about any sort of delay, artificial or not, it wouldn't be Thallen, or anyone in Alumni for that matter. This is why you see us often agreeing on a subject such as this, because none of us complain when we lose to something aside from legitimate cheating (use of multiple devices at once, speedhacking, invincibility, health hack, etc).

This doesnt influence the mechanics of the game like everything you mentioned, so how is this cheating? If you "time her hits" or "adapt to her movement" like some of you have claimed, what she does on her side shouldnt matter.

Posted by Colin

He isn't crying over it, none of us are really.

However, Jigsaw is using two devices to purposely cheat and to people in the Spar community that is something none of us find acceptable and that is why we care about Jigsaw but do not mind if it happens from Sarah because Sarah can not do anything to fix it whereas Jigsaw can. (and in all honesty, Sarah doesn't even lag/delay a majority of the time)

GOAT, I am pretty sure you don't spar so it would be pointless to try and explain the situation to you because you just won't understand where we are coming from so it is best if you just stop trying to argue in every spar thread.

I just explained it to fulgore, so please amuse with a good reply.  

Posted by GOAT

This doesnt influence the mechanics of the game like everything you mentioned, so how is this cheating? If you "time her hits" or "adapt to her movement" like some of you have claimed, what she does on her side shouldnt matter.





I just explained it to fulgore, so please amuse with a good reply.

I'm pretty sure it's clear that if this can be done without consequence there are fundamental issues in Graal. The difference between this and doing something like VPN is the fact that VPN makes oneself lag, which is stupid and pointless, while using this coupled with it breaks the game. Any argument against that is just for the sake of arguing or attempting to troll me, because a 5 year old can see clearly that it 100% breaks the game.  

Idk about all of you, but I have been wanting to spar her. I was beating her in facebook arena last time. I wonder how difficult she is now if she wasn't using this "double device" method. I really want to see for myself how tough she is I love sparring tough people. Especially the cheaters.