Rules
Lets be clear just because im staff doesnt mean my ideas will be implemented. However maybe if we come up with a decent solution we might be able to see it in the future.
Also please lets be decent here no swearing here
If you agree tell me why if you disagree you have even more of a duty to tell me why im wrong.
If you have any ideas please share them the only way we can get down to the bottom of this is by disscussing it.
The problem
Some of you guys think your words dont make a difference, I think your guys words do make a diffrence however alot of the time, when it comes to issues, if good solutions arent presented nothing is done. I agree and i think 99% of ol west agrees the current basing system as a whole is flawed in multiple ways. Gp of course fitting in that categorey, and o boy the ammount of times players ask staff about this so lets talk about it everyone
Heres a big challenge for developers designing any system how do we find the proper balance between rewarding your average player, and preventing your dedicated player from collecting ridiculous amounts of points.

Originaly the concept behind gp points is to reward players for contributing to basing and to incentiviize it. However afking in a base isnt really defending it and we all agreed players included that we needed something else. So we changed it to kills.

Now the thing with kills is that for your average player who (honestly) isnt as talented as regular pkers it might take a while before you get your item of choice (probably doorknocker or crystal bow ) but for someone whos pretty good at pking it may take them alot quicker.

But this system points to another problem probably the biggest flaw in the basing system, which is the actual gangs participating. Ol west has this strange culture of creating "peace" between gangs. And that REALLY hurts basing as a whole it kills most competition for basing because your most established gangs form peace and then each will hold a tower while all the middle of the pack and small gangs dont stand a chance.(Isnt the whole point of gangs to not conform to social rules, and to dominate others)

We tried to introduce a system that frowns upon peace by making the bases timed and only opening a few that way it forces the gangs to hurry and take bases and to fight others if they want a spot ( also it stoped 50 people from afking in a base giving the illusion of a well defended base) however this system had some issues as well. In some cases it broke peace in gangs and forced them to fight but more often then not the big gangs would just again each take a base and then rotate. This made it EVEN HARDER for the little guys. ( honestly i liked this system more from a pkers stand point. It was easier to get kills because you know where everyone was or you could just wait until the time was up then rush to the new base and just pk everyone hiting the safe.)

But after alot of complaints and not much progress on the peaceing standpoint it was reverted. So as you can see its a pretty complex issue to find a good balance. One of the main reasons why is we have to find ways to discourage "peace" between gangs its a real issue, not just foe the basing system but from a game play standpoint. Ive personaly witnessed multiple times gangs try and break the peace, and immediately the harassment, blackmailing, and vulgarity is so bad that staff have to step in. Which discourages others from trying.

Honestly the gp money is in the big gangs immagine if they didnt peace those players would be killing each other all day and people would join just for pking which would spark alot of life into that and help the gp issue a bit.

One more thing before i move on to possible solutions, the thing with gp items is ( there suppose to take a while to get surprise!!) There suppose to be cosmetic items to show ofd to your compadres and amigos or just serve as momentos of a long journey with your base. THEY SHOULD NOT TAKE 1 DAY, 1 WEEK, 2 WEEKS TO OBTAIN. ( sorry instant gratification generation no cookies for you now your gonna have to work for it)

Solutions & Info

Soooo with all that out the way lets talk solutions or just talk in general. Whats my oppinion on the matter? Well honestly i think 1 gp is fair with enough people and patience you can obtain your goal. But the thing is only 1 base is worth pking and thats ( you guessed it) the bank for obvious reasons. Incase you live under a rock or dont play olwest the bank is the only tower that gives u 2 entrances to the base 1 the front door but the second gives u direct access right to the safe room which makes it ALOT faster to pk. Which is good for the people holding the base they get gp and pkers they get gp so everyones happy. But the other bases are barron wastelands.
(Tldr; bank is best gp base and i think 1 gp per kill)

I think we should naybe try and make gp just that gp. Currently you only get it from basing but what if it was added to other things like lets say. The arena. If you look at the arena everyone joins a gang in order to win so why not encourage gangs to gp with it? However basing should be the main way of gaining gp in order to encourage basing, so gp from arena should be given in either 1/2 or 1/4 a gp per kill ( considering arena is every hour) . im not too sure about gang spar though cause well...... Boosting.

As of right now those are my thoughts on all of that. In order to save your poor eyes from reading a few more paragraphs ill list some other thoughts i have down as well.

My ideas
1. Gp from battle arena 1/2 or 1/4 per kill
2. Change bases to make them have entrances to safe room
3. Remove some bases ( this will stop that peace)
4. Change bases so. They cant hide behind walls
5. NO HEALING IN BASES
( its really discouraging when you just barely dont get a kill then everyone heals, this would also make defending bases harder, and make more gangs attack. Because they will actually have a chance to take a base)
6. Develop a 5step program and rehab center for gang leaders who peace gangs.
(Huehue i jest)  

The peace culture on ol’ west is such cancer but if the only solution was to reduce the number of bases then the smaller guys would be squeezed even harder.
I really like the base changes and the no healing idea.  

Hm ya i think the removing of healing esspecialy will force people to stop afking else theyll just get pkes super hard on the other hand it really wony help lttle guys much either but it will makr the top more competetive but u cant win all battles  

Could just implement that thing again where like two bases get closed for some time. Would make basing much harder, and if people did peace then they probably wont be able to get a base.

What was wrong with this?

(Although could make it harder for newer gang to get into basing, resulting in just a few large gangs peacing again).  

Implement something like the mine, if you are afk/don't move for 30 seconds you get warped outside.  

Posted by Perseus

Implement something like the mine, if you are afk/don't move for 30 seconds you get warped outside.

I think they already have something like that. I havent based in ages, but im pretty sure people get kicked out of base if they are afking.  

How To Fix Basing: (Your Welcome)

1. Turn Hs and Gp shops into cosmetics
2. Make New Gun Shops with the old Gp and Hs items
3. Nerf .45 There shouldnt be no gun like that in the game
4. Can only hold a base for 2 hours before having to move to a new one
5. 15 gang player limit
6. Remove 1.5k hat with 1.5k accessory instead
7. Gp back to minutes since itll be for cosmetics instead
8. REDUE ALL BASES LAYOUTS EVERY 6 MONTHS
9. Unique tileset for each base

 

Posted by TomatoPanda

How To Fix Basing: (Your Welcome)

1. Turn Hs and Gp shops into cosmetics
2. Make New Gun Shops with the old Gp and Hs items
3. Nerf .45 There shouldnt be no gun like that in the game
4. Can only hold a base for 2 hours before having to move to a new one
5. 15 gang player limit
6. Remove 1.5k hat with 1.5k accessory instead
7. Gp back to minutes since itll be for cosmetics instead
8. REDUE ALL BASES LAYOUTS EVERY 6 MONTHS
9. Unique tileset for each base

I dont understand how some of these things will help basing at all. Can u explain it to me please. Turning hs and hp items cosmetic thats something i agree with but not for the basing reason thats getting into another topic. I dont see how nerfing 45 will help basing much either if anything it could harm it because pkers use it too, replacing a hat with an accessory i dont see hoe that would help much. Getting a smaller reward tends to disincentivize players not encourage them. Well actually accessorys are pretty cool if u really know what to do. Having a 15 player gang limit would severly hurt alot of the casual and social guilds as well. Plus almost no base has all 15 members in a base at once most gangs have a set likd 5 man lead and the other 10 are kicked and recurited so it wouldnt stop anyone. Having a unique tileset teally doesnt help anything either.... I mean sure theyll be prettier but even so. If you spend thousands of hours in it the nee tiles will be boring. And redoing all bases every 6 months is kinda overkill its more important to find a balanced layout thats timeless  

Posted by Pikahika~

Rules
Rewarding your average player, and preventing your dedicated player from collecting ridiculous amounts of points.

That's the sort of democratic mentality we need less of... is the very reason this game is "bombing": UNDERLYING FEMINISTIC-ATTRACTION QUALITIES THAT HAVE RESULTED IN A MORE HARMONIOUSLY-TEMPERED COMMUNITY; AND UNDER MORE MASCULINE CONDITIONS, MAY HAVE NATURALLY ELIMINATED THESE BASING "FLAWS", WITHOUT NEEDING TO IMPLY FURTHER PARAMETERS.

(I know I'm notorious for text spams, but I can assure you that every matter I discuss here will shed some much-needed light on this dimly-lit issue, in a fashionably neutral manner... provided that you're intelligently-willed enough to read it.)

The number of passive "tough shell, soft core" children I've come across in this game has been astounding! Even in its current status, I believe that these basing "flaws" wouldn't have manifested themselves if the majority of this community diplayed some "backbone" (which I'd say 99.9% of the legit backbone kids are spending their weekends playing real videogames).

^ The other 0.1% can be found in the spar house, adding another flawless round to their (already 15k+) spar wins.

Pika, man. Straight up, I hate it when kids come on my feed and go all Negative-Nancy, so please know that I'm not here to sow anarchy; rather I've had a deep annoyance with this issue (or rather, "basing" society)- nearly from the 'get go'- and will take every opportunity to speak about it.

So what I'm saying is that, if you were to take a gang of FPS console gamers, and stick them in West... THERE WOULD ONLY BE WAR lol..... to explain this further... a game that offers strictly an aggressive experience will attract aggressive players, and a game that offers a more passive experience (take, of course, Graal in this instance- which is based on socialism: meeting friends, hat/furniture-buying, farming, fishing, holiday events) WILL TEND TO ATTRACT PASSIVE PLAYERS!

^ I'm a more artsy passive guy. My brother is a more logical aggressive guy. I've spent more time playing Graal. He's spent more time playing Gears of War.

Perhaps then, this "problem" does lie within the game? But if you want a genuine male-ideology driven experience, then you'll have to stop offering cute Easter hats (which are bound to attract the 12yr old Animal Crossing girls... the ones who have "gummed up" past bases by AFKing for GP... and the ones who are morally content with blasting you in the back with a pump shotty).

"Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater", I believe is a proper quote here.

Kudos for bringing this subject in the open again, Pika, but I feel like I'm (for lack of a less-colorful-phrase) "Watching you attempt to zap a two-week-deceased horse back to life with a cattle-prod!" In what (four years?) this game has been running, no significant development... other than that time with the 3-base rotation... and even then, Silence still squatted it out like a boss.

What genuine help I can provide is this:

[#1]. Stop the OP weapons.

Any GP spent should go strictly for cosmetic items, i.e. Gun skins or high-quality apparel-- of which is intensely lacking at the GP cave-- (also, I posted a more progressive thought about the use of GP in my images below)

This will allow for developers to create a stable combat system that gravitates around a core set of weapons; and also will prevent them from running themselves + the art department + the community in a circle of constant, newly-introduced, flawed holiday/special event weapon-variables.

^ this principal is found in every commercially-marketed videogame, so why not apply it to West?

FACT: West is, sooner or later, doomed to be an entire community of either Crystal Bow or HS-weapon users..... this is just the equivalent of (an otherwise) community of .45-users with additional flawed mechanics.

That, in my opinion, should be your first priority.

Posted by Pikahika~

RulesOriginaly the concept behind gp points is to reward players for contributing to basing and to incentiviize it.

I've recently been studying marketing, entrepreneurship; taking lectures and reading books from a professor of metaphysics and psychoanalysis..... I can genuinely say that these elements apply to Ol' West's case.

[#2]: Supply and demand, baby!

The old horse and carrot trick. You've got to keep a fresh carrot in front of the community's nose at all times- close enough to not discourage, but far enough to prevent laxness.

The Staff was definitely on the right track by limiting bases. It was more of a BASING remedy, rather than this size S band-aid "GP for Pk" (which is more likely to entice Pk, but does minimally in terms of gang peace treaties). If gangs ever have a member-Pk uproar, it just ends in apologies- probably some bored, random noob wearing last-night's leftover tag.

How to make the fat-cat gangs fight?

One answer:
Limited quantity of something desirable that can only be obtained by means of aggressive action towards one another.

So what if.... you had an exclusive item at the end of a short-term basing period... something like a 'perpetual Gang Hat'?... See? It's no surprise that everyone gets chummy with a gang that's nearing the 1.5k... why not use this same idea to fuel gang wars?

Say, at the end of every 2 weeks/or month, you reward A SINGLE "Top Basing Gang Item" to the highest-scoring gang. Much like the Gralat-incentive for doing Arena... I personally found it much more inciting to attend...

ONE ITEM. This tactic would insure NO peaces- even between two gangs (because if you were democratic enough to supply two monthly-basing items, obviously gangs would double-ally and war)... unless you'd like to have double-gang wars?

You could easily control and test this:
One item = Battle Royale.
Two Items = Gangs would obviously peace their friends, and would likely result in a 2v2 gang war
Three Items = Too many, considering the number of bases... and a 3v3 ally gang war might get a tad messy.

I think this could prove fool-proof. Even if two ally gangs doubled on the leading gang, the two ally gangs would eventually be forced to fight each other for the one monthly item.

.....

[#3]. Lastly- if you'll permit me to state a personal desire- I'd like to see West's passive audience be enticed to spar.

You could do this by a few means:

1. Remove the Spar W-L tally, and only tally the Wins.

^ I am aware that this is less competitive, but it's sure-as-hell better than that crap-heap of a dead spar house. Personally, I don't see how tallying Wins AND Losses is much different than only tallying Wins?... would your opinion of the following two players change drastically if it read: Billy with W-2,000 & L-200... and Todd with W-200 & L-2,000..... V.s. if they were to have simply displayed: Billy W-2,000, and Todd W-200.

^ Personally, I think it takes far less away from Billy, and gives Todd far more incentive to keep sparring. (Todd should stop chatting about cat videos at Start and go shoot people fr haha).

2. Host a hierarchy of hat rewards for spar wins... and none of this "10,000 SPAR WIN HAT" garbage... I'm speaking of TRUE incentive- in increments of 1, 5, 20, 50, 100, etc.

^ this would surely get the community to try some spar

Posted by Pikahika~

Rules
6. Develop a 5step program and rehab center for gang leaders who peace gangs.
(Huehue i jest)

"Huehue" I don't. It's a bigger issue that exists outside of a mediocre phone game.

It means that this future generation will grow up weaker than the last.

"We don't keep score here. Everybody's a winner!"

^ This doesn't do any good for us as a species. Healthy competition and failure only makes us stronger as individuals.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

-Whippy  

Woe thats alot lemme take this in chunks  

Oh neat basing discussions. Ill give my perspective and ideas about how things currently are when i finish work (theres alot to read here hooley dooley)  

*grabs Pika's cattle prod and tosses it to the catfish

*walks away

Posted by Pikahika~

Rules
Some of you guys think your words dont make a difference, I think your guys words do make a diffrence however alot of the time, when it comes to issues, if good solutions arent presented nothing is done.

 

Wow i typed this huge reply to his post and got logged out and didnt get to post it kill me
Well tldr whippy. We arent trying ti make our server male dominance because that would alieanate a huge portain of our playerbase and being "manly" doesnt make things right. For example the manly thing to do would be to make pking enabled everywhere but thats im sure u could see a horrible idea.
Sparing has nothing to do eith the disscussion i would like to see that cimmunity be more active but its off topic
Ur idea with the basing rewards for #1 gang is interesting and has some merit but needs some fleshing out. I agree gp weapons should be cosmetic but again thats a diffrent topic.
Just because im reopening an already much discussed topic doesnt make it bad i just wana. Find solutions i said why nothing was changed and how we have yet to find good solutions
Again bringing in fps players and girl players. And girly cosemetics is completely off topic.
You also make it painfully obvious you dont like this generation of kids. Or players and your entitled to your opinnion how ever its important that you remember thats not something we can control we arent really there parents. The challenge for us developers is to create a game that can function regardless of the playerbase that decides to jump in.  

Pika hes right though to fix west basing its gonna take more then a different basing reward system to fix you gotta understand people are BORED no other game is like graal when it comes to guns that ive played. When I get home in 30 min ill explain to you in a less aggressive way then whippy.

Whippy when did you turn conservative boi welcome to the club  

How to fix basing?

Fixing basing is gonna take more then just changing the system and ending peacing. People on graal including me and many ex players are BORED with the same stuff over and over again. To fix basing its gonna take 3 things, A Guns Admin, Gun/Bow skins, and a entirely new reward system.

What does having a new Guns Admin have to do with basing?
Guns have EVERYTHING to do with basing. The problem west has that its guns system is Quantity over Quality. A Quanitity over Quality system is fun for a couple years in a game but it gets very dull after a while and annoying to players to have to remember 400 different guns on the servers stats. Dont even get me started on the fact that 3/4 of the guns have nothing to do with the servers theme. What needs to happen is a complete redue on guns the Tier system does not work and it only enforces Hours of grinding gp and hs that doesn't even make unixmad money cause you cant buy Gp and Hs. Ol'West needs to go back to focusing on gralats which I will talk more about in gun skins. All Weapons in the Hs and Gp shop need to be removed from players and the shops. West needs to move more in the direction of making every guns stats UNIQUE and to make it so all guns are balanced. Doing this would have to involve a class system which best example i can think of is COD. There shouldn't be no more then 20-30 guns in the game split up in classes like:

• Pistols: Semi or Automatic with Low Damage but little reload and shooting freeze
• Shotguns: multi-bullets shot at once with different freeze, damage and spread
• Automatic: hold the shooting pad and different burst patterns come out. (Freeze, clip size and damage can be unique).
• Semi-Automatic: hold the shooting pad and 1 bullet comes out then stops till you reclick the pad. (Freeze, clip size, and damg can be unique)
• Snipers: Big damage and Faster/Bigger bullets when shot, Big Reload timer and freeze
• Special: Splash Damage guns like firework launcher and Boomerangs

Bows and Guns would use this class system dont be confused by the names

What do Gun/Bow Skins have to do with basing?
Gun/Bow Skins would be the way how unixmad will keep making money off Ol'West from Guns if not more money. Graals biggest feature is Customization and instead of having 400 guns/bows we can have Gun/Bow Skin shops for a smaller amount of unique guns/bows but can still look hawt with cool different looking skins B). There will need to be 12 main Gun/Bow Shops to actually buy the guns (not the skin shops) 6 shops on the cowboy side of the map to resemble guns seperated by the 6 classes and same for bows on the Indian side of the map. Im sure focusing on skins for the same 20-30 guns/bows would also be easier to pump out from the gfx artist then trying to make 400 goofy looking guns/bows. (Lol 3 ice bows in game rn)


If all is done properly with the classes system and the skin shops the skill element of pking would be back with unixmad still making $. (I recommend to make every gun not skin but gun be 20k-50k gralats but must be the same for all weapons)

New Reward System
Now that competition is put back into pking with a new guns system based off of skill of the game and not grinding hs and gp we can finally get to a new reward system.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Basically what Whippy said before make basing a monthly/seasonal competition for a reward like a hat or accessory and that would fix the peacing problem. You could keep the Rewards that are over 10k hours and probably still be fine and have no peacing problem or you could make the 10k Hideout reward a yearly hour competition just in case.
Deffently remove the 1.5k hats, 4k mount, and 7k hat reward and replace with the monthly/seasonal competition if you instead keep a hideout as a 10k hour reward and not a yearly reward


More ideas to encourage basing and to keep it fun

• Unique tileset for each base
• Could bring back the 2 base closing system that we had before till playercount rises
• Get the LATs to change all bases layouts every 6-12 months
• Different kinds of dynamite like era has with gas grenades
• when creating a gang make it an option to have it be a social or basing gang. if its social membercount can be over 100 for all I care but the gang cant participate in BA, Spar, and Basing or ally any basing gang, also could make the membercount higher or lower on basing gangs to best fit the servers player count at any time.

I hope you like the ideas pika oof good luck finding a developer to create these systems though if you guys do decide to do this.