Classic is the best yall look at all these scripts, gani, graphics all that stuff. And theyre actually constantly updating  

Posted by Saber Alumba

Off topic here but the dungeon thing kinda remind me the binding of Isaac which is a very entertaining game and If something like that was ever implemented into the classic server I would probably never stop playing it

It was heavily inspired by Binding of Isaac. I think BoI's core gameplay is the perfect sort of thing that a game like Classic needs for replayability in an online environment.

Posted by Weeno

Classic is the best yall look at all these scripts, gani, graphics all that stuff. And theyre actually constantly updating

This isn't about quality, or what server is better. I'm simply explaining the process Classic has to go through to make new content, and why content can take a while compared to other MMO's which are developed with recycling in mind.

Also why the content it does get can be seen as "empty" compared to other servers. We could give players plenty of content if we could release shops with actual numbers behind them. Hats are useless and cosmetic, but on Era a gun is literally the same thing... but you can put numbers alongside them and players will pay 2 million gralats for what's essentially a skin. Yeah, it's not just graphics, but Classic has no equivalent. We have no stats, no complex RPG system, no gun system. We can't tempt players with more damage or faster shooting speed or better defense. But whose fault is that? No one's, that's just the way the server is. But it's rough.  

Posted by Dusty

<post #7>

-Quest problem> I have no problem with getting items that have little usage after the quest is complete. Zelda does this all the time. Halfway through the quest you get an item you need to complete the other half of the quest. The important part is requiring the item's usage during the quest itself, and not giving the item at the end. Then the end prize can be the hat, bomb skin, whatever. As for using the hammer after the quest; instead of just blocking a few chests, wooden stakes could also block paths to new points of interest that are likely to be visited multiple times (places similar to crab game, Mercator's, etc; and the stakes reappear when you leave the overworld).

-Multiplayer Dungeons> [if this ever happens] Instead of having a party system, i think it would be more appropriate for it to be guild-based. As for the number of participants, allow 2-(whatever maximum you want) to start the dungeon; just design puzzles for a fixed number of people; and each puzzle can be made for a different fixed number of people. If you enter the dungeon with only 2 people, and there's a puzzle that requires 4 people, you'll have to realize this yourself and retry when you have more people. If you have 6 people, and a puzzle for 4; I dont see the problem with 2 people sitting out for one room. Or to have a puzzle made for a variable number of people, have "x" number of people complete the puzzle when everyone else is fighting off enemies from interfering.  

Posted by Dusty

Some baddy AI is unique, but all of it? Therein lies the problem. How much do you have to do when you want to create a new baddy, in general, for an RPG server? I'm not talking about that one baddy that has a new skill, but what about a common baddy that's just there for players to grind on? A boss is not a common occurrence, but you make it sound like making a boss is a lot of work... and I don't doubt that it is. In fact, I agree. It's unique, and only one per dungeon? Now imagine the time it takes to make a boss on Delteria... that's the time it takes to make every single baddy on Classic. Because nearly every single baddy is unique.

And I didn't say making a mount and making a baddy is the same thing, but it's a good portion of the work for any RPG. If I had an RPG dungeon... let's say the first cave the player enters has rats. Rats are common enemies. On an MMO fighting that rat would be simple. You hit it, and it aggros at you and chases you. It either chases you, or runs away, and sometimes attacks. Creating that first baddy that uses that sort of AI would be hard. But let's say 50 levels later there is a new area. And a new bigger rat. What do I need to change to make this new bigger rat worth a level 50 player? I'll make a new graphic for it of course, one that looks like a large rat. Maybe make it look rough and tough. But if it has the same stats as the rat from the first cave what good is it? So I give it more health, more strength, maybe a little faster, slightly more defense. Yeah I might have to balance it but that's just tweaking some numbers. Maybe I'll give it a rare drop, "Rat's Claw". A giant rat claw tied to a stick. Melee weapons already exist so I'll just add a new melee weapon with a new graphic. Stats will have to be balanced, but again, tweaking of numbers until they're right. Even then you can release it and tweak it later if you really need to. And add a new ability? Maybe I'll make the rat spawn smaller rats from the first cave. Pretty easy imo. Maybe I'll make it do something more unique... maybe a spell. Why would a rat need a spell? I dunno but it's the most complex thing I can think of that a baddy would need that's unique. I'll give it meteor storm. I can probably make a meteor storm in a few hours.

All in all, a completely new baddy, mostly relying on systems that already exist and needing to fill in the gaps. Even the most unique things needed to create this new baddy isn't that much compared to Classic's process:
- New graphics
- New behavior design, concept, and ideas
- Scripting said behavior and AI from scratch. This includes its walking pattern, its chasing pattern, its attacking pattern, as well as wall collision and anti-sticking methods. A baddy stuck in a wall is a useless baddy since once they're stuck they're not going to unstick themselves unless they respawn. There's little in the way of attacking a baddy in a wall on Classic, so we try to avoid this as best as possible. Sometimes still happens sadly due to lag, but it will respawn with little loss.

We could just take the already existing rat baddy and make another rat with different stats but on Classic there's no reason to do that. Baddies only drop gralats. They don't give experience, they don't give loot. So on Classic the only worth-while reason to add a new baddy is for variety, and because it's more fitting for a new area. Destiny has a beach, the most logical baddy we should put there were crabs. Crabs were especially complicated because they can dig underground and resurface to align with players and try to get in a swift attack. It wouldn't have made much since to put a reskinned rat on the Destiny beach.

And what do players get for this new crab? Nothing, baddy kills. If it dropped loot it would be a much more rewarding experience for players don't you think? But there's little we can reward players for grinding, and grinding is a very easy method of gameplay to design for.

Even if you aspire to have more fulfilling content for an RPG content, which you may... you don't have to. You have a choice! Say you're working on a big dungeon and let's assume it does have lots of unique content and work put into it. But months have passed, well-deserved months of work. But still, months, and players are becoming restless. If you really want to, you can push out a filler dungeon to keep them happy for a while until the big stuff is done. It might take a few weeks or even a month to do, but you can cut corners. Leave out the unique stuff, but still give players something to do and they'll be happy. There isn't anything like that on Classic. At all.

So what? The only thing classic can do from now on to not put stress on the server is to make mounts and hats since its something that isnt necessarily new but rather something with the same properties and same stress? Sorry for not being able to write paragraphs right now Im cooking and will try to write something up more comprehensive later. But honestly everytime you just mention that there is too much stress on the server, with the income that eurocenter makes shouldnt you guys be able to expand your server or have a seperatre server just for say dungeons or an expansion of the GMAP

Edit: https://sensortower.com/ios/us/toons...ic/350608510/#

According to this Toonslab Makes 30k+ just on Classic+ and another 5k+ on Classic. Im not sure how much servers cost but should it be enough?  

Make some cooler event system(like a event lobby with events running every hour and points to it, dk??) and I'll be happy happy happy  

Posted by Nanner

Make some cooler event system(like a event lobby with events running every hour and points to it, dk??) and I'll be happy happy happy

The thing is you don't want to make events too common as right now at least for me they server as a rare chance to obtain a hat that not many people have. If this because a farmable system then I think it would kinda take the whole point away. However I do agree that as it stands the event system should have more depth to it.  

The procedural dungeon idea thing should be puzzle based like Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinstrals

It had this crazy puzzle dungeon

God I loved those goofy mazes...

Even populated with purple loot chests... I would tear something like that up daily

It's fun to pretend and dream that it's easy sometimes  

Instead of rewarding players with hats and gralats why not have annoying npcs like on un
could work well with the current system we have.
Personally I think the server should be focused around guild activity.
I know the classic system is hard to work with the best thing to do is to replace it with a system like zodiac or delteria but that would be a very hard transition as a lot of the servers content is based around the classic systems limited capabilities.

Adding dungeons that have similar puzzles to zelda with an option to either invite a friend,guild member or do it alone would be great.
I also think that re-adding the old towers would be nice maybe make them look a bit better and making it so that
A guild member in the guild that owns a tower gains money whenever people buy something in that town.
Around 20% of the price.  

Posted by Sardon

Instead of rewarding players with hats and gralats why not have annoying npcs like on un
could work well with the current system we have.
Personally I think the server should be focused around guild activity.
I know the classic system is hard to work with the best thing to do is to replace it with a system like zodiac or delteria but that would be a very hard transition as a lot of the servers content is based around the classic systems limited capabilities.

Adding dungeons that have similar puzzles to zelda with an option to either invite a friend,guild member or do it alone would be great.
I also think that re-adding the old towers would be nice maybe make them look a bit better and making it so that
A guild member in the guild that owns a tower gains money whenever people buy something in that town.
Around 20% of the price.

Everytime I open an iClassic thread hoping for a decent thread I see you constantly going on about UN.
It's a dead server get over it.  

Posted by ReD s.

Everytime I open an iClassic thread hoping for a decent thread I see you constantly going on about UN.
It's a dead server get over it.

Why don't YOU get over your vendetta and stop derailing threads so you can self amuse with your toxicity.  

Posted by Zideruic

Why don't YOU get over your vendetta and stop derailing threads so you can self amuse with your toxicity.

Elaborate what you mean by vendetta, I haven't used the forums in over 2 months but ok.  

Posted by Weeno

Classic is the best yall look at all these scripts, gani, graphics all that stuff. And theyre actually constantly updating

ganis are basically all reskins because this game is mainly based around cosmetics. the only updates theyre getting are hats and mounts  

Love that dungeon idea. There even could be an underwater component... different dungeon tilesets (eg the lava set we don't see anywhere but in a house layout right now), and who knows what all... difficulty levels... leaderboards... races... the sky is really the limit. Looking forward to seeing if anything comes of it!  

Imo you should stop doing a queue for eveny and tell admins to put warpers so event involve more skills and not luck (not gonna talk about chance).If i wanted to try me chance out i would just go play the lottery.  

I'm 99% sure he has thought about all these things that you guys have said but the problem isn't the development, it's what the servers can/can't handle

The pathfinding dungeon thing is great and a real shame that something like that will probably never happen due to Unix. I mean really what must suck more is that you (Dusty) have SUCH a passion alongside the others (Coco, Rufus, fp4 etc.) and still have all these ideas to pursue yet you still stick around despite this wall that has been there for you for god knows how long (I imagine since the PC days).