Posted by Kometa

I think the stones laying around is pretty self-explanatory enough, we figured it out right away you just have to make sure not to 'throw', but place them inside the holes. With a party of three lvl 10's, we managed to get to the last stone, but the second wave of archers is pretty brutal. Lots of trial and error and definitely not a quest for lvl 10's without armor lol. Think we would've been better with 2 mages because the archers stay grouped together.
Still have to reserve my thoughts on this dungeon since we haven't finished it, but i really like it so far it's definitely challenging. which is good! would've liked to play it again without the npc's walking through the walls in the first S-shaped corridor. The first set of three spikes in that same section could be tweaked to have the spikes retracted all the way before coming out, or slightly more concealed similar to the small ones, as it looks a little odd to walk through them halfway up.

I disagree with you.

When we were doing this dungeon, the party, was composed, for most peole, by players who had already played Graal games (So they have already knowledge and intuitions about of to do things in graal games.)

Don't get me wrong, I do not saying that this dungeon was too diffucult, Im here just to improve game experience for beginners.
(I knew since the beginning, that we would never finish this dungeon being that weak. It was already hard with four person level 25, full equiped, before Beta)

Im here referring to neophytes without any experience of graal games — starting this game from zero. Thereby, all my comments here trying to prevent what mostly games nowadays have tendencies to do — let the new players without any guidance. So there must be "some tips" (like an NPC or help screen) for news players to better introduce them into this new world.
(I think personnaly that Delteria have a great potential to attract alot of new players who never played Graal games before.)

In fact, I was watching you (without any interventions from my part) just to see how long would you take to understand the mecanics of this rooms.

(You have taken 45 mins-1h10 to understand theses mecanics.):

-Put the rock in the water — very fast, 1 mins because most of the (old) players knew what to do because of their Graal intuitions, by extension — their experience. In that fact, think now a person who had never played this game, how long he would take realize that? (including a party)
-Dont be near to the traps ( the one firing arrows) to let the holder stone put this one in the waterfall — after : 20-30 mins ( I told you finally to how to do it)
-Be ready next to the archers to kill them before they destroy the stone in the waterfall — after : 30mins-40mins (I've also told you that after 30 mins.)

But as you stated we were too weak to get rid of the monsters.

(By the way, sorry if I do mistakes, english isn't my native language)  

Posted by Az'roth Azay Z.

I disagree with you.

When we were doing this dungeon, the party, was composed, for most peole, by players who had already played Graal games (So they have already knowledge and intuitions about of to do things in graal games.)

Don't get me wrong, I do not saying that this dungeon was too diffucult, Im here just to improve game experience for beginners.
(I knew since the beginning, that we would never finish this dungeon being that weak.)

Im here referring to neophytes without any experience of graal games — starting this game from zero. Thereby, all my comments here trying to prevent what mostly games nowadays have tendencies to do — let the new players without any guidance. So there must be "some tips" (like an NPC or help screen) for news players to better introduce them into this new world.
(I think personnaly that Delteria have a great potential to attract alot of new players who never played Graal games before.)

In fact, I was watching you (without any interventions from my part) just to see how long would you take to understand the mecanics of this rooms.

(You have taken 45 mins-1h10 to understand theses mecanics.):

-Put the rock in the water — very fast, 1 mins because most of the (old) players knew what to do because of their Graal intuitions, by extension their experience.
-Dont be near to the traps ( the one firing arrows) to let the holder stone put this one in the waterfall — after 20-30 mins ( I told you finally to how to do it)
-Be ready next to the archers to kill them before they destroy the stone in the waterfall — after 30mins-40mins (I've also told you that after 30 mins.)

But as you stated we were too weak to get rid of the monsters.

(By the way, sorry if I do mistakes, english isn't my native language)

My opinion:

Dungeons are not supposed to be easy. They have puzzle rooms for a reason, to attempt to make players work together to find out how to get to the next room.

No new players who have never played graal before will be able to complete that dungeon. That is because they would need to have played Delteria for awhile to get enough XP to even attempt the dungeon. After they are a decent level, they will attempt the dungeon with their friends, and then they will need to work together to find out how to complete the dungeon.

We worked out how to do the dungeon with team work, and we were unlucky that people left before we could get through.

I've played all graal games, but this gave me no advantage over someone who has never played a graal game before. It was just trial and error, until we worked out together how to get through to the next room. That for me is the purpose of a dungeon.  

Posted by Vulcan Blaze

My opinion:

Dungeons are not supposed to be easy. They have puzzle rooms for a reason, to attempt to make players work together to find out how to get to the next room.

No new players who have never played graal before will be able to complete that dungeon. That is because they would need to have played Delteria for awhile to get enough XP to even attempt the dungeon. After they are a decent level, they will attempt the dungeon with their friends, and then they will need to work together to find out how to complete the dungeon.

We worked out how to do the dungeon with team work, and we were unlucky that people left before we could get through.

"Dungeons are not supposed to be easy."
I do totally agree with you. I'm just saying that there should be some "tips". Each enigms have it's own hints.

"That is because they would need to have played Delteria for awhile to get enough XP to even attempt the dungeon."
You can rapidly get enough XP to get level 25, (By my own experience, I did that within 1-2 weeks maximum, considering the time I played)

"We worked out how to do the dungeon with team work, and we were unlucky that people left before we could get through."
I disagree (partially), without my intervention, (without any egocentrism) you would take - much more time to understand the mecanics. I told you how to do it step by step(except the first part). (Of course, I after a long time of playing and acquiring good stuff, when you would be able to beat those monsters with one hit, there's will be no difficulties to get rid of them). Effectively, I don't deny the aspect of the teamwork.

Posted by Vulcan Blaze

My opinion:
I've played all graal games, but this gave me no advantage over someone who has never played a graal game before.

Here, I also disagree, but it's my own opinion.


Cordially A.Z.  

In this picture i can see a line when the clouds move a see that maybe you guys did a mistake? https://imgur.com/a/ksxTa  

There's a glitch here:

https://giphy.com/gifs/xT0xesttpHHo6akksE/html5

Spells: "Tanglement"

I would be more interesting if "Tanglement" was also slowing monsters - and not only opponents. (As it was before)
It would make it more useful in PvM.  

Posted by Az'roth Azay Z.

There's a glitch here:

https://giphy.com/gifs/xT0xesttpHHo6akksE/html5

Spells: "Tanglement"

I would be more interesting if "Tanglement" was also slowing monsters - and not only opponents. (As it was before)
It would make it more useful in PvM.

I agree that we shouldn't have spells that only work in PvP... also, speaking of that sort of thing, stuns should really have reduced duration in PvP. Stunlocking like maybe one baddie at a time while reduced duration on players seems more balanced than right now.  

Posted by Az'roth Azay Z.

I disagree with you.

When we were doing this dungeon, the party, was composed, for most peole, by players who had already played Graal games (So they have already knowledge and intuitions about of to do things in graal games.)

Don't get me wrong, I do not saying that this dungeon was too diffucult, Im here just to improve game experience for beginners.
(I knew since the beginning, that we would never finish this dungeon being that weak. It was already hard with four person level 25, full equiped, before Beta)

Im here referring to neophytes without any experience of graal games — starting this game from zero. Thereby, all my comments here trying to prevent what mostly games nowadays have tendencies to do — let the new players without any guidance. So there must be "some tips" (like an NPC or help screen) for news players to better introduce them into this new world.
(I think personnaly that Delteria have a great potential to attract alot of new players who never played Graal games before.)

I think the concept of playing a Graal game or server is really not that hard to pick up and learn or as one might believe, credit in part those servers with tutorials, but the controls should be familiar to most people right away. The social aspect is what i think sucks most people in, as you may even have tons of players playing the server casually just to chat with friends or even role-play. I’m hopeful most newer players will be expecting more of an RPG-styled server when they first step into Delteria, or at least have an understanding from the beginning of why and how the server might be different than what they were previously playing on. Also of course, those who have played any pc/console/mobile game from the RPG genre, excluding Graal, will already have a better understanding of the server’s mechanics.
You also do bring up some honest concerns regarding new players, and I also think some of the earlier quests and tutorials can use some refinements to teach those players. (How to move, message players/admins, more in depth tutorials etc?)

Posted by Az'roth Azay Z.

In fact, I was watching you (without any interventions from my part) just to see how long would you take to understand the mecanics of this rooms.

(You have taken 45 mins-1h10 to understand theses mecanics.):

-Put the rock in the water — very fast, 1 mins because most of the (old) players knew what to do because of their Graal intuitions, by extension — their experience. In that fact, think now a person who had never played this game, how long he would take realize that? (including a party)
-Dont be near to the traps ( the one firing arrows) to let the holder stone put this one in the waterfall — after : 20-30 mins ( I told you finally to how to do it)
-Be ready next to the archers to kill them before they destroy the stone in the waterfall — after : 30mins-40mins (I've also told you that after 30 mins.)

But as you stated we were too weak to get rid of the monsters.
(By the way, sorry if I do mistakes, english isn't my native language)

First, I think you need to put into perspective that we were all randomly warped and put into this dungeon, regardless of our levels (which became obvious right away), that we were too low to undertake this dungeon. With our random hand-picked group, we already struggled in the first corridor, which could also be attributed to current npc mechanics (can’t really run from npc in tight S-shaped corridor, especially if they can walk through the wall), and again lack of levels. This section probably took 15-20 mins and the range members eventually took out the npc’s without alerting them (by design or bug?).

I was the first to pick up a stone and attempt to place it in the hole, but players in a group will instantly notice an ally pick up a stone, and follow along with their concepts of what to do with it. In regard to you concern with new players of Graal, consider that by the time players choose to tackle this dungeon, they will have played on the server for a considerable amount of time (I’m sure there will be thousands of instances of running around and observing other players picking up bushes). Also, please consider word of mouth, playing in party with an experienced player, and always the option to PM/ask an admin for advice (Assuming this would’ve been addressed/seen upon a tutorial or arrival, and if not can also be added)

The traps were always visible to us when you get near, but again, this section has npc’s when you first enter the room, party members also kept dying which could’ve also attributed in part to time spent on this section that you noted, and the chaos at the time would’ve delayed any planning of any real strategy. When it was down to just the 3 of us, we did eventually come up with a strategy we thought would best get us finally through (a member luring the beatles away, with fire and bombs also used for the archers) but our member luring them away eventually got caught or died by the time the second wave of archers appeared, with my lack of dmg to kill both sets of archers in time). I actually really enjoyed the trial and error and our strategy, especially when it was just me and Vulcan after everyone left, and it wasn’t exactly impossible, but the conditions had to be perfect for us to get through and we eventually ran out of time; with difficulty or any rage associated not all that different from attempting something in an RPG like Dark Souls hahah It was fun and maybe any concerns you had with time would’ve been solved if we had more damage and higher levels, as I realized you couldn’t really damage the baddies and wanted to to place the rocks, so I would definitely love revisit it again with you soon!

I also do share your opinion on Tips, but also again consider this is a dungeon to be attempted with higher leveled players, probably near the end of their skills trees, Delteria currently open has three dungeons open atm and i’d assume this would be the hardest so far so if tips were to be implemented for this dungeon, they would have to be done carefully without it being too blatant. However, it would make sense to add any tips in the first dungeon as it’s the first one that players encounter.

Consider a quest(s) early game for players to come back to a Class Master after their choice of first perk to classify them into which Npc Class Master/whatevername they’d be assigned to (Warrior, Mage, Cleric, Hunter). There’s already particular quest early game pertaining to choosing your first perk, which this can be added onto. Then perhaps get rid of the “Get More” button inside perks tab, and instead have players visit their assigned Class npc/could be same npc for everyone, in order to upgrade perks in your tree with points?
Maybe even a little tutorial on how to use whichever perks/how to use hotkeys sword/shield, mage/cleric spell, bow. Then eventually how to attack with item, or only teach how to equip (I know this would certainly takes a lot of time and it’s just a suggestion)
A more simpler suggestion is to show the class of player in player’s Profile. Perhaps the ring around player’s avatar could be different, diff revolving runes, diff color, an icon, etc. having some unique characteristic and depending on a player’s class  

Posted by Kometa

I think the concept of playing a Graal game or server is really not that hard to pick up and learn or as one might believe, credit in part those servers with tutorials, but the controls should be familiar to most people right away. The social aspect is what i think sucks most people in, as you may even have tons of players playing the server casually just to chat with friends or even role-play. I’m hopeful most newer players will be expecting more of an RPG-styled server when they first step into Delteria, or at least have an understanding from the beginning of why and how the server might be different than what they were previously playing on. Also of course, those who have played any pc/console/mobile game from the RPG genre, excluding Graal, will already have a better understanding of the server’s mechanics.
You also do bring up some honest concerns regarding new players, and I also think some of the earlier quests and tutorials can use some refinements to teach those players. (How to move, message players/admins, more in depth tutorials etc?)


First, I think you need to put into perspective that we were all randomly warped and put into this dungeon, regardless of our levels (which became obvious right away), that we were too low to undertake this dungeon. With our random hand-picked group, we already struggled in the first corridor,
"which could also be attributed to current npc mechanics"
(can’t really run from npc in tight S-shaped corridor," especially if they can walk through the wall)", and again lack of levels. This section probably took 15-20 mins and the range members eventually took out the npc’s without alerting them (by design or bug?).


- In fact, I find also that Npc's mechanics should be completly overhauled.

I was the first to pick up a stone and attempt to place it in the hole, but players in a group will instantly notice an ally pick up a stone, and follow along with their concepts of what to do with it. In regard to you concern with new players of Graal, consider that by the time players choose to tackle this dungeon, they will have played on the server for a considerable amount of time (I’m sure there will be thousands of instances of running around and observing other players picking up bushes). Also, please consider word of mouth, playing in party with an experienced player, and always the option to PM/ask an admin for advice (Assuming this would’ve been addressed/seen upon a tutorial or arrival, and if not can also be added)

-Sorry, I did not understood this part.

The traps were always visible to us when you get near, but again, this section has npc’s when you first enter the room, party members also kept dying which could’ve also attributed in part to time spent on this section that you noted, and the chaos at the time would’ve delayed any planning of any real strategy. "When it was down to just the 3 of us, we did eventually come up with a strategy we thought would best get us finally through" (a member luring the beatles away, with fire and bombs also used for the archers) but our member luring them away eventually got caught or died by the time the second wave of archers appeared, with my lack of dmg to kill both sets of archers in time). I actually really enjoyed the trial and error and our strategy, especially when it was just me and Vulcan after everyone left, and it wasn’t exactly impossible, but the conditions had to be perfect for us to get through and we eventually ran out of time; with difficulty or any rage associated not all that different from attempting something in an RPG like Dark Souls hahah It was fun and maybe any concerns you had with time would’ve been solved if we had more damage and higher levels, as I realized you couldn’t really damage the baddies and wanted to to place the rocks, so I would definitely love revisit it again with you soon!

-Indeed, as I stated before, we were too weak (especially me), resulting by being blocked in that room. I don't deny our cooperation, everyone made a contribution to the whole.

I also do share your opinion on Tips, but also again consider this is a dungeon to be attempted with higher leveled players, probably near the end of their skills trees, Delteria currently open has three dungeons open atm and i’d assume this would be the hardest so far so if tips were to be implemented for this dungeon, they would have to be done carefully without it being too blatant. However, it would make sense to add any tips in the first dungeon as it’s the first one that players encounter.

- In that point, I do totally agree with you. In fact, add some tips in the first dungeon would be a better idea.


Consider a quest(s) early game for players to come back to a Class Master after their choice of first perk to classify them into which Npc Class Master/whatevername they’d be assigned to (Warrior, Mage, Cleric, Hunter). There’s already particular quest early game pertaining to choosing your first perk, which this can be added onto. Then perhaps get rid of the “Get More” button inside perks tab, and instead have players visit their assigned Class npc/could be same npc for everyone, in order to upgrade perks in your tree with points?
Maybe even a little tutorial on how to use whichever perks/how to use hotkeys sword/shield, mage/cleric spell, bow. Then eventually how to attack with item, or only teach how to equip (I know this would certainly takes a lot of time and it’s just a suggestion)
A more simpler suggestion is to show the class of player in player’s Profile. Perhaps the ring around player’s avatar could be different, diff revolving runes, diff color, an icon, etc. having some unique characteristic and depending on a player’s class

-Nice ideas, especially, the little tutorial could really helpful for neophytes.

Cordially A.Z.

Quest: Goblin Killer

Missing indactions about the location of the current Npcs:
Kill 0/2 goblin_base(s)
Kill 0/1 goblin_healer(s)
Kill 0/1 goblin_hob(s)

Posted by Vladamir Blackthorne

I agree that we shouldn't have spells that only work in PvP... also, speaking of that sort of thing, stuns should really have reduced duration in PvP. Stunlocking like maybe one baddie at a time while reduced duration on players seems more balanced than right now.

I can only agree.  

the apothecary's endorsement and the bartender's sponsorship quests broken (the quest draco and his mounts too.. i think)

& what happened to the climbing perk?? so many places i cant reach..  

Posted by Basil

the apothecary's endorsement and the bartender's sponsorship quests broken (the quest draco and his mounts too.. i think)

& what happened to the climbing perk?? so many places i cant reach..

You don't need the perk, just equip any boots better than leather.  

Quest: Goblin Killer

Missing indactions about the location of the current Npcs:
Kill 0/2 goblin_base(s)
Kill 0/1 goblin_healer(s)
Kill 0/1 goblin_hob(s)

Posted by Vladamir Blackthorne

I agree that we shouldn't have spells that only work in PvP... also, speaking of that sort of thing, stuns should really have reduced duration in PvP. Stunlocking like maybe one baddie at a time while reduced duration on players seems more balanced than right now.

I can only agree.

Stairs problem:

When you go through stairs you can not move without being slow down. (open the thumbnail)  

Posted by Az'roth Azay Z.

Quest: Goblin Killer

Missing indactions about the location of the current Npcs:
Kill 0/2 goblin_base(s)
Kill 0/1 goblin_healer(s)
Kill 0/1 goblin_hob(s)



I can only agree.

Stairs problem:

When you go through stairs you can not move without being slow down. (open the thumbnail)

There are no locations. goblin_healer are the mage goblins, goblin_hob are hobgoblins (blue ones without hair, much tougher than other goblins) and idk what goblin_base are but apparently I've killed one in total.  

Posted by Az'roth Azay Z.

In The Desert dungeon:

(For the beginners)

There should be an indication (NPC, or an help screen) telling them, that they must take rocks and put them in the waterfall.

there doesn't need to be noob indications on everything you do. Some dungeons should be figured out by the player on what to do.

Posted by Vladamir Blackthorne

There are no locations. goblin_healer are the mage goblins, goblin_hob are hobgoblins (blue ones without hair, much tougher than other goblins) and idk what goblin_base are but apparently I've killed one in total.

i need to change them to world_healer, since we redid the baddies since then. Quest ID?  

MysticalDragon i think this is another bug i was attacking a mushroom and it attacked back at first for like 20 seconds then i attacked it again, and it was just standing there for 10 seconds then came at me again.  

Posted by Vladamir Blackthorne

There are no locations. goblin_healer are the mage goblins, goblin_hob are hobgoblins (blue ones without hair, much tougher than other goblins) and idk what goblin_base are but apparently I've killed one in total.

Did you succeed to finish this quest? (I have killed all of them, but the number stay at zero for each goblins (hobgoblins, mage goblins...)

Posted by MysticalDragon

there doesn't need to be noob indications on everything you do. Some dungeons should be figured out by the player on what to do.

i need to change them to world_healer, since we redid the baddies since then. Quest ID?

I've reconsidered my view on this point, by discussing with kometa, as I answered him "- In that point, I do totally agree with you. In fact, add some tips in the first dungeon would be a better idea."(Don't exagerate my words, of course not everywhere but as Deltlite is now erased from Delteria, the game start at Kaijun. Therefore, you have to consider the fact that people need alot of help in their first steps into this game.)

Quest: (named)Goblin Killer, located in the hospital. (Where General Talon is standing)


The spell "Thunder Bolt" doesn't work on Npc's.
(Check the Thumbnail)

The quest: Lazy Day
Had been corrected, now can be completed.