It’s always exciting to see some changes to the map, always gets the imagination boiling with new ideas

As always we players appreciate all the volunteer help that makes this game possible and exciting. What kinda exciting quests or activities could await us? Will I ever be fat enough to cross the Dusty desert? Does Onnet(NPC) hold some mysterious secret? See what I mean? Boiling imagination sauce!

Thanks for all the hard work as always  

Posted by Rusix

If it is that much of a mess to get even simply get the right tile, I'll personally remake the tileset and anything else that is a mess.

I just done some digging around in Google for the tileset.which I'll post below, It was in another thread. One is named pics1.png but another isn't but looks more Classic like with trees and whatnot. And from what I see from the get-go is just how unorganized this thing is. 0 spacing, ect. I'll remake the tileset this weekend for you guys if that helps in terms of finding things, Ect. Might be one of the most unorganized tileset i seen, I'll get playerworlds tonight, and as well as remake the tileset this weekend so it could help you guys.

You can't remake it. Every tile has been in the same position since 1998. Graal is quite literally built around that tileset and it's layout. Sure, you could rip some of it and put it on a type1 tileset, but type0 uses way more blocking tiles than type1 can accommodate. Yeah, maybe you could optimize type0 and rescript the layout, but who knows how to do that?  

Posted by Perseus

You can't remake it. Every tile has been in the same position since 1998. Graal is quite literally built around that tileset and it's layout. Sure, you could rip some of it and put it on a type1 tileset, but type0 uses way more blocking tiles than type1 can accommodate. Yeah, maybe you could optimize type0 and rescript the layout, but who knows how to do that?

I mean graal doesn't have to use completely different tileset, Just have a new one built and from future on just use it to build on quicker, So you wouldn't need to delete the old one and delete everything already made i suppose.  

https://imgur.com/a/V2GPG
I highlighted a few of the main issues in your "level" but there's multiple other ones I didn't bother to highlight and not only will there probably be more problems if I looked further, but there's a lot of things that make the level sort of ugly.

It's clear you used a random ios app you have no experience in on your free time to design a village. That level, while you may feel proud of it, isn't good enough to be released in an MMORPG with thousands of players, let alone any decent game. On top of all the problems i mentioned earlier, it's an extremely boring level. There's nothing interesting about it that would make you want to explore, and it's an extremely bland generic village.

As far as I remember, you lied about having a 10k-100 spar record or something so no offense I can't take your word for it on "45 minutes." I've done levels with tons of various softwares, and never have I designed anything even close to that timeframe. Even a basic RPGMAKER level takes an hour or two (provided I'm actually making it look nice.)

With this in mind, factor in how outdated the levels editor is. Pics1 is a jumbled mess. Unlike most other levelling tools for other games, there's been no update to the one the devs use.

It's clear you don't have any info on this topic, so I don't know why you're talking like you do. If the dev team put out the level you made as a "new town", they'd get raided for a "lack of effort."

Not only that, you have to remember that there needs to be stuff done in the levels. Once the staff have actually built the cliffs, trees etc; using the terribly formatted tools, they still have to add in all the NPCs, shops, quests, baddies etc; that make the level unique from the others.

Like crono said, you should open up the editor, and try to design something as good as MoD town in "2 hours." If you watch any tutorials on youtube, that factors into the time because according to you, you can legit just get a level put out in 2 hours, starting from when you open your laptop. I guarantee you, you'll fail to put out a decent level in 2 hours.

And as for what you said about changing the tileset, that's also not as easy as it sounds. You can't just wish for a new tileset and get one. And if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure if you suddenly switched the tileset, the rest of the world would get messed up.  

Posted by Westbrook Graal

https://imgur.com/a/V2GPG
I highlighted a few of the main issues in your "level" but there's multiple other ones I didn't bother to highlight and not only will there probably be more problems if I looked further, but there's a lot of things that make the level sort of ugly.

It's clear you used a random ios app you have no experience in on your free time to design a village. That level, while you may feel proud of it, isn't good enough to be released in an MMORPG with thousands of players, let alone any decent game. On top of all the problems i mentioned earlier, it's an extremely boring level. There's nothing interesting about it that would make you want to explore, and it's an extremely bland generic village.

As far as I remember, you lied about having a 10k-100 spar record or something so no offense I can't take your word for it on "45 minutes." I've done levels with tons of various softwares, and never have I designed anything even close to that timeframe. Even a basic RPGMAKER level takes an hour or two (provided I'm actually making it look nice.)

With this in mind, factor in how outdated the levels editor is. Pics1 is a jumbled mess. Unlike most other levelling tools for other games, there's been no update to the one the devs use.

It's clear you don't have any info on this topic, so I don't know why you're talking like you do. If the dev team put out the level you made as a "new town", they'd get raided for a "lack of effort."

Not only that, you have to remember that there needs to be stuff done in the levels. Once the staff have actually built the cliffs, trees etc; using the terribly formatted tools, they still have to add in all the NPCs, shops, quests, baddies etc; that make the level unique from the others.

Like crono said, you should open up the editor, and try to design something as good as MoD town in "2 hours." If you watch any tutorials on youtube, that factors into the time because according to you, you can legit just get a level put out in 2 hours, starting from when you open your laptop. I guarantee you, you'll fail to put out a decent level in 2 hours.

And as for what you said about changing the tileset, that's also not as easy as it sounds. You can't just wish for a new tileset and get one. And if I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure if you suddenly switched the tileset, the rest of the world would get messed up.

For one, I made it on the Unreal engine, 4.18 which I just updated it to 4.19 yesterday, to be exact, Not a IOS app. And I don't even think you even can make levels in a mobile device as I pretty sure most game engines dont run on any mobile platform. if you paid attention to anything I said, I said I pretty much only made the level only to use the tileset and mess around with it to see what the animations, and what not would look like not so much to create a serious level. Not sure if you just over read that or you just didn't understand it. That's the only level i have on my School PC which was the only one i could show at the time.I could list a thousand things as well about why it isn't a serious level. Like too many layers, Ect.

And secondly, It was a 10k-600 or something, Which was more so meant to be a joke to piss off Sarah. Which i thought that was already well known? Worked before to make her spar me so I used it again. And although she didn't spar it was still worth it. Not sure why you're bringing up an obvious joke from like what 6 months ago?

Thirdly I'm gonna be using the playerworlds level editor tonight, I don't know why id be watching YouTube tutorials when I already know how to make levels and have been for like years now, I already know how to set collison, Set up GUI, Animations, plus I've made levels from tilesets that was pretty messy ( Not as messy as classic's but regardless still messy). Like when I made a level for the Solarus team, Which only took slightly over an hour. But as Crono said I'll try to create a level like swamptown tonight in about 2 hours or so.

And you are correct, If classic switched the tileset right now to a new one it would mess up. Mainly on appearance i assume Collison would likely remain the same as its a different thing in itself. But what I was suggesting was not so much a new tileset to switch out the old one but a new one that the devs could use in the future. Example being they keep the old one which keeps all the progress in classic but a new tileset for say Interior, overworld, Ect. So if they need to create something instead of making it with the old tileset they could make it with the new organized tileset.  

Posted by Rusix

For one, I made it on the Unreal engine, 4.18 which I just updated it to 4.19 yesterday, to be exact, Not a IOS app. And I don't even think you even can make levels in a mobile device as I pretty sure most game engines dont run on any mobile platform. if you paid attention to anything I said, I said I pretty much only made the level only to use the tileset and mess around with it to see what the animations, and what not would look like not so much to create a serious level. Not sure if you just over read that or you just didn't understand it. That's the only level i have on my School PC which was the only one i could show at the time.I could list a thousand things as well about why it isn't a serious level. Like too many layers, Ect.

And secondly, It was a 10k-600 or something, Which was more so meant to be a joke to piss off Sarah. Which i thought that was already well known? Worked before to make her spar me so I used it again. And although she didn't spar it was still worth it. Not sure why you're bringing up an obvious joke from like what 6 months ago?

Thirdly I'm gonna be using the playerworlds level editor tonight, I don't know why id be watching YouTube tutorials when I already know how to make levels and have been for like years now, I already know how to set collison, Set up GUI, Animations, plus I've made levels from tilesets that was pretty messy ( Not as messy as classic's but regardless still messy). Like when I made a level for the Solarus team, Which only took slightly over an hour. But as Crono said I'll try to create a level like swamptown tonight in about 2 hours or so.

And you are correct, If classic switched the tileset right now to a new one it would mess up. Mainly on appearance i assume Collison would likely remain the same as its a different thing in itself. But what I was suggesting was not so much a new tileset to switch out the old one but a new one that the devs could use in the future. Example being they keep the old one which keeps all the progress in classic but a new tileset for say Interior, overworld, Ect. So if they need to create something instead of making it with the old tileset they could make it with the new organized tileset.

There is a new(ish), organized tileset; Type1. The problem is there is that type1 (The version Era, Olwest and other servers use) does not have enough room for all of the blocking tiles type0 (The version Classic uses) has. Another issue is the tileset templates currently used are the absolute maximum size they can be, so you can't even make more room.  

Posted by Perseus

There is a new(ish), organized tileset; Type1. The problem is there is that type1 (The version Era, Olwest and other servers use) does not have enough room for all of the blocking tiles type0 (The version Classic uses) has. Another issue is the tileset templates currently used are the absolute maximum size they can be, so you can't even make more room.

Why not just have multiple tilesets to place everything? Like a Interior set , Overworld. Ect, most games I worked on had tilesets like that. Have a whole tileset for big items, Blocking tiles and so on. Although I'm sure that would be thought of by now  

Posted by Perseus

There is a new(ish), organized tileset; Type1. The problem is there is that type1 (The version Era, Olwest and other servers use) does not have enough room for all of the blocking tiles type0 (The version Classic uses) has. Another issue is the tileset templates currently used are the absolute maximum size they can be, so you can't even make more room.

So learn how to script a weapon that handles how tiles behave. In my experience you can do whatever you want with tiles using just a small amount of ingenuity.
addtiledef2() has built in parameters to help do whatever you want. There should be a single centralized weapon that handles what tiles to use and when and where.  

Posted by Rusix

For one, I made it on the Unreal engine, 4.18 which I just updated it to 4.19 yesterday, to be exact, Not a IOS app. And I don't even think you even can make levels in a mobile device as I pretty sure most game engines dont run on any mobile platform. if you paid attention to anything I said, I said I pretty much only made the level only to use the tileset and mess around with it to see what the animations, and what not would look like not so much to create a serious level. Not sure if you just over read that or you just didn't understand it. That's the only level i have on my School PC which was the only one i could show at the time.I could list a thousand things as well about why it isn't a serious level. Like too many layers, Ect.

And secondly, It was a 10k-600 or something, Which was more so meant to be a joke to piss off Sarah. Which i thought that was already well known? Worked before to make her spar me so I used it again. And although she didn't spar it was still worth it. Not sure why you're bringing up an obvious joke from like what 6 months ago?

Thirdly I'm gonna be using the playerworlds level editor tonight, I don't know why id be watching YouTube tutorials when I already know how to make levels and have been for like years now, I already know how to set collison, Set up GUI, Animations, plus I've made levels from tilesets that was pretty messy ( Not as messy as classic's but regardless still messy). Like when I made a level for the Solarus team, Which only took slightly over an hour. But as Crono said I'll try to create a level like swamptown tonight in about 2 hours or so.

And you are correct, If classic switched the tileset right now to a new one it would mess up. Mainly on appearance i assume Collison would likely remain the same as its a different thing in itself. But what I was suggesting was not so much a new tileset to switch out the old one but a new one that the devs could use in the future. Example being they keep the old one which keeps all the progress in classic but a new tileset for say Interior, overworld, Ect. So if they need to create something instead of making it with the old tileset they could make it with the new organized tileset.

Well, you didn't really say it was just to "mess around with" im p sure. The context was basically "Guys look i can make a level in 40 minutes look how easy it is." You're using your level in comparison with the developers levels, which they spend many hours on. If it was just something you did to mess around, this wouldn't be the case. And if it is the case, then the fact that you're comparing an official town for a game with thousands of monthly users with something you did to "mess around" just makes your point even less correct, because you're saying that something you did to "mess around" took you 40 minutes, so something for a large game with a million downloads should as well?

Either you're making excuses for a mediocore level after the fact, or your point makes no sense.

As for what you said about how you're trying the graal levelling tool tonight, you're kinda ignoring everyones point here.

Graals levelling tool is not only extremely unique in setup and execution, but it's extremely outdated. The programs you've claimed to have been using are much more modern, and they're worked on daily by developers with the purpose of being easy to use. In comparison, graals editor probably hasn't gotten updated since before most of its playerbase was born. So although you may have "Extreme developing experience" with other games, it'll have very little actual effect when it comes to graal developing. It's like people having a smartphone and not knowing how to use a telegraph from centuries ago.

I wouldn't call myself an "developer" by any means, but I've worked on various small projects before with various tools, including the one graal uses. And from experience, I can say that graals tools take much more effort and time because of how outdated and over complicated they are.

Obviously that doesn't mean it takes years for a NGS, but a decent "town" (Babord in this case) would take days or weeks of hard effort to be fully done.  

i like how this new town thread has led into an argument about who makes maps better  

Posted by Westbrook Graal

Well, you didn't really say it was just to "mess around with" im p sure. The context was basically "Guys look i can make a level in 40 minutes look how easy it is." You're using your level in comparison with the developers levels, which they spend many hours on. If it was just something you did to mess around, this wouldn't be the case. And if it is the case, then the fact that you're comparing an official town for a game with thousands of monthly users with something you did to "mess around" just makes your point even less correct, because you're saying that something you did to "mess around" took you 40 minutes, so something for a large game with a million downloads should as well?

Either you're making excuses for a mediocore level after the fact, or your point makes no sense.

As for what you said about how you're trying the graal levelling tool tonight, you're kinda ignoring everyones point here.

Graals levelling tool is not only extremely unique in setup and execution, but it's extremely outdated. The programs you've claimed to have been using are much more modern, and they're worked on daily by developers with the purpose of being easy to use. In comparison, graals editor probably hasn't gotten updated since before most of its playerbase was born. So although you may have "Extreme developing experience" with other games, it'll have very little actual effect when it comes to graal developing. It's like people having a smartphone and not knowing how to use a telegraph from centuries ago.

I wouldn't call myself an "developer" by any means, but I've worked on various small projects before with various tools, including the one graal uses. And from experience, I can say that graals tools take much more effort and time because of how outdated and over complicated they are.

Obviously that doesn't mean it takes years for a NGS, but a decent "town" (Babord in this case) would take days or weeks of hard effort to be fully done.

I'm fairly sure I said that it was just a concept. And not anything amazing or so on. If I gotta quote myself I will.

What I'm saying, Is if I could create a simple town set up, Set up all collision manually. Script a GUI. And personally set up animations and so on. without having any plan or the idea of what the level should or would look like and just freely create whatever, and what not. But when you have an actual design and concept of what you want, Where you want things like most game devs to create beforehand, Making the levels go way faster. Not all the game engines I mentioned are exactly updated frequently. Like Solarus. It's a pretty script entirely everything engine. And you could only place I think 2 tiles at a time. Plus if I am capable of creating levels in around an hour usually, Then I don't see any reason why an entire staff team couldn't do the same. And even as I said before when the Northern wilderness was released Dusty even said they spent only a day or so to create it. And for the overall map size, I doubt Babord would be the same size. Probably half that, Maybe more if we count interior and so on and add it up. But it would maybe at most take 3 days then if they got super fancy with it? Either way. I'm pretty sure my point still stands if they really wanted to have babord out soon, They would've probably already released it by now  

Posted by Rusix

I'm fairly sure I said that it was just a concept. And not anything amazing or so on. If I gotta quote myself I will.

What I'm saying, Is if I could create a simple town set up, Set up all collision manually. Script a GUI. And personally set up animations and so on. without having any plan or the idea of what the level should or would look like and just freely create whatever, and what not. But when you have an actual design and concept of what you want, Where you want things like most game devs to create beforehand, Making the levels go way faster. Not all the game engines I mentioned are exactly updated frequently. Like Solarus. It's a pretty script entirely everything engine. And you could only place I think 2 tiles at a time. Plus if I am capable of creating levels in around an hour usually, Then I don't see any reason why an entire staff team couldn't do the same. And even as I said before when the Northern wilderness was released Dusty even said they spent only a day or so to create it. And for the overall map size, I doubt Babord would be the same size. Probably half that, Maybe more if we count interior and so on and add it up. But it would maybe at most take 3 days then if they got super fancy with it? Either way. I'm pretty sure my point still stands if they really wanted to have babord out soon, They would've probably already released it by now

gotta consider that the area is gonna need indoors, theyre probably not gonna release new content with filler buildings like houses or whatever. this means its a whole new project, destiny had a lot of unique insides which probably takes a lot more time than slapping together some village  

Posted by Yonce

gotta consider that the area is gonna need indoors, theyre probably not gonna release new content with filler buildings like houses or whatever. this means its a whole new project, destiny had a lot of unique insides which probably takes a lot more time than slapping together some village

I already addressed interior. But it also kinda depends what interior things they are making  

Posted by ZedFox

i like how this new town thread has led into an argument about who makes maps better

It's a whole bunch of blocked user posts for me, more or less. Pretty funny.  

can we get back to speculating and talking about Babord?

we get it rusix is a twat