So what were the results of the feedback?

Modern Day GI Joe just f***s up Cobra with a drone while muttering “Go Joe” into his Diet Coke.  

Posted by Maikeru

"First, it's slow"
Thats not a valid excuse. Next part..

It's a perfectly valid excuse. If you had continued reading you would have discovered where I was going with it, smart ass

Well its called strategy my friend.
If theres more attackers in the room than the defenders, it starts to decrease. Please notice that you can also defend the rooms. Its actually a good addition because it adds a taste of strategy rather than wasting hours of your time running in with bombs and swords, hoping to get into the flag room.

The people of the guild not only has to focus on their flag but how to prevent more attackers coming in so the amount of attackers in the room won't outrun the defenders in the room. Consider it a new challenge and get used to it

Prevent... attackers... coming... in... yeaaaah. Doesn't really happen, Castle and Snow are probably the two hardest forts to stop attackers coming in.

Um... That applies the same to guild towers...
If you have the larger group, you know you're already gonna win..

First of all, wtf is a guild tower? And if I'm going to assume you mean a fort guilds try to control, then wouldn't that make all the forts 'guild towers'. Snow and Castle are still forts. Secondly, 'if you have the larger group, you already know you're gonna win' is horribly inaccurate. The sad thing is, it's probably not even the most flawed thing in your wall of garbage trying to defend yourself.

Skipped reading this part. Please remember that you're talking about King of the hill, not the castles. Next part..

I'm sorry, "provide reasons you dislike KotH" "Well I can't because if I name the fort it affects you'll shoot me down"

Again... Its called strategy.
It adds a whole new challenge to attacking/defending forts because now you have to topple the amount of attackers/defenders in the room. So not only a group of 5 people in your guild have the flag but you also got to make sure that theres not more than 5 attackers coming after your room. You got to chop off the quantity in order to stay on top. See where im going with this?

Probably your only valid point in your entire argument. Unfortunately your plan is painful as hell. You come take Snow or Castle with me and see how fun it is.

So far, no one is taking action against KotH in Graal classic. If they did, then the admins would have shut it down long time ago. It just goes to show how much people love it. Maybe you'd let this whole argument go and stop going against the fact that theres some-most people who like it alot

>"Nobody taking action"
>Me

While get used to it, cause its not gonna move for a long time..
And please notice how its all about you attackers in small groups... Your statement has to regard both attackers and defenders... So shut up if you don't have anything to say for the defenders...

1. Skitz barely mentioned attackers in her post, and she also mentioned defenders.
2. I mentioned both attacking and defending. Also next time you're trying to make your point I would have bolded "attackers" rather than "small groups". Just some CC.

We don't care if people who take over guild forts cares... That doesn't make you or Pazx part of any special group and it doesn't support at all..

There are three smokers and four non-smokers in a bar. The non-smokers force the owner of the bar to ban smoking. The non-smokers then leave the bar never to return, and the smokers are rather annoyed.

Be even thankful its a guild fort update because other than the flag, theres never gonna be one for quite a long time.

Be... Thankful...? For this?

And it adds a new challenge to the game.
If you say quality beats quantity, then make sure that quantity doesn't topple over quality. Its called strategy darling. Use it wisely!

Yay valid point, too bad it's the same one again.

That wouldn't be a nice addition at all. That would actually piss off alot of players who take over forts. You're lowering the difficulty of taking a fort. Taking forts should never be easy!

Misinterpreted on your part. Azrael was clearly talking about the defenders spawning in the flag room, and Skitz was making a direct quote. As far as I'm concerned that would make taking forts much harder :]

King of the hill adds one difficult spice to the whole guild fort taking: Quantity!
The more people, the more harder its gonna be to take over forts!

Already present.

Quality can topple over Quantity every day but you aren't thinking quality straight. You're just thinking "Oh... Here i go... Im just gonna rush in and hope i get the flag... If not, do it again.." and thats not strategy my friend. The whole point of guild towers is strategy and how you should conquer them. With King of the hill in play, it adds a new depth of strategy because now you got to focus on two things: Quantity and the Flag.

Oh we had strategy. I think I'll use your own analogy to prove it.

Imagine a war between two castles and while a group of red knights run after the blue knights, half of the red knights attack the blue knights (quantity) while two-three of the red knights go after the blue king (the flag). Thats called strategy. Its better than having a whole group of "attackers" running straight for the god damn flag, slashing endlessly until their blue in the face

Red and blue, k. With KotH = All the red knights (attackers) attack the blue knights.
Without KotH = The red knights have to both attack the blue knights AND the king. Or flag. Or whatever you want to call it.
I've been thinking for awhile you don't have the greatest understanding of forts with or without KotH.

Oh... So now you're blaming some of this on the new players? Basically, guild tower taking was made only for professionals? HAHAHAHAHA!
Next part!

Blaming? Is English your first language, because you've twisted everything we've said. She was pointing out that KotH encourages guilds to recruit a bunch of... anyone they can find, just in the hope of outnumbering the opposing forces. That is strategy, you're right my friend, but it's not a strategy any of us want to be a part of.

It doesn't take skill at all. All you've been doing in a guild fort is slashing with a group of members through the flag, got it, then slash every attacker in sight. Look at Venus Gospel. They made non-king of the hill towers look like a joke.

VG = a group of people, all friendly with each other working together to achieve their goal.

OMFG! Enough with the "Large Group" BS!

yus.

Please notice that theres updates that people DO LIKE and it shouldn't be any of YOUR CONCERN to butt in and hate it along with Pazx because clearly your statements does not support ATTACKERS and DEFENDERS but only ATTACKERS. Your statements should support both of them. If your problem with it is only about quantity, then don't bother arguing, as you already lost this argument from the very start.

There's updates people like... and we aren't allowed to say we don't like them? Woooow. And if you re-read her post I'm sure you can find mentions of defenders. You must have been too upset that we were making good points to think straight.

Do us all a favor... Learn the logistics..
Grab a piece of paper and pen with Pazx, write and think through every situation that would involve King of the hill and then using that piece of paper, i want you to tell us every problem and situation king of the hill has. If you're blaming this on quantity, you don't know strategy for sh*t..

and you know so much less than nothing better.

Anyone here got actual statements why king of the hill isn't good that does not involve QUANTITY?

Uh...

Posted by Pazx

On top of all that, Castle and Snow were two very basic yet unique forts, and now all the forts are complex because of how the way you played at Castle and Snow has changed.

First, it's slow...

It think KotH reduces the advantage defending has always had

My biggest problem with KotH is what it's turned you into. I kinda respected you before this, people like you and Higbey who I think weren't afraid to question the authority. I think I respected you up until this last page even.

mmndatwalloftextihopemyquotesworkproperly

Edit: I missed something

Please remember that you're talking about King of the hill, not the castles.

castles

castles  

Posted by Pazx

Maikeru, not only have you misinterpreted every second point we made, you've been blatently rude to us.

I'll reply to the rest of your post later, but I'm sick of your "enough with the 'large group' bs!" bs.

I'll name everyone who's opposed it I can remember if I have to. We'll refrain from using that in our arguments from here on.

No... I got everything you said hands down.. I know what im saying

Posted by Pazx

It's a perfectly valid excuse. If you had continued reading you would have discovered where I was going with it, smart ass

No. Its not a valid excuse. If king of the hill is "slow" for you, then stop taking over guild forts.. because i don't find it to be slow at all.

Prevent... attackers... coming... in... yeaaaah. Doesn't really happen, Castle and Snow are probably the two hardest forts to stop attackers coming in.

"Castle and Snow are probably the two hardest-"
Again, who gives a damn about Castle and Snow!? You're focusing on king of the hill. Your not really supporting your statements here

First of all, wtf is a guild tower? And if I'm going to assume you mean a fort guilds try to control, then wouldn't that make all the forts 'guild towers'. Snow and Castle are still forts. Secondly, 'if you have the larger group, you already know you're gonna win' is horribly inaccurate. The sad thing is, it's probably not even the most flawed thing in your wall of garbage trying to defend yourself.

Wow... Are you really that much of a crybaby?
Your pretty much saying "King of the hill sucks because larger groups can win"... Seriously, of course they're gonna win. What the hell did you expect: a group of 3 members to take down a castle of 8 members? And again, it adds a new depth of strategy to guild fort taking.

You're pretty much not asking for a challenge. You just want it back to the way it was so your guild can go take forts against weak guilds anyday. Seriously, give this update a chance.. it barely stayed on for like a year.

And be thankful to Stefan about this update instead of having to be a d*ck and ignoring half of what i said so you can pretend like im making ridiculous statements and having to whine like a 13 year old. You barely had this for a year. Right now, the update is for 4 months. Shut up..

Even though you're gonna keep complaining about this, im pretty sure that most players are getting used to it now. Its like a new Facebook Update. It was so hard in the beginning to use but then everyone got used to it for a while.

I'm sorry, "provide reasons you dislike KotH" "Well I can't because if I name the fort it affects you'll shoot me down"

"Because if i name the fort it affects"
So pretty much, this whole argument is only because of 2 forts that got this update aswell? If so, pack your bags and get out of this forum! Theres times when things have to change. Suck it up and take it like a man

Probably your only valid point in your entire argument. Unfortunately your plan is painful as hell. You come take Snow or Castle with me and see how fun it is.

Again... Strategy...
And its fun once you take over the flag because it shows you actually accomplished taking the flag by the time you got it..

>"Nobody taking action"
>Me

In Graal Classic. Im not referring to the forums here

1. Skitz barely mentioned attackers in her post, and she also mentioned defenders.

She should Provide a statement for both attackers and defenders or its completely invalid

2. I mentioned both attacking and defending. Also next time you're trying to make your point I would have bolded "attackers" rather than "small groups". Just some CC.

Does it really matter? You already knew what i was talking about

There are three smokers and four non-smokers in a bar. The non-smokers force the owner of the bar to ban smoking. The non-smokers then leave the bar never to return, and the smokers are rather annoyed.

I made a related comparison. Seriously, what the hell kind of comparison are you making here?

Be... Thankful...? For this?

Yes.. because it actually added something new to guild fort taking rather than to waste your time running towards the flag all the time and slashing till your blue in the face.

"But no.. We should have it the same... My guild won't win because we only attack in small groups and such..."

You can win in small groups if your teammates aren't lazy as hell just running after the flag and actually spy on how many members there are. After spying, you can recruit more members to topple over or you can go in and rip out quantity while trying to take the flag

Misinterpreted on your part. Azrael was clearly talking about the defenders spawning in the flag room, and Skitz was making a direct quote. As far as I'm concerned that would make taking forts much harder :]

Still, i see where you going with this. You're saying Castle and Snow are hard because the defenders respawn in the same room. I kind of agree with you there but your statements aren't giving any of us a valid reason on why you don't like it.

You're pretty much saying that Castle and Snow are hard to take over because the defenders respawn in the same room.. So basically, just make a concern regarding that, make a suggestion topic or gather a few signatures from graal players (not your 100 different email accounts. Real signatures) and im sure they'll fix it (or not). Seriously, you're not using the feedback but you're here attacking us on this forum with pointless knowledge.

Red and blue, k. With KotH = All the red knights (attackers) attack the blue knights.
Without KotH = The red knights have to both attack the blue knights AND the king. Or flag. Or whatever you want to call it.
I've been thinking for awhile you don't have the greatest understanding of forts with or without KotH.

No.. It applies to both.. Are you sure you're taking over guild forts correctly?

Blaming? Is English your first language, because you've twisted everything we've said. She was pointing out that KotH encourages guilds to recruit a bunch of... anyone they can find, just in the hope of outnumbering the opposing forces. That is strategy, you're right my friend, but it's not a strategy any of us want to be a part of.

Wow... Noob recruiting doesn't affect anything at all really... If they wanna noob recruit, go ahead. and besides, i see groups of 5-6 players already taking forts with the new koth update and i think thats decent enough

VG = a group of people, all friendly with each other working together to achieve their goal.

Oh... Im sorry... Wasn't that basically the definition of every FORT TAKING GUILD or is your entire guild a bunch of @ssholes hating on every new update Graal Classic has to offer?

There's updates people like... and we aren't allowed to say we don't like them? Woooow. And if you re-read her post I'm sure you can find mentions of defenders. You must have been too upset that we were making good points to think straight.

Im saying if you don't like them, then avoid them. Yes, so if you don't like the KotH update, then don't bother taking over guild forts anymore... Because thats gonna stay for a very long time and so far, people like it. If you're gonna make some BS that people like it because of admins and such, you don't know what your talking about.

People got used to it pretty quickly more than you did and you don't want to get used to it. You're pretty much wanting everything back to the way it was. Its changed. Give up. No matter how much you clutter up this topic with useless information, its not gonna work.

Remember in times, where there was quotes about a hero that can topple over a thousand? Sorry... Thats not you at all.. Because the admins know what they're talking about and they see that people like KotH

and you know so much less than nothing better.

Suck it up kid... Just suck it up and get used to the new KotH.. I like it.. People like it.. Now you need to like it... Don't like it? Leave.. Simple as that.. or you can leave in suggestions on how to improve it.. Thats all

My biggest problem with KotH is what it's turned you into. I kinda respected you before this, people like you and Higbey who I think weren't afraid to question the authority. I think I respected you up until this last page even.

Wow... Again with the pointless dramatic crud...
Kid, i've been this from the very start and so has higbey. Sometimes our points are correct and sometimes our points are wrong. But if people has to agree with what i say, then i know what im saying.

If you disagree what i have to say, i understand but please notice that im really pointing out my statements based on the whole point of King of the Hill, whereas you are pointing your statements on Snow and Castle.

Skitz has been pointing out against respawning and recruiting. Respawning has nothing to do with KotH but recruiting does, yet your just saying "Noob Recruiting destroys Fort taking... Blah blah blah..."

It does not.. Its just your pushing on us excuses... It wasn't meant to take forts everyday like a cakewalk but it was meant to have a challenge.. And i think King of the Hill is a unique addition to the whole Fort Taking
__________________________________________________ __________
Couple of pointers my friend:
-Its barely passed a year. Its been 1/3 of the year. I want you to see King of the Hill until July 23rd 2012 and then come here and tell me in honest clear description what is wrong with it

-King of the Hill isn't slow. You're just not seeing it through. We have a couple of guild members their 1000th hour during King of the Hill here on this forum (Calamity, Nerv, etc.) so basically, idk what the hell you're talking about. I don't see anyone complaining but you and skits here.. And their not good complaints..

-If you think im rude, you haven't touched the surface of this forum. Theres many people thats gonna give you the same strict and descriptive posts like me because most of us on this forum know what we are saying.

-This is pretty much your opinion and pretty much while half of the people on this forum may have taken their time to read this.. I took the time to read it and be reasonable on every point of my statements. Your doing the exact opposite

-Last but not least, ill bold this one very clear:
If you don't like King of the Hill, then stop Fort Taking. So far, 3/4th of all guilds have agreed to let this stay and they got pretty much used to it pretty quickly.

Your statements are garbage because you're not tackling King of the Hill but pretty much how slow, dull, and how it destroys Snow and Castle badly when all of what you are saying is BS. We have a feedback for this crap. Not seeing any changes? Be patient or Send the feedback to the classic email with reasonable statements!

Your not giving in any reasonable suggestions on how to fix these so called "problems" but you're tackling every member disrespectfully and trying to stand up like you know everything. We don't need that kind of garbage here on this forum. I may have done it sometimes but i do honestly post that i am wrong on some points. I don't see that with you.

Suck it up like the rest of us and get used to it... If not, we all kindly ask you to shut up or leave this forum... or better yet... Give us actual suggestions on how to fix these so called "problems"... Make a suggestion topic regarding this..

Nuff said... An Admin will come here to close it and provide us with actual knowledge on this..

And if you're proven wrong by them and walk away in shame, then don't blame it on me. You were responsible for every one of your posts.
-Maikeru  

Posted by Maikeru

-Last but not least, ill bold this one very clear:
If you don't like King of the Hill, then stop Fort Taking. So far, 3/4th of all guilds have agreed to let this stay and they got pretty much used to it pretty quickly.

Your statements are garbage because you're not tackling King of the Hill but pretty much how slow, dull, and how it destroys Snow and Castle badly when all of what you are saying is BS. We have a feedback for this crap. Not seeing any changes? Be patient or Send the feedback to the classic email with reasonable statements!

Your not giving in any reasonable suggestions on how to fix these so called "problems" but you're tackling every member disrespectfully and trying to stand up like you know everything. We don't need that kind of garbage here on this forum. I may have done it sometimes but i do honestly post that i am wrong on some points. I don't see that with you.

Suck it up like the rest of us and get used to it... If not, we all kindly ask you to shut up or leave this forum... or better yet... Give us actual suggestions on how to fix these so called "problems"... Make a suggestion topic regarding this..

Nuff said... An Admin will come here to close it and provide us with actual knowledge on this..

And if you're proven wrong by them and walk away in shame, then don't blame it on me. You were responsible for every one of your posts.
-Maikeru

Hey come on was the bold really necessary....  

I give up. You're so ignorant. I'm not gonna bother explaining to you. Can I have someone more intelligent to discuss this with please?

Changed my mind. Tomorrow, I'm going to point out every single flaw and contradiction in your last couple posts, and then I'll ask you kindly to respond to our posts without contradicting yourself and without getting mad

And without bolding so much text omg x.x  

oh my.

i'm not even going to quote the mistakes in your message because id be quoting the entire thing.

im just going quickly to point out two of the many problems with your latest post

1. the entire first half of the post is just you saying no to everything pazx said. you say we're not giving valid reasons? why dont you try it. "No, its really not." is not a reason.

2. i think you got confused on my comment about respawning in towers, let me clarify.

in the current KoTH system, both the defenders and attacks respawn outside. NOT in the flag room. i wasn't trying to say anything about whether or not that's a good or bad thing or whether it makes forts harder, i was simply correcting a post azrael made saying that you did respawn in flag room on KoTH, which is untrue.

honestly, your ignorance on this fact just goes further to prove that you dont use KoTH enough to really pretend to be the expert here.

i know i said i was just going to say two things, but i thought i should also clarify my statements about KoTH offence AND defense, since you didnt seem to catch them before.
im just going to state them so you can go back and reread the parts about them that i stated in my earlier post, but if you would like better explainations of them or can't fibd em in the other post, just ask and ill explain em.

i'll put em in nice easy bullets for you .

Main Problems with KoTH attacking
- promotes "noob recruiting"
-Quantity ( i think we've reiterated this one quite enough)
-slowness of flag health counter decrease

Main problems with KoTH defending
-again, noob recruiting
-quantity
-slowness of flag healing
-activity

again, i know some of those are a bit vague so if you want me to explain better i would be happy to, i just need to get some sleep now and dont have time to justify them all.  

All this strategy talk? Strategy is near impossible on graal. It's hard enough to get everyone to attack, stop, and attack at the same time.  

My Honest Opinion:
King of the Hill seems like a nice addition and so far i don't see any members complaining other than the ones on this topic. There has been guilds who still take guild forts with King of the Hill and they still catch up to 1000 hours and claim their hats. I don't see why people complain about it but honestly, i don't think that there are guilds thats not trying.

Maybe the feel on taking guild forts is not the same... Maybe Castle and Snow's difficulty for some guilds have been bumped up... Idk but in the majority of what we're seeing so far, people like it... and it hasn't past a year... So take time to get used to it...

And if your opinion remains the same, then be more than free to email classic some feedback on it. This topic has been nothing but a scribbled contract set in flames

Heres a few suggestions you can feedback if you want to:
-Have Castle's defenders respawn at the fountain or the bottom of the castle
-Have Snow's defenders respawn at the middle of the entrance room
-Have Castle/Snow excluded from King of The Hill
-Maybe add a tower exclusively to King of The Hill (and the others excluded)
-Any other suggestion that improves King of The Hill

Thank you Pazx,Serenity, and Skits for your honest suggestions but i don't want to bother wasting your time seeing as this argument can last on and on permanently till we're all blue in the face. If you just don't like it, please Feedback some suggestions to improve it or honest reasons why you don't like it.

I can argue here as long as i want to but its best to set a main point straight and get this over with. And im not mad at all. I just find it a bit annoying on how some points is all about how "Slow" and how "Stupid" King of the Hill is with no reasonable statements.

You can't blame King of the Hill for what it is and that if you can't accept what King of the Hill is, just feedback it. I should've just said it as this from the very beginning instead of having to cram my points through your heads.

Here ^_^ :
http://www.graalians.com/forums/show...1037#post41037
I created the King of the Hill topic (seeing as this one has been flamed sort of).
If anyone wants to leave a suggestion,complaint,question,or improvement regarding King of the Hill, please post it here. Don't spam/flame please.
-Maikeru  

Very well composed except you said this before and I still don't understand it.

Posted by Maikeru

and it hasn't past a year... So take time to get used to it...

We're 11/12 through the year o.o in a month I can make judgement?

Goodjob making the other thread, I've been thinking about it for awhile but I just wanted to get my points across.

Also, if you do want to see who dislikes it just PM all your friends asking whether they like it or not. I reckon you'll be surprised.

/thread?  

Posted by Pazx

You've already said that, thanks for bringing nothing to the thread.

A bit late but..

http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/newsfeed/000/200/420/BRTky.jpg?1321408042 (Unsupported image host)  

Posted by Maikeru

My Honest Opinion

Well said.  

I dislike it as well king of the hill is more favorable for those who noob recruit i remember before me and pauli would be able to hold castle for a good while an now if u get outnumbered they just run around flagroom and your sure to lose it.
King of the hill is a nice idea but they can change it up make it 1 king of the hill tower but a random tower everyday changes to king of the hill  

Posted by EP

I dislike it as well king of the hill is more favorable for those who noob recruit i remember before me and pauli would be able to hold castle for a good while an now if u get outnumbered they just run around flagroom and your sure to lose it.
King of the hill is a nice idea but they can change it up make it 1 king of the hill tower but a random tower everyday changes to king of the hill

Well if you are a experienced player you are worth 5 noobs. With king of hill it adds a sparring element to tower-taking.  

KOTH forts smell bad  

Posted by mr froggy

KOTH forts smell bad

Um wut?