༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ GIFF HATS ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ  

Posted by Thallen

unixmad: does nothing
Xor: does nothing
Dusty: seems to have little interest in the competitive aspects of Graal
Coco: seems to have no interest in the competitive aspects of Graal

I know I'm a little late to this comment but I'm just curious, why do you think I have no interest? I mean there's nothing I can really do for the competitive aspects of graal as I only really make graphics and know very very basic scripting, but that doesn't mean it doesn't still interest me.  

Posted by Coco

I know I'm a little late to this comment but I'm just curious, why do you think I have no interest? I mean there's nothing I can really do for the competitive aspects of graal as I only really make graphics and know very very basic scripting, but that doesn't mean it doesn't still interest me.

They're just gettin mad at everyone and anyone to try and get served.  

If the puppet master isn't letting Coco and Dusty pull their own strings, there's nothing they can do. I think players believe you lack interest in the "competitive" aspect because: you aren't involved in it, you believe players are a-holes when participating in events under a specific circumstance, and probably other reasons. Thallen will probably list the specifics.

@4-Lom, quit trying to instigate and accept the fact the game has been on a downfall in gameplay. This new guild system is getting the iDelteria treatment (gets announced but never going to release). You aren't complaining because you're into bug catching, looting, and being a fashionista. They are because they are into towering, sparring, and killing. Which has died down over the last several months. If you wish to re-read my post about ideas I have, go back a few pages. Bryan out.  

Posted by 4-Lom

They're just gettin mad at everyone and anyone to try and get served.

I'm not offended or anything I was just curious.

Posted by Bryan*

I think players believe you lack interest in the "competitive" aspect because: you aren't involved in it, you believe players are a-holes when participating in events under a specific circumstance, and probably other reasons. Thallen will probably list the specifics.

That's what I guessed was the reason, but didn't say anything because I thought it was silly to think I'm not interested simply because I have a different opinion about certain things. If anything, having my own opinion would mean I was more interested rather than not having an opinion at all due to not caring at all. *shrug*

Also I might not be involved in it now, but like 5-6+ years ago I used to love towering. I was involved in guild forts and all that junk and had a lot of fun doing it. I even sparred and guild sparred, so I do have an interest in it -- I just don't do it anymore due to having responsibilities and not really having the time to participate in it anymore. Plus I don't think I even could be involved in guild forts or sparring unless I made a new account under a new name so people wouldn't know who I am lol. (I was also the only one who dealt with guild hat rewards and such at one point, too. Also used to help host GST. Granted, I might not be as interested as some people, but I think saying I have no interest isn't exactly right.)  

they should delete the guild system entirely, April 1st is coming up.....  

Pls not a troll NGS release on april fools  

Guys ngs is out stop reading this thread  

Posted by Coco

I know I'm a little late to this comment but I'm just curious, why do you think I have no interest?

I can only speak from what I've seen in the past 5 years, but in that time I've seen little that would make me believe you're interested. I think the only time you actively towered was when the game was new to you, so it was probably something you were just trying out. I haven't seen you sparring, PKing, GSing, etc. That's why I always thought Rufus was pretty valuable as staff, even if he was just an adviser or whatever. He was usually in touch with these parts of the game. I don't blame anyone for not doing these things though, because they're pretty boring by themselves. That's why I try to suggest ways to make them more interesting for people and that's why I wish guilds still encouraged people to do things.

fp4 hasn't done any of that stuff either, but I can tell he understands how important they are and has interest because he took on the guild project in the first place, he was a major part of building Zodiac from the ground up (pretty "non-casual" server), he's often making updates to sparring and the GST, etc. You did handle tower hats and stuff, but if I'd imagine you'd much rather see the housing system be expanded, more quests, etc. I don't have any issues with those things either, there are a lot of people who would like to see some purpose to guilds again.

I'm not even saying it's a bad thing if you aren't interested (leave it to 4-Lom to get triggered though), but it's just frustrating to see updates being pushed out for the past year while guilds have been almost useless. I feel like guilds are the most important part of the game past being a total noob, and right now they're being used as small chat rooms. Like, what is a "spar guild?" US and Alumni were spar guilds, which basically meant they were a group of sparrers who sat on tag and talked for 70 days, then 3 weeks before the GST everyone GSed a bit, then you'd do the GST, and repeat. There are some pretty easy-to-explain solutions to this problem that would enable guilds of all type to function 24/7, and it requires guilds being a little more advanced in terms of functionality and staff being willing to offer them rewards for their accomplishments.

I'm sure you were a big part of last Halloween's quest/event. It was very nice and I assume that the majority of the graphics were done by you and the majority of the coding was done by Dusty. It really bothers me though, because it looked like a pretty big effort and it was all for a week-long event. I wish more permanent, gameplay-oriented areas of the game were given that type of attention. I'm pretty sure that's not going to happen though, because there aren't enough developers and many of the current ones are interested in more creative projects.  

Is it possible for all staff members to go on strike? stop making content stop making people buy gralat packs we need to stop unixmads income it's the only way to get this guys attention. It annoys me that this game has so much potential it can do way better but we keep giving this **** what he wants and that's money. All servers and all staff need to revolt for a better game for the everyday player and as players who enjoy the game we should demand more.

Yes it's over the top but it really is pathetic i can't see anything or anyone getting through to him, he's sitting in his rocking chair nice and comfortable doesn't have to worry because he's making money that's why he gives 0 foks about all of us (while also ripping you off staff members of your valuable time) and you staff produce meh content that brainless people buy stupid recycled morphs and items which make people buy gralat packs. I know SOME of you work hard, me and many others really do appreciate it.  

Posted by Thallen

I can only speak from what I've seen in the past 5 years, but in that time I've seen little that would make me believe you're interested. I think the only time you actively towered was when the game was new to you, so it was probably something you were just trying out. I haven't seen you sparring, PKing, GSing, etc. That's why I always thought Rufus was pretty valuable as staff, even if he was just an adviser or whatever. He was usually in touch with these parts of the game. I don't blame anyone for not doing these things though, because they're pretty boring by themselves. That's why I try to suggest ways to make them more interesting for people and that's why I wish guilds still encouraged people to do things.

I'm sure pleasing you isnt Coco's number one priority. Get over yourself. Btw, I like how you blatently cut off her whole message and only included parts to really get your point across. As she stated, she has responsiblities and doesnt have as much time as before.  

Posted by Areo

That reward is a good one, but it should not be the only reason. Look at how most other games operate

- Large monster hunts/quests for your guild to compete in, with rewards or items gained after completion.
- A level up system or prestige system to break up the monotony, with stat boosts or cosmetic rewards gained alongside your levels.
- Weekly "seasons" or tournaments to compete in, with monetary or cosmetic rewards.
- After certain achievements players will get a "shout-out".
- Victory brings more items, better armor sets, increased stats, cosmetics, badges and awards, cash(real or in-game), and so much more.

What do all of these things have in common? They all incentivize the player to compete and play... I appreciate the argument of "you play for the pure enjoyment of winning,". It's how I wish things could operate, but the thing is is that it doesn't operate well under that format. Games don't, they aren't meant to(at least MMO genre games).

I will attempt to entirely defeat that argument now, I hope that I can convince you.

Lets talk about game design.
Remove us for a second... What is the logical reason for not having rewards for competition? All it does is remove a sect of the game who actively play and participate regularly... That's bad for the game's activity, which is bad for revenue(you HAVE to have noticed the decline in activity). Moreover, I would be willing to bet that those player spend more money on the game than average, by a large margin. Why would we not want to cater to those players?

MMOs should be designed around retention of players, if a large players are not playing the game or are complaining about something, what is the reason to not do it? Just because they don't have a forums account doesn't mean that they shouldn't be represented, just like what you and 4-Lom do with bug catchers and other players.

Aside from that, Graal might've been fine should it never have had rewards from the beginning... But it didn't do that. Players are used to rewards, should they be blamed somehow for this? No, because they took what the game gave them. It makes sense that once the rewards left most of the people did...
More proof of the lack of activity if you're unconvinced:
Current tower-owning guilds member counts:
7/25, 5/25, 6/25, 8/25, 6/25.

That's very low, and it can't be denied that a 2 years ago they would've been higher. This is less then a year removed from the rewards... What about when we hit two years(I pray we won't). Will towers be contested at all? probably by guilds rocking 5 people.

We aren't even doing what you are appearing to ask for now... Classic offers plaques for players who compete in these activities. Are you saying that staff should remove these, because players should only be playing for pride? We can't sit in a middle-ground between no-rewards and full-rewards... And staff have made clear that they would like rewards to add incentive to playing their game, they just haven't had the time for it. Unrelated to my other points, but still.

Getting the upper-hand should be the "end-game" reward, when other rewards like cosmetics don't interest you, if you get what I mean. That should be for players who are bored with rewards and other aspects of the game, not for everyone... How can we bring new players into the activity without rewards? Why do you think people have been complaining about singles sparring activity for ages? There is little reason to do it, so new players don't... That can largely explain why sparring is so dead. Singles Sparring perfectly follows the "play for pride" system you are asking for... And look how it is doing. It revives after its parent activity(the gst, something with a reward) comes around, and dies shortly thereafter for 2 months.

But with rewards look what took place; many a player joined a tower guild and became invested in the game... They not only became interested in towering, but in Pking too. The rewards drew them in and gave them a reason to play at first, and then their own self-interest and passion let them enter into an activity without rewards. Do you see how that works? We need the rewards to get new players into the competitive side of the game. Removing the rewards basically means removing the reason for new players to do it, outside of not understanding what they're doing. This isn't just about us older players, this is good for everyone.

That's why we want the new system; to add all that back and more(hopefully for bug catching and other causal activities, so that guild competition almost becomes a natural part of playing the game) and to fix the issues 4-Lom nicely summed up.

If very few other games operate on that system of play, why should Graal try and be different? (I ask this because I really want a response to this specifically).

I'm generally curious if you missed my response, or if you're just ignoring what I said? @Reemas.  

Posted by Reemas

I'm sure pleasing you isnt Coco's number one priority. Get over yourself. Btw, I like how you blatently cut off her whole message and only included parts to really get your point across. As she stated, she has responsiblities and doesnt have as much time as before.

She asked one question that needed to be addressed. Which didn't need the entire message. Are you by any chance illiterate or ******ed?  

Posted by Reemas

I'm sure pleasing you isnt Coco's number one priority. Get over yourself. Btw, I like how you blatently cut off her whole message and only included parts to really get your point across. As she stated, she has responsiblities and doesnt have as much time as before.

AM I DOING THE THING??!!  

Posted by Areo

I'm generally curious if you missed my response, or if you're just ignoring what I said? @Reemas.

He'd much rather criticize me for answering Coco's question and rant on how I "blatently" (holy ****) cut off her message (while doing the exact same thing to mine) because I quoted the part that I was answering. He's not here for any useful discussion. He's just here to derail the thread and get offended by everything.

http://www.graalians.com/forums/prof...=ignore&u=6463