Posted by SnakeRekon

You guys bought the weapon in the first place BECAUSE it was overpowered.

No, the stats shouldn't really have been changed - but tbh, if they wasn't everyone else would be moaning and crying because it's overpowered.
Romario, tell me what YOU think needs to be done to make the KSG worthwhile, remembering it still has to be worse than a PBP Shotgun and nearing the same as other things its pricerange.

Well, I was one of te first 10 who bought it, and I honestly only bought it because it has a shield. How can I know if a weapon is overpowered if I haven't used it yet? And if you restore it to it's former glory it's just about worth the money. Probably every weapon is over powered, but some weapons are more usefull for certain situations. The KSG shotgun isn't overpowered, it's just a total new way to PK, because there is no need to dodge the bullets. It's something different, and people don't like different things, and they start complaining. They can buy it too and have the exact same advantage, so they shouldn't complain and just face that not all guns can be like the M4, cheap (if you look at the relation between price an how good the gun is) and decent. So please, restore the KSG .  

From what I saw when it was first released, it was a pretty stupidly high powered weapon..
Also, taking your point "How can I know if a weapon is overpowered if I haven't used it yet?" Isn't it also true that it could of been absolute dog**** and you'd have still wasted 75k on it hmm? So in which case you'd have still complained about it.
KSG seemed to dominate in most circumstances, thats why it was reduced a little, pretty sure rather than blocking every bullet it now blocks a % of bullets to even the playing field..

Now, what exactly is wrong with the KSG? No one seems to want to tell me what is wrong with it x.x Is it too slow? Too low damage? Blockrate too low? Freeze to high?
Throw me a ball and I might throw one back.  

Posted by SnakeRekon

From what I saw when it was first released, it was a pretty stupidly high powered weapon..
Also, taking your point "How can I know if a weapon is overpowered if I haven't used it yet?" Isn't it also true that it could of been absolute dog**** and you'd have still wasted 75k on it hmm? So in which case you'd have still complained about it.
KSG seemed to dominate in most circumstances, thats why it was reduced a little, pretty sure rather than blocking every bullet it now blocks a % of bullets to even the playing field..

Now, what exactly is wrong with the KSG? No one seems to want to tell me what is wrong with it x.x Is it too slow? Too low damage? Blockrate too low? Freeze to high?
Throw me a ball and I might throw one back.

Okay, here we go: you have to take in consideration that the KSG is 75000 gralats, which makes it one of the most expensive guns in Era. Seeing this, it doesn't have the power of one of the best guns of era, something I would expect, as this is rather weird because most of the other guns do have something like this. (a price/quality relation that is more balanced) and I don't know if I would have complained about it. Probably not, it's not just the KSG being nerfed, it's a line that has been crossed (I already explained this didn't I...?)
It also certainly doesn't dominate. Let's take two guns, the KSG and an M4 or another weapon that is in the same price range (around 75000). Let two people wield them, place them facing each other and let them shoot. Wouldn't be surprised if M4 won, although it's price is 20000 beneath the KSG's. What's wrong with the KSG is that it's a "special" gun and that (understandable) it's hard to know which stats should be given to it. I would suggest the old stats (from when it came out), with maybe even one damage extra per bullet. Just take it in consideration, try things out, maybe you can see what's best for the KSG then .  

Posted by Engel

Okay, here we go: you have to take in consideration that the KSG is 75000 gralats, which makes it one of the most expensive guns in Era. Seeing this, it doesn't have the power of one of the best guns of era, something I would expect, as this is rather weird because most of the other guns do have something like this. (a price/quality relation that is more balanced) and I don't know if I would have complained about it. Probably not, it's not just the KSG being nerfed, it's a line that has been crossed (I already explained this didn't I...?)
It also certainly doesn't dominate. Let's take two guns, the KSG and an M4 or another weapon that is in the same price range (around 75000). Let two people wield them, place them facing each other and let them shoot. Wouldn't be surprised if M4 won, although it's price is 20000 beneath the KSG's. What's wrong with the KSG is that it's a "special" gun and that (understandable) it's hard to know which stats should be given to it. I would suggest the old stats (from when it came out), with maybe even one damage extra per bullet. Just take it in consideration, try things out, maybe you can see what's best for the KSG then .

You've mis-read what I put, I said when it was first released it dominated - I didn't mean it dominated currently. As we have discussed previously in the thread, please stop comparing it to the M4. They are weapons of different classes and should be treated as such, compare it to the other shotguns or protective weapons, else your argument is pretty much invalid at this point.

From what I see it blocks 25% of the damage given, which is pretty good, I suppose - would be better if we were using higher damage numbers and HP counts however.

Stop telling me to use the old stats, please. I have asked several times for improvements on the current stats, if you're only telling me to use the old stats.. You really don't know exactly what you feel is wrong with the weapon in the first place.. which, I don't know why we're even having this discussion if you don't :3  

Posted by SnakeRekon

You've mis-read what I put, I said when it was first released it dominated - I didn't mean it dominated currently. As we have discussed previously in the thread, please stop comparing it to the M4. They are weapons of different classes and should be treated as such, compare it to the other shotguns or protective weapons, else your argument is pretty much invalid at this point.

From what I see it blocks 25% of the damage given, which is pretty good, I suppose - would be better if we were using higher damage numbers and HP counts however.

Stop telling me to use the old stats, please. I have asked several times for improvements on the current stats, if you're only telling me to use the old stats.. You really don't know exactly what you feel is wrong with the weapon in the first place.. which, I don't know why we're even having this discussion if you don't :3

If block rate gets increased I'll buy the ksg right now :p  

Posted by SnakeRekon

You've mis-read what I put, I said when it was first released it dominated - I didn't mean it dominated currently. As we have discussed previously in the thread, please stop comparing it to the M4. They are weapons of different classes and should be treated as such, compare it to the other shotguns or protective weapons, else your argument is pretty much invalid at this point.

From what I see it blocks 25% of the damage given, which is pretty good, I suppose - would be better if we were using higher damage numbers and HP counts however.

Stop telling me to use the old stats, please. I have asked several times for improvements on the current stats, if you're only telling me to use the old stats.. You really don't know exactly what you feel is wrong with the weapon in the first place.. which, I don't know why we're even having this discussion if you don't :3

You've probably mis-read what I said too then, because I said it wasn't about just the KSG. It's about what you can and cannot do in a game like iEra. My knowledge of gun stats is too little to say something about improvements, but what I can and will say is that there have to be improvements. I also don't see why you can't restore the KSG to it's previous stats, (note: I bet people wouldn't even notice if you didn't told them it was upgraded again.) and why I can't compare it to an M4, because the KSG isn't really a shotgun, it shoots two bullets. An M4 with an attachment can shoot three bullets, a shipka, and an AP0 shoot two bullets aswell. All not considered a shotgun. Also, the riot shield has a 25% chance of blocking. This means one out of four bullets is blocked. Those are really bad stats for a riot shield, I think about 85% is more accurate, but again, I know too little about gun statistics to say something like that with the knowledge they are the best stats for the KSG.
Either way, why we have this discussion, is because I want to try to let you see it from my perspective, and because I enjoy the discussion ;)  

to be quite honest, era is becoming a load of BS. its basically becoming a scamming operation run by stefan to trick kids out of their money and time to play a game where , if theyre new and dont know all of how the game works, they are most likely insulted and put down by vile racists and immature children who have no concept of discipline while they try to earn the resources to get a decent gun. and for newer players that are bullied and ganged up on, it would take them months to earn even an m4 unless they pay at least $20 in gralat packs. so good job era team. some, but not all, of you maade this possible.  

Posted by Engel

You've probably mis-read what I said too then, because I said it wasn't about just the KSG. It's about what you can and cannot do in a game like iEra. My knowledge of gun stats is too little to say something about improvements, but what I can and will say is that there have to be improvements. I also don't see why you can't restore the KSG to it's previous stats, (note: I bet people wouldn't even notice if you didn't told them it was upgraded again.) and why I can't compare it to an M4, because the KSG isn't really a shotgun, it shoots two bullets. An M4 with an attachment can shoot three bullets, a shipka, and an AP0 shoot two bullets aswell. All not considered a shotgun. Also, the riot shield has a 25% chance of blocking. This means one out of four bullets is blocked. Those are really bad stats for a riot shield, I think about 85% is more accurate, but again, I know too little about gun statistics to say something like that with the knowledge they are the best stats for the KSG.
Either way, why we have this discussion, is because I want to try to let you see it from my perspective, and because I enjoy the discussion ;)

Why isn't it just about a KSG in a thread about KSG? :[ If I cared about the other guns at this point that's what i'd be looking at rofl. Surely when you're out using the gun, you can feel what is wrong, is it firing too few bullets? Not a big enough clip because you're being caught reloading, I think some of these basic things should be able to be picked up by even the most inexperienced people. Without constructive ideas about what is wrong with the KSG, it's hard to even attempt to change the stats.. I mean, when I was changing them, I asked players what they thought, I kept changing them till it was acceptable to use, wasn't till I came back to the forums that people still don't seem happy, though it feels only to be a small minority at this point.

KSG fires and shoots like a shotgun, thats why we classify it as such, especially in the script, that's what it's marked as :3 So ignore the other guns for arguments sake please as it really is quite unhelpful xD
Pretty sure the shield blocks 25% of damage overall rather than 25% of bullets. In my opinion, if it was 85%, something on the gun would have to suffer as thatd drop most damage to 1-2 damage per a bullet x.X

Posted by Infernus Lapse

to be quite honest, era is becoming a load of BS. its basically becoming a scamming operation run by stefan to trick kids out of their money and time to play a game where , if theyre new and dont know all of how the game works, they are most likely insulted and put down by vile racists and immature children who have no concept of discipline while they try to earn the resources to get a decent gun. and for newer players that are bullied and ganged up on, it would take them months to earn even an m4 unless they pay at least $20 in gralat packs. so good job era team. some, but not all, of you maade this possible.

Stefan doesn't really have much input on gun statistics or the minor changes that are made, you all think it's just some ploy by Stefan to make money.. but in actual fact the things we change are to help gameplay and balance, trust me.. I've played Era PC for a long time, Snk has also managed Era PC, balance is VERY important.. Gralat packs were always a choice, money isn't that hard to make, just takes time like any other game, dedicate some hours and you'll get a return, it's the general rule of thumb for games isn't it?
New players always have a harder time joining an established community, so you're blaming the staff for bullying by players.. that is most interesting.  

Posted by SnakeRekon

Why isn't it just about a KSG in a thread about KSG? :[ If I cared about the other guns at this point that's what i'd be looking at rofl. Surely when you're out using the gun, you can feel what is wrong, is it firing too few bullets? Not a big enough clip because you're being caught reloading, I think some of these basic things should be able to be picked up by even the most inexperienced people. Without constructive ideas about what is wrong with the KSG, it's hard to even attempt to change the stats.. I mean, when I was changing them, I asked players what they thought, I kept changing them till it was acceptable to use, wasn't till I came back to the forums that people still don't seem happy, though it feels only to be a small minority at this point.

KSG fires and shoots like a shotgun, thats why we classify it as such, especially in the script, that's what it's marked as :3 So ignore the other guns for arguments sake please as it really is quite unhelpful xD
Pretty sure the shield blocks 25% of damage overall rather than 25% of bullets. In my opinion, if it was 85%, something on the gun would have to suffer as thatd drop most damage to 1-2 damage per a bullet x.X





Stefan doesn't really have much input on gun statistics or the minor changes that are made, you all think it's just some ploy by Stefan to make money.. but in actual fact the things we change are to help gameplay and balance, trust me.. I've played Era PC for a long time, Snk has also managed Era PC, balance is VERY important.. Gralat packs were always a choice, money isn't that hard to make, just takes time like any other game, dedicate some hours and you'll get a return, it's the general rule of thumb for games isn't it?
New players always have a harder time joining an established community, so you're blaming the staff for bullying by players.. that is most interesting.

Because this is a good example to show what the big picture looks like to me. And what is the use of the riot shield if it only blocks 25%? so you have a riot shield, and you block all bullets but you do receive 75% of the damage taken? Also, it does 3 damage per bullet now, so if you would make it so that the shield blocked a bullet 85% of the time, with te rest of the stats not being downgraded (so: no "extra" freeze, 3 damage per bullet, both bullets hit= 8 damage, an 85% chance of block) that would look more like a KSG. ( by the way, the KSG fires and shoots just like a shipka, just with way less damage and it's slower, a shotgun should be slow and strong with many bullets, but okay) I don't blame you for all this, but in the future just make weapons like this auction only, so they have some kind of value if people start to notice the gun sucks, because it has been nerfed. That's whats wrong with the KSG, and if I could choose it's stats I would have added 1 damage per bullet on top of the shield, after all, it's sold for 75000...  

Posted by Engel

Because this is a good example to show what the big picture looks like to me. And what is the use of the riot shield if it only blocks 25%? so you have a riot shield, and you block all bullets but you do receive 75% of the damage taken? Also, it does 3 damage per bullet now, so if you would make it so that the shield blocked a bullet 85% of the time, with te rest of the stats not being downgraded (so: no "extra" freeze, 3 damage per bullet, both bullets hit= 8 damage, an 85% chance of block) that would look more like a KSG. ( by the way, the KSG fires and shoots just like a shipka, just with way less damage and it's slower, a shotgun should be slow and strong with many bullets, but okay) I don't blame you for all this, but in the future just make weapons like this auction only, so they have some kind of value if people start to notice the gun sucks, because it has been nerfed. That's whats wrong with the KSG, and if I could choose it's stats I would have added 1 damage per bullet on top of the shield, after all, it's sold for 75000...

The system is being considered to being changed back to the Bamboo system, where it blocks the full damage occasionally.. But what would you prefer, a constant % of damage being taken, or the occasionally chance that it'll block? The thing with Riot shield is you can both attack and defend with this.
Adding one more damage will make it the same damage as a PBP shotgun which is designed for it - perhaps making it shoot three bullets rather than two and keeping the same damage would be a good alternative? Or would you just prefer one more damage and an increase in blocking hm?

Your math sucks ;) 3 damage and two bullets = 8? Gotta remember it's 4 damage upgraded, which if you want to do comparisons you should take into account for sure.

Actually, did some research.. it's made to shoot two bullets irl :3 so ignore the 3 bullet thing  

Posted by SnakeRekon

The system is being considered to being changed back to the Bamboo system, where it blocks the full damage occasionally.. But what would you prefer, a constant % of damage being taken, or the occasionally chance that it'll block? The thing with Riot shield is you can both attack and defend with this.
Adding one more damage will make it the same damage as a PBP shotgun which is designed for it - perhaps making it shoot three bullets rather than two and keeping the same damage would be a good alternative? Or would you just prefer one more damage and an increase in blocking hm?

Your math sucks ;) 3 damage and two bullets = 8? Gotta remember it's 4 damage upgraded, which if you want to do comparisons you should take into account for sure.

Actually, did some research.. it's made to shoot two bullets irl :3 so ignore the 3 bullet thing

Actually my math doesn't suck, but from what I understood from previous threads, is that if you hit both bullets it does 8 damage as a bonus. (didn't I say that...? :0) Also, a pbp shotgun shoots four bullets each doing 8 damage, so I don't see how adding one damage to the bullets would make it like the pbp. So maybe add one damage per bullet and make te shield block (way) more? And for the upgrades: this is for every gun in era, so this can be abandoned since every gun can get an upgrade which makes it slightly better, this isn't an advantage of just the KSG. So if I understood it well, this is what we agreed on:
- one more damage per bullet
- shield has a way higher amount of chance to block (note: I personally find it better to block the damage occasionally for 100%, and not that the damage is reduced, this also gives a more realistic effect)  

Posted by Engel

Actually my math doesn't suck, but from what I understood from previous threads, is that if you hit both bullets it does 8 damage as a bonus. (didn't I say that...? :0) Also, a pbp shotgun shoots four bullets each doing 8 damage, so I don't see how adding one damage to the bullets would make it like the pbp. So maybe add one damage per bullet and make te shield block (way) more? And for the upgrades: this is for every gun in era, so this can be abandoned since every gun can get an upgrade which makes it slightly better, this isn't an advantage of just the KSG. So if I understood it well, this is what we agreed on:
- one more damage per bullet
- shield has a way higher amount of chance to block (note: I personally find it better to block the damage occasionally for 100%, and not that the damage is reduced, this also gives a more realistic effect)

Ignoring your first part because i'm pretty sure thats not the case lol x.x
PBP does 4 damage, 5 upgraded - pretty sure that got nerfed already to make it less overwhelming. So yes, adding one damage would make it the same damage as a PBP Shotgun in this case.
I'll look into getting the shield changed back to Bamboo, but I WONT raise the damage just yet, you can play with the bamboo style and see if that helps you first.  

okay i was too lazy to read this whole conversation, but is it that hard to give the KSG atleast 50 EXTRA per cent of blocking chance? 75k is indeed a **** load of money, and whats the reason of spending so much money on a gun that cant do a thing? i think people arent buying it because of the damage, they buy it for the shield that comes with it (the damage sucks too). if that thing doesnt even block damage well, its just a giant waste of money which is unfair towards the people that bought it for the full price. you just cant deny the fact that it totally sucks now. people would of bought a better gun with that amount of gralats.  

Posted by Bas!

okay i was too lazy to read this whole conversation, but is it that hard to give the KSG atleast 50 EXTRA per cent of blocking chance? 75k is indeed a **** load of money, and whats the reason of spending so much money on a gun that cant do a thing? i think people arent buying it because of the damage, they buy it for the shield that comes with it. if that thing doesnt even block damage well, its just a giant waste of money which is unfair towards the people that bought it for the full price. you just cant deny the fact that it totally sucks now. people would of bought a better gun with that amount of gralats.

And this is why you should read the thread, because if you had, you'd of already read that I stated it blocks a percentage of damage, not a percentage of hits. /fail  

Posted by SnakeRekon

And this is why you should read the thread, because if you had, you'd of already read that I stated it blocks a percentage of damage, not a percentage of hits. /fail

whats that for an odd thing? if you have a candy cane melee you can beat the crap out of a riot shield. wtf?
sorry but that makes no sense. thats even worse.