Posted by PigParty

Granted, it all comes down to your true beliefs, but my pastor gave a pretty good sermon not too long ago. He described how some people want to create their own religion, and pick parts of it that they like, and leave the rest out. He said that you can't do that, otherwise you're just fooling yourself. If you believe in that religion, you can't pick which rules you want to follow. Nothing is ever easy, and following the rules of each religion applies to that. I'm a Lutheran, which doesn't have many of the weird rituals that many religions have. We basically just read the Bible straight up and don't try to interpret it too deeply, or read into something that has nothing to read in to. For me (and Lutheranism as a whole), God doesn't judge us. In fact, they stress constantly how he forgives you for everything you do, hence Jesus dying on the cross. We also believe that in God's eyes, all sin is equal. Murder is no worse than thinking bad thoughts about someone, or stealing, or cheating, etc. Most of the "rules" honestly are simple moral rules, that most people (inside or outside of that religion) believe themselves. Such as murder is wrong, adultering is wrong, etc. Christianity doesn't care much about what you do, but rather that you ask for forgiveness and attempt to change (which really is what people should do, regardless of religion). Religion is a strong motivator for many (and myself) to fulfill that change that we want. It does come down to your actual beliefs, but if you would believe in a God, or a religion, I truly believed what I heard in the sermon that you can't take what you like and leave out the rest.

Before this thread, you were cool. After this thread, you are my new best friend. Capiche?

_I'm gonna add a short piece_

Lets just for a moment, presume that Christianity is correct, everything about it is true.

And for this moment you are have been married for 20 something odd years, never raised your voice with them, never did anything to harm them physically or emotionally your spouse. Now if your spouse went out and fondue'd a good friend of yours. How would you feel? Bad. That's probably strongly similar to the way God feels when you stray away and fall in sin. He is heartbroken that someone he loves would fall away from a good life that has been laid out for them. You're welcome for that Cappin' America reference.

_I'm gonna ramble more_

On the subject of "Why does Hell exist?" we are gonna jump on in. Now you are on trial, You are as innocent as a bag of lettuce, and the defendant in as guilty as that chocolate bar you just swallowed whole. The Judge is about to give the verdict, you're exited because you know you are innocent... And BOOM... You are the one going to prison for life. Not fair? You didn't do anything and the guilty party gets off scott-free. And now you are on your death bed, right beside the same person that wronged you. And he gets to go to Heaven and you burn in Hell. How does THAT make you feel? You did everything right in your life, believed in God, went to church, prayed, repented, donated, heck! Even sacrificed! ... And you get the short straw. And the one that should be sitting in your chair is partying it up in Heaven, never stepped foot in a church once, blasphemed, and all that bad stuff. You deserve that, and he deserves this. But why? God is the Judge, Heaven means free-life, and Hell is the prison. The difference between walking free and imprisonment is the believe in God. People who have scoffed at God.. And turned away and never did anything for anyone but themselves don't deserve to have to have eternal happiness. They deserve to suffer, just like that guy who cut you off in front of Wal-Mart. Meanwhile those who knew what was right and believed in God get to live in Heaven with all of their fellow Believers. That is why Hell exists. The same reason prisons exist today. To keep the evil from mixing with the good.  

convert to pastafarianism we have holy spaghetti  

Posted by percy

Before this thread, you were cool. After this thread, you are my new best friend. Capiche?

_I'm gonna add a short piece_

Lets just for a moment, presume that Christianity is correct, everything about it is true.

And for this moment you are have been married for 20 something odd years, never raised your voice with them, never did anything to harm them physically or emotionally your spouse. Now if your spouse went out and fondue'd a good friend of yours. How would you feel? Bad. That's probably strongly similar to the way God feels when you stray away and fall in sin. He is heartbroken that someone he loves would fall away from a good life that has been laid out for them. You're welcome for that Cappin' America reference.

_I'm gonna ramble more_

On the subject of "Why does Hell exist?" we are gonna jump on in. Now you are on trial, You are as innocent as a bag of lettuce, and the defendant in as guilty as that chocolate bar you just swallowed whole. The Judge is about to give the verdict, you're exited because you know you are innocent... And BOOM... You are the one going to prison for life. Not fair? You didn't do anything and the guilty party gets off scott-free. And now you are on your death bed, right beside the same person that wronged you. And he gets to go to Heaven and you burn in Hell. How does THAT make you feel? You did everything right in your life, believed in God, went to church, prayed, repented, donated, heck! Even sacrificed! ... And you get the short straw. And the one that should be sitting in your chair is partying it up in Heaven, never stepped foot in a church once, blasphemed, and all that bad stuff. You deserve that, and he deserves this. But why? God is the Judge, Heaven means free-life, and Hell is the prison. The difference between walking free and imprisonment is the believe in God. People who have scoffed at God.. And turned away and never did anything for anyone but themselves don't deserve to have to have eternal happiness. They deserve to suffer, just like that guy who cut you off in front of Wal-Mart. Meanwhile those who knew what was right and believed in God get to live in Heaven with all of their fellow Believers. That is why Hell exists. The same reason prisons exist today. To keep the evil from mixing with the good.

I read most of this and what I comprehended was that you said that if you basically get accused of doing soemthin you didn't do and you end up in prison for life for it, that you go to hell? What? That's the stupidest ****ing thing I've ever heard of. Why the **** would "God" send you to hell for being falsely accused and then send someone to heaven to "party" for murdering someone? If this is what you said, you sound straight stoopid  

Why would Satan punish you for doing bad, committing sin, things like that, if he encourages you to do so? I see hell differently than all of you. In my mind, (if hell and heaven even exist, which I don't really think they do, but if they do...) hell has all the rebels, the LGBT+ people, etc. But they don't get punished. The Bible created the idea that you'll be punished to keep you inside a little religous bubble, but people like me learn to break out of the bubble and live our lives to the fullest. And hell is for those who break out of the bubble, to separate us from those who don't. And I mean, cmon, if you're someone like me..do you really want to end up in heaven? It's full of God fearing, bible reading, bubble people. Not exactly who I want to spend eternity with.  

What I'm getting from you guys is that Satanism isn't an actual religion since by standard religion definitions for it to be considered one you must believe that

• Something is real
• Said something has a controlling power
• You worship said something

To me it just sounds like Atheism with more complaining about how everyone is 3scared5u  

Well if you die, you are not living, and if your not living, you don't know what living is, and also would not be able to know anything since u would not exist, and even not existing wouldn't exist...hehe....so therefor, what the hell is heaven and hell?

I wouldn't mind living my life on repeat tho honestly...tho I may wanna try being a girl. That may be interesting.

**Also what if all our 'de ja vu' moments, are actually us remembering what we did in our previous life, and that we are actually just repeating this life, rarely remembering the previous ;D **  

warning: lots of text

Posted by percy

stuff

So the all loving god can sentence one of his people to eternal punishment? He loves/forgives you for your entire life, but then that all disappears when he sentences you to something worse than the void? That certainly seems strange.

But you say it's about separating the good from the evil? Well:

Posted by Fulgore

"Pirates are evil? The Marines are righteous? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history! Those who have never seen peace and those who have never seen war have different values! Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right! This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! The winners will become justice!"

Plus, even if you say "the bible tells me right from wrong" then I'll respond with this.

You were born to a burglar dad, your mother left. He teaches you to cheat, steal, and survive. He teaches you that stealing is the way of life for someone like you.
So you do, you steal from Christians, atheists, whomever. You still struggle to survive. You never help another soul because you can barely help your own. You commit sin after sin, unknowingly, because you weren't born in a first world country where religion is the way. You never see missionary's, because you are a thief, you don't hang around.

Eventually, you die. Then your judged. By what you said, this man should go to hell. But what did he do wrong? He had no chance. He never knew religion. He had to survive, and had to sin along the way to do so.

Just because you aren't born with a silver spoon doesn't mean you shouldn't have a chance.

Besides, evil and good are such a weak concepts. If we restarted the universe, right now, and instead of what we have now we had everyone do the good thing. Suddenly, your good is just normal. If everyone is like that then it isn't good anymore. Back to reality, Does doing the "good" thing mean something different to a poor man compared to a rich man? Does doing the good thing mean something different for a USA citizen, and a USSR citizen? If someone is raised in a society where murder is normal, should god judge them different? Well, that doesn't seem fair, if he does.

Perspective is different, circumstances are different, people are different.

(Note; im not against religion, I'm just trying to make you think).  

Religion is just a perspective.  

Posted by Mangsi

hell has all the rebels, the LGBT+ people, etc.

May I ask why you think this is the case? Because a book says so?

I am Catholic but I do not agree with everything the Bible says because it is outdated and not caught up with the current times.

If everything in the Bible was true then every person currently on Earth would be going to hell (assuming everyone has cut their hair at least once during their lifetime).  

Posted by Mangsi

Why would Satan punish you for doing bad, committing sin, things like that, if he encourages you to do so? I see hell differently than all of you. In my mind, (if hell and heaven even exist, which I don't really think they do, but if they do...) hell has all the rebels, the LGBT+ people, etc. But they don't get punished. The Bible created the idea that you'll be punished to keep you inside a little religous bubble, but people like me learn to break out of the bubble and live our lives to the fullest. And hell is for those who break out of the bubble, to separate us from those who don't. And I mean, cmon, if you're someone like me..do you really want to end up in heaven? It's full of God fearing, bible reading, bubble people. Not exactly who I want to spend eternity with.

Oh yeah, right. Lemme ask you you this. How many times have you been to jail ms.rebel? You cannot avoid rules, there will always be rules in any kind of environment to contain order. Sure, you broke out of the religious bubble, but than you've got all the rules (laws) to follow on earth. So how's that for breaking out of the bubble and no rules. Psh, get real. Life is all one big rule book.  

I can't believe people can call "Satan" the evil in the world and even believe in hell nor heaven, when it was God who had let millions of children, parents and animals die because it was simply "his will".

Posted by DJ Meow

Oh yeah, right. Lemme ask you you this. How many times have you been to jail ms.rebel? You cannot avoid rules, there will always be rules in any kind of environment to contain order. Sure, you broke out of the religious bubble, but than you've got all the rules (laws) to follow on earth. So how's that for breaking out of the bubble and no rules. Psh, get real. Life is all one big rule book.

She is saying something completely different, how are you even able to relate what shes saying with jail? She does not want to follow the rules of an old book which was written (imo) by hypocrites,

Posted by CM

May I ask why you think this is the case? Because a book says so?

I am Catholic but I do not agree with everything the Bible says because it is outdated and not caught up with the current times.

If everything in the Bible was true then every person currently on Earth would be going to hell (assuming everyone has cut their hair at least once during their lifetime).

Exactly because of that^

Most people who have evolved with time obviously realized that the church had to break their own rules to still be able to attract followers, because who in the right mind would support the things they've done in the past?

Now if you'd ask me, I think anyone who is still able to support the Church or any religion that did those horrible actions back then, needs to seriously rethink their choice in religion. Because if you would be disagreeing now with the things the christian church did back then, you would most likely get executed, so how could you still label yourself to that religion? Even if it has changed now, the first old book isnt going to.
Only one pope ever apologized but ykno, after a few thousand years. Bit late if you wanna ask me?


Most likely everyone on earth broke those, which means we are all literally going to hell, and imo thats the best place to be, RIGHT MANGSI
Because who the hell would prepare their entire life just to die and go to heaven?


Another really funny thing why most people have a weird image on satanists (laveyan ones I suppose):

Spoiler

The christian church spread the rumor that satanists will kidnap your children who arent christian and do horrible things to them.
So what all the people did was simply baptize their kids which brought a lot of income to the church, obviously.
No satanist in the right mind would do that but you know, people believed it and thats how the entire religion got into bad spotlight.
This wasnt even too long ago since Laveyan satanism was founded in the 60's.

Not trying to disrespect anyones religion here, I'd just like to see what people have to say about the things the church did back then.  

Posted by Yog

convert to papyrusism we have holy spaghetti

FTFY it's tough being undertale scum

Posted by Areo

So the all loving god can sentence one of his people to eternal punishment? He loves/forgives you for your entire life, but then that all disappears when he sentences you to something worse than the void? That certainly seems strange.

I think the logic behind it is that God gives you an infinite amount of second chances throughout life, however once you are dead, there is simply nothing else you can do (because they're dead).  

when we die we die

**** it  

Posted by Mangsi

Why would Satan punish you for doing bad, committing sin, things like that, if he encourages you to do so? I see hell differently than all of you. In my mind, (if hell and heaven even exist, which I don't really think they do, but if they do...) hell has all the rebels, the LGBT+ people, etc. But they don't get punished. The Bible created the idea that you'll be punished to keep you inside a little religous bubble, but people like me learn to break out of the bubble and live our lives to the fullest. And hell is for those who break out of the bubble, to separate us from those who don't. And I mean, cmon, if you're someone like me..do you really want to end up in heaven? It's full of God fearing, bible reading, bubble people. Not exactly who I want to spend eternity with.

Satan (according to Christianity) is actually condemned to hell himself basically. God created hell and satan is just binded to it because he (who actually was an angel) betrayed God. Gay people go to Heaven too... All you need to get to Heaven is believe in God, and that Jesus died on the cross for everyone's sins. Murderers can go to Heaven, adulterers can go to Heaven, transgender people, gay people, etc.

Posted by Areo

warning: lots of text


So the all loving god can sentence one of his people to eternal punishment? He loves/forgives you for your entire life, but then that all disappears when he sentences you to something worse than the void? That certainly seems strange.

But you say it's about separating the good from the evil? Well:

Plus, even if you say "the bible tells me right from wrong" then I'll respond with this.

You were born to a burglar dad, your mother left. He teaches you to cheat, steal, and survive. He teaches you that stealing is the way of life for someone like you.
So you do, you steal from Christians, atheists, whomever. You still struggle to survive. You never help another soul because you can barely help your own. You commit sin after sin, unknowingly, because you weren't born in a first world country where religion is the way. You never see missionary's, because you are a thief, you don't hang around.

Eventually, you die. Then your judged. By what you said, this man should go to hell. But what did he do wrong? He had no chance. He never knew religion. He had to survive, and had to sin along the way to do so.

Just because you aren't born with a silver spoon doesn't mean you shouldn't have a chance.

Besides, evil and good are such a weak concepts. If we restarted the universe, right now, and instead of what we have now we had everyone do the good thing. Suddenly, your good is just normal. If everyone is like that then it isn't good anymore. Back to reality, Does doing the "good" thing mean something different to a poor man compared to a rich man? Does doing the good thing mean something different for a USA citizen, and a USSR citizen? If someone is raised in a society where murder is normal, should god judge them different? Well, that doesn't seem fair, if he does.

Perspective is different, circumstances are different, people are different.

(Note; im not against religion, I'm just trying to make you think).

The Bible doesn't answer every question, and the question you posed is one of them. The Bible never tells you what happens to babies that die, or people who never heard of the religion. That's why it tells its followers to preach the word and spread it across the world. Honestly, though, in today's world, it would be extremely hard to never have even heard of Christianity. There's a story in the Bible where a rich person donates a lot of money to the church, but an old woman donates just a few cents. The old woman was praised for her deed because all she had was just those few cents, while the rich person still had much of his riches.

When is life ever fair? You want everything handed to you, but nothing worthwhile was ever easy. You think if there was a God that he should hand down everything for you? It's your job to overcome the challenges yourself, along with his guidance. Perspective has nothing to do with it if you involve religion in it. There's no perspective on good and bad. It is wrong to commit murder, no matter how you were raised. The whole idea of religion, though, is not what you've done, but how you change. You can't expect religion to simply be easy because we are all sinners. The goal is to overcome the challenges you face.

Posted by Vicipower

I can't believe people can call "Satan" the evil in the world and even believe in hell nor heaven, when it was God who had let millions of children, parents and animals die because it was simply "his will".



She is saying something completely different, how are you even able to relate what shes saying with jail? She does not want to follow the rules of an old book which was written (imo) by hypocrites,



Exactly because of that^

Most people who have evolved with time obviously realized that the church had to break their own rules to still be able to attract followers, because who in the right mind would support the things they've done in the past?

Now if you'd ask me, I think anyone who is still able to support the Church or any religion that did those horrible actions back then, needs to seriously rethink their choice in religion. Because if you would be disagreeing now with the things the christian church did back then, you would most likely get executed, so how could you still label yourself to that religion? Even if it has changed now, the first old book isnt going to.
Only one pope ever apologized but ykno, after a few thousand years. Bit late if you wanna ask me?


Most likely everyone on earth broke those, which means we are all literally going to hell, and imo thats the best place to be, RIGHT MANGSI
Because who the hell would prepare their entire life just to die and go to heaven?


Another really funny thing why most people have a weird image on satanists (laveyan ones I suppose):

Spoiler

The christian church spread the rumor that satanists will kidnap your children who arent christian and do horrible things to them.
So what all the people did was simply baptize their kids which brought a lot of income to the church, obviously.
No satanist in the right mind would do that but you know, people believed it and thats how the entire religion got into bad spotlight.
This wasnt even too long ago since Laveyan satanism was founded in the 60's.

Not trying to disrespect anyones religion here, I'd just like to see what people have to say about the things the church did back then.

The church was corrupt, and what they did actually went against the Bible and God. Also, why does everyone seem to think your actions determine whether you go to Heaven or hell? They don't. Also, why would you want to prepare your entire life to go to hell? The bible tells us that we cannot judge others, for we are all sinners. We don't even know what truly is right and wrong, we just developed our own concept of it. (Assuming Christianity is correct) Who would you be to judge the God that always was, and created everything you know? Our small-minded, ignorant selves on Earth cannot possibly comprehend the reasoning of a God that can do anything. Dying on Earth is partially worthless, because the real goal of life (again, assuming Christianity is correct) is going to Heaven. You think about when everyone died (I believe you're thinking when he flooded the world) but really they just died to be saved.

It is your own belief that determines what you think, but many of you are now criticizing how a Christian can believe this stuff when the Bible says (some story). But most of your stories, or the intentions or ideas of them are wrong.

Just a little add-on (maybe not so little). I'm a Christian but I support gay marriage. Sure, the Bible says it's wrong, and I believe that, but I don't judge others for it. I commit many sins every day, and in God's eyes, all sin is equal. Who am I to judge other's sins? In the perspective of a Christian, our life on Earth is one giant test for our eternal life in Heaven. Our Earthly lives are all about serving others and God, so that once we die on Earth, we can be rewarded with eternal life in Heaven, where everything is perfect (which no one can even comprehend).  

Posted by CM

May I ask why you think this is the case? Because a book says so?

I am Catholic but I do not agree with everything the Bible says because it is outdated and not caught up with the current times.

If everything in the Bible was true then every person currently on Earth would be going to hell (assuming everyone has cut their hair at least once during their lifetime).

I was going by what a lot of people still believe to be true today. I know people pick and choose what they want, look at most baptist Christians. All the Mormons I knew believed that LGBT people were going to hell, the churches I went to said that if you rebeled against god's word you were going to hell. Heck, half of my cousins, aunts, etc. Believe that anyone who disobeys the Bible are going to hell.

People pick and choose what they want to hear. So I Was going by what I've always heard from the people around me growing up in a Christian family.