Posted by Orbitus

No matter how many peaceful muslims there are, the extremists are still the problem. Those peaceful muslims are irrelevant just like how peaceful Germans were irrelevant during the reign of the Nazis. It's the bad ones that count.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, thats just a really bad analogy. Counter-insurgency is a way different issue than traditional warfare.

How do you solve the Nazi problem? Defeat the Nazi Government.

How do you solve Islamic insurgency? Obviously we don't know because its been a problem going on for over 3 decades.

Its not a problem that is going to be solved by closing our borders, putting Hellfires on terrorist leadership, or even just occupying the middle east (look at how well that has gone in Afghanistan for both Russia and the US).

Posted by PigParty

Islam is not to blame for this

It most certainly is, but its not the only thing to blame, and its not the root cause. Radical islam is an established belief that has existed in the Middle East for longer than your grandparents have been alive. I'd recommend looking into Wahhabism and how it has worked its way into modern islam, because if you are going to straight up ignore what the people committing these attacks believe, or cover your ears and say that its not real islam you are missing a huge part of the problem going on now.  

Posted by MrSimons

Its not a problem that is going to be solved by closing our borders, putting Hellfires on terrorist leadership, or even just occupying the middle east (look at how well that has gone in Afghanistan for both Russia and the US).

Agreed. It's an ideological issue. Bullets and bombs will only stop the current extremists, but they won't stop the ones that will continue to join extremist groups each day from now until possibly the end of time.

Posted by MrSimons

It most certainly is, but its not the only thing to blame, and its not the root cause. Radical islam is an established belief that has existed in the Middle East for longer than your grandparents have been alive. I'd recommend looking into Wahhabism and how it has worked its way into modern islam, because if you are going to straight up ignore what the people committing these attacks believe, or cover your ears and say that its not real islam you are missing a huge part of the problem going on now.

I don't dismiss Islam as being their excuse, and for some their belief. But to connect the two as a causation (which is exactly what has been done every time the connection is made) is false. Sure, radical views is a causation, misinterpretation/radical interpretation is a causation, but Islam is not. That's like saying Christianity is the cause of the KKK because the KKK justified their sick beliefs based on Christianity. Ignoring their beliefs is wrong, since it's an ideological battle, but so is overgeneralizing, which is exactly what I was pointing out when I said Islam is not to blame; because it isn't.

I will look up Wahhabism, though. Thanks for the homework.  

Posted by Orbitus

Remember that God is great. Now, go to Google Translate and them translate that to Arabic.

All jokes aside, these extremists got their claims from one book and you definitely know what that book is.

No matter how many peaceful muslims there are, the extremists are still the problem. Those peaceful muslims are irrelevant just like how peaceful Germans were irrelevant during the reign of the Nazis. It's the bad ones that count.

B b b but i just s s said d d dat  

Posted by PigParty

Agreed. It's an ideological issue. Bullets and bombs will only stop the current extremists, but they won't stop the ones that will continue to join extremist groups each day from now until possibly the end of time.



I don't dismiss Islam as being their excuse, and for some their belief. But to connect the two as a causation (which is exactly what has been done every time the connection is made) is false. Sure, radical views is a causation, misinterpretation/radical interpretation is a causation, but Islam is not. That's like saying Christianity is the cause of the KKK because the KKK justified their sick beliefs based on Christianity. Ignoring their beliefs is wrong, since it's an ideological battle, but so is overgeneralizing, which is exactly what I was pointing out when I said Islam is not to blame; because it isn't.

I will look up Wahhabism, though. Thanks for the homework.

Pretty sure it stems from Saudi Arabia, people like Zakir Naik preach that petty bs.  

Posted by Yog

We should pray to fix that.

We should pray for the Children  

Pray for my personal agenda.  

Posted by PigParty

http://www.graalians.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39041



Time to get serious.

Germans don't = Nazis.

Just as

Muslims don't = terrorists

The bad ones do count, so count them and only them, otherwise you're only helping the bad ones.



It helps the narrative to mock average people, minimum wage workers, high school students, etc for them saying on the internet to pray for the victims. It doesn't help the narrative to criticize the elected officials who are actually expected to do something to solve the issue.

We shouldn't care how many good muslims there are. The main problem is the bad ones. You can't blame people for being islamophobes when they know that most terrorists are muslims, though we're not saying that most muslims are terrorists.  

Posted by PigParty

It helps the narrative to mock average people, minimum wage workers, high school students, etc for them saying on the internet to pray for the victims. It doesn't help the narrative to criticize the elected officials who are actually expected to do something to solve the issue.

I wanted him to take the bait. Because some of these "'prayfor" weren't done by Islamists but i.e. Nazis aswell. Oh well, randomly spreading hate.. always sad, no matter who or what is being targeted.  

One of the terrorists was on a programme fricking based on jihadi's FFS, complete failure for Government and Mi5 was plain insight what he was stating in programme but hey human rights protects that BS... Time to go back to old ways and stop this human right crap it protects everyone and can be used so wisely, all them in that programme should also be fking executed no point deporting them to regroup and do somewhere else.  

Posted by Orbitus

We shouldn't care how many good muslims there are. The main problem is the bad ones. You can't blame people for being islamophobes when they know that most terrorists are muslims, though we're not saying that most muslims are terrorists.

yes, actually, you can

so you're saying you know most Muslims aren't terrorists, but it is okay to treat them as if they were?  

Posted by PigParty

yes, actually, you can

so you're saying you know most Muslims aren't terrorists, but it is okay to treat them as if they were?

I don't hate muslims. I have muslim friends. But you can't really blame people for seeing them like that. As I've said, most terrorists are muslims. That's more than enough to instill in some people's mind that terrorism is connected with islam.  

Posted by Orbitus

I don't hate muslims. I have muslim friends. But you can't really blame people for seeing them like that. As I've said, most terrorists are muslims. That's more than enough to instill in some people's mind that terrorism is connected with islam.

but you can still call them out for it and try to solve that overgeneralization problem.

can you blame white guys in Chicago for being scared of black people because most crimes in Chicago are committed by blacks, and most gang members are black people? Yes.

I can understand why people would be scared of Muslims, but it doesn't make it okay or right. They can be blamed for it and called out on it.  

Posted by PigParty

yes, actually, you can

so you're saying you know most Muslims aren't terrorists, but it is okay to treat them as if they were?

What a strawman  

 

Posted by Fulgore

What a strawman

ironic