agree w/james, granting seeds to teams that have previously placed in gsts just seems like a selfish "we're too lazy to guildspar so just put us in because we just won" idea. should just make the move back to a rating leaderboard which we have never had problems with for gst seeding.  

the GST seeding will still be done by rating.

the problem with a rating filter is that it really only applies to the season as a whole and not day/week/month.  

*shrug*

I just hate that people who mass tag can get infinite points now. Makes it a very daunting task to gs. Maybe it's subconscious bias that I don't want to have to get on and work for it. I think still that the loyalty of the guild system being changed would fix, or make it super easy to fix, a lot of these issues. If guilds lost points for tagging and kicking then we wouldn't see these rises. If loyalty was promoted then seeding could work cause teams wouldn't get new rosters every single season because they want to desperately try to assemble a star team. So many options revealed by that implementation, everything now just seems like putting a band-aid on a leak until you can fix the pipe.  

Probably far-fetched but I always thought it'd be cool if the amount of GS wins a player has on a certain tag, how active they are on it, etc, was recorded and used in some way

Like if a guild wins a spar match and it's the first win for each player on that tag, they wouldn't get as many points as they would if they had won the match and each had 10 wins on that tag already.

This could still be abused probably but it always seemed like a cool concept to me and would require you to GS with your actual team to get a high rating but I guess if you kept noob recruiting you could just boost wins for certain members while others were offline

I guess the idea is sort of like having it so each player has a personal rating in their guild, I'm not sure if it would work well on Graal though and it does have a nice list of flaws

Posted by Fulgore

*shrug*
If guilds lost points for tagging and kicking then we wouldn't see these rises. If loyalty was promoted then seeding could work cause teams wouldn't get new rosters every single season because they want to desperately try to assemble a star team. So many options revealed by that implementation, everything now just seems like putting a band-aid on a leak until you can fix the pipe.

I like that idea as well, RS sort of has a system like that and it works great but their guild system is much more in-depth.  

Yeah if I need 1000+ guild spar wins to enter the gst I don't think I would bother. The old points system was good because its more based on skill than who gses the most. Probably speaking for 90% of the spar community by saying I won't enter if I need so and so wins to qualify past noob guilds that mass recruit everyday. Fp4 or rufus, get off the high horse that you are on and admit these changes suck and just fix them zzz  

Posted by fp4

the GST seeding will still be done by rating.

the problem with a rating filter is that it really only applies to the season as a whole and not day/week/month.

Can the seeding for gst start only 1 week before gst? That would be great, and I can already see that a lot of "powerhouse" guilds would be very active during that time in order to get their placement. Especially now that idev and PC are mixed together. Only 64 teams?

Also as for guild leaderboards, the main thing that needs to be solved is the loyalty issue. It would be great if you could only join 1 guild at a time. If you leave, then you have to wait 1 hour to join another guild. If you kick a member then points would be lost for anything that member contributed to (gs, pks, towering). That way the leader won't just kick people just because they want to.

By only being in 1 guild, I guess it would be easier to track individual players' hours for towering, wins/losses for gs, and maybe in the future a leaderboard for guild pking.  

Posted by fp4

the GST seeding will still be done by rating.

the problem with a rating filter is that it really only applies to the season as a whole and not day/week/month.

Currently wins have a strong correlation with points and guilds don't lose points. Useless having 'points' in the filtering when we could have a skilled based rating system thats already implemented in the guilds profile. Irrelevant if it isn't in the day/week/month categories. Note: Please don't use that old gs rating leaderboard as that was flawed. If you tried gsing closer to the end of the season, gaining points in attempt to reach #1 was basically impossible. Make it like the old spar rating system.  

Lmao can't wait to see the devs reaction when gst comes along and they realize noob guilds who think they're the #1 gsers on the server who gs everyday spamming any free recruit they can gets placed in the gst rather then a guild thats more then capable of placing and winning or making it to the final.

It honestly makes no sense to have to spar in 1000+ gs's to enter a tournament that
1) Is already stacked with guilds that don't show up or don't have members online
2) Is plagued with lag
3) Is seeded terribly

I'm basically beating people 1000's of times over and over that I'd be in a gst anyway.  

I had a couple arguments with people claiming "real GS guilds" status while bashing "last minute teams," so this turn of events puts a smile in my face. Now these "real GS guilds" are forced to eat their words and actually start acting and GSng like real GS guilds. I love it.




Ok enough trolling, here's a somewhat serious suggestion for this predicament these "real GS guilds" find themselves in. Would it be too complicated to use a win percentage as the qualifying factor(not seeding). I think the seeding on the actual GST is less important than actually qualifying.

Here's what I mean:
Make a minimum required amount of spars(per season) to register a win percentage and when GST registration opens the win % would be used as the qualifying factor and the rating would be used for seeding. The # of days in a season (X) a certain amount of spars a GS guild should spar a day could be the minimum required amount of spars to register a win %.
Example: 100 days X 4 spars per day



If Fp4 meant the old scoring system is going to be used then I'm a noob and forget what I said. Not sure if he meant the rating of this current board system.  

Posted by fp4

the GST seeding will still be done by rating.

the problem with a rating filter is that it really only applies to the season as a whole and not day/week/month.

thanks m8
I didn't think of daily/weekly/monthly at all actually, you're right

Posted by Fulgore

I just hate that people who mass tag can get infinite points now.

and even when there was a rating-esque system, guilds would still do it (not even just noob guilds, "top" guilds would temporarily recruit people)

trickle-down qualification would be the best way, but I can live with rating

anyone arguing against that is effectively saying "no, Alumni, Blackout, CRZ, Rebellious, Apostles, and all those other guilds who have won countless GST rounds should have to invest 10 hours sparring noobs to qualify"
pretty dumb to me, winning rounds in the actual GST is a lot harder than beating (t0mmy picklez fan club) 100 times in the arena

every serious GS guild spars at Belle, we only bother with the arena for the tedious task of boringly getting points  

I'm not that active in the sparring community, but couldn't something like this work:

At the beginning of each season if want to GS you have to sign up for that season's guild spar (meaning, guilds and their respective leaders sign up and not players) and once you have signed up for that season, you only have 25 spots that you can use up, and you can't use up more than 25 spots. Once you've recruited 25 people, you can still kick some of them, you just can recruit more than 25 players that season. However, that would most likely eliminate the ability to tower and participate in other guild activites yeah idk lol  

Posted by fp4

the GST seeding will still be done by rating.

thanks.  

Posted by Thallen

anyone arguing against that is effectively saying "no, Alumni, Blackout, CRZ, Rebellious, Apostles, and all those other guilds who have won countless GST rounds should have to invest 10 hours sparring noobs to qualify"
pretty dumb to me, winning rounds in the actual GST is a lot harder than beating (t0mmy picklez fan club) 100 times in the arena

every serious GS guild spars at Belle, we only bother with the arena for the tedious task of boringly getting points

I don't get how if someone argues against that they are saying any of that at all? Sure winning GST rounds is hard but it's also completely irrelevant to the current seasonal GST. Previous seasons are over and the grind continues in a new season, I honestly could care less about previous seasons.  

Posted by Thallen

anyone arguing against that is effectively saying "no, Alumni, Blackout, CRZ, Rebellious, Apostles, and all those other guilds who have won countless GST rounds should have to invest 10 hours sparring noobs to qualify"
pretty dumb to me, winning rounds in the actual GST is a lot harder than beating (t0mmy picklez fan club) 100 times in the arena

every serious GS guild spars at Belle, we only bother with the arena for the tedious task of boringly getting points

Posted by Thallen

the rate at which Graal changes is so frequent that the data from an all-time leaderboard is skewed
examples: 2011-2013 was probably the best time to get fast spar wins by my experience, baddy killing was much easier a long time ago, PKing is much easier right now due to the massive playercount, there's a different tower meta than there was many years ago, etc.

there's no reason to show stale data, throw that in some little house in the same way spar and GST records are

Posted by Thallen

what happened years ago isn't relevant today, pretty simple

IDK man 2012-2015 was pretty easy to get GST wins. Not fair to the real 2016 GS guilds that are GSng with all this new real competition.





sorry fulgy I'm done lol  

Just realized by clicking on a guild you can see points as per the old point system (at least I assume) and outside of guilds like Demon or M8s, which are good teams anyways, most of the top ranked guilds are hovering in the low to mid 5000s. Kills me inside.