Posted by Aguzo

Lmao, Graal is going to have to start looking at re-plays now, since the players don't trust the staffs' decisions.

graal staff should record the gst from now on. cause spectator's script isn't helping much.  

I just think it's hilarious that you guys don't seem to believe that a computation performed by a machine is 5384758934759346 times less prone to error than some at-glance judgment made by a dude who has sparred maybe 100 times in his life (no offense to the host)

I get that the host probably wasn't paying 100% perfect attention to the last hit, but if it was automated in some way to announce who won the spar then it would have clearly shown that Rebellious won (if it truly did give them the popup saying they won)

Not to mention that the replay clearly shows 1 player dying first
The only time a spar is a tie is when both players die on the same frame... Delay has absolutely nothing to do with it, if either of them delayed then it doesn't matter because 1 of them died before the other, which means that they lost, that's how sparring works in every single arena on iClassic  

Posted by Thallen

I just think it's hilarious that you guys don't seem to believe that a computation performed by a machine is 5384758934759346 times less prone to error than some at-glance judgment made by a dude who has sparred maybe 100 times in his life (no offense to the host)

I get that the host probably wasn't paying 100% perfect attention to the last hit, but if it was automated in some way to announce who won the spar then it would have clearly shown that Rebellious won (if it truly did give them the popup saying they won)

Not to mention that the replay clearly shows 1 player dying first
The only time a spar is a tie is when both players die on the same frame... Delay has absolutely nothing to do with it, if either of them delayed then it doesn't matter because 1 of them died before the other, which means they lost

Both dying doesn't matter? Hmm still sounds like a tie to me. =o  

Posted by Thallen

I just think it's hilarious that you guys don't seem to believe that a computation performed by a machine is 5384758934759346 times less prone to error than some at-glance judgment made by a dude who has sparred maybe 100 times in his life (no offense to the host)

Oh man. that is a BIG offense bro
http://www.graalians.community/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19331&stc=1&d=1441599799 (Unsupported image host)  

Posted by Zetectic

http://www.graalians.community/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19331&stc=1&d=1441599799 (Unsupported image host)

Not trying to be mean, but honestly that just kind of supports my initial suspicion that he isn't exactly well-versed in the mechanics of sparring on iClassic or how matches should be judged... I'm sure he did his best though, because I don't think it announces which team won (like it does in the Battle Arena). I wouldn't really blame him, I'd blame the fact that it doesn't tell him who won.  

Posted by contego

Glad you agree it was VIS and not let fail scripts decide outcome when clearly everyone can see both died. =o ehehe

The problem is, these "fail scripts" have been deciding the outcomes of single spars and guild spars since forever.

Still not on either side of the argument. I still dont care.  

Aguzo ._.
Edit: Lertcon was actually really nice, and he was calm/understanding in all of the rounds regardless of what other people on the forum was saying about him in the past few pages. He didn't argue with anyone when they were basically yelling in his face in the Finals room lol.  

Posted by Thallen

Not to mention that the replay clearly shows 1 player dying first
The only time a spar is a tie is when both players die on the same frame... Delay has absolutely nothing to do with it, if either of them delayed then it doesn't matter because 1 of them died before the other, which means that they lost, that's how sparring works in every single arena on iClassic

What does it mean if 2 people don't "die on the same frame"?
You can kill people after you're dead?
Seems like something the laggier player would do.
Laggers look like they die last, but Graal scripts determine them the winner.  

Posted by Thallen

Not trying to be mean, but honestly that just kind of supports my initial suspicion that he isn't exactly well-versed in the mechanics of sparring on iClassic or how matches should be judged... I'm sure he did his best though, because I don't think it announces which team won (like it does in the Battle Arena). I wouldn't really blame him, I'd blame the fact that it doesn't tell him who won.

I'm pretty sure they have some sort of tool that tells them who won. But he wasn't paying full attention to the match to notice a player dying before the other. VIS players saw the pop up saying "you lost the spar" and desperately stood next to him saying "tie" to see if he gave them a redo and he did lol  

Posted by LiA

Aguzo ._.

Wasn't directed towards you or anyone else. I was actually being honest about that post, since in futbol the ref's decision is usually final.

Meanwhile in football, and baseball they watch the replays in tough situations.

For these type of issues to not arise, maybe a real-time viewer should be added, instead of the choppy one. Also, staff should have some sort of monitor to watch replays for the "what just happened?" moments.  

Posted by rickclops

What does it mean if 2 people don't "die on the same frame"?
You can kill people after you're dead?
Seems like something the laggier player would do.
Laggers look like they die last, but Graal scripts determine them the winner.

Even if Kouji was the laggier player, it wouldn't matter. If you are 0.5 vs. 0.5 against Sarah and she's using 3G, if she dies first then you are the shown as the winner 100% of the time.
No one can show a single example of a player dying second and being declared the winner or anyone dying first and being declared the loser. That's not how any script in the arena works. It doesn't make human errors like that. Domi clearly died first in that replay, and hit detection is verified serverside so I'm sure it told VIS members that they lost the spar.


That kind of makes it pretty clear...

I don't have anything for or against either team, but Rebellious won based on that replay and the server seems to agree with that if they're telling the truth about receiving the popup. It's not as if it's going to be a reversed decision though, but just putting it out there. Lertcon probably isn't to blame. I don't fault him for not being able to judge it accurately, but it should be automated so that he doesn't need to.  

Posted by Thallen

Even if Kouji was the laggier player, it wouldn't matter. If you are 0.5 vs. 0.5 against Sarah and she's using 3G, if she dies first then you are the shown as the winner 100% of the time.
No one can show a single example of a player dying second and being declared the winner or anyone dying first and being declared the loser.

Human error? You've never seen laggers walking around after they're dead on Graal? You must be the only one there. An analytical person like you also has seen many instances of a laggier person being sliced, walking around for a second, hitting the other player, then dying after their opponent.

In a spar room we have no option but to go by who the script determines as a winner. GST though has a precedent of hosts restarting matches at their discretion.  

I can't believe that you all are arguing over who won this spar when it's too obvious.
What is done is done and I'm glad VIS won the GST they did a hard work in it unlike Rebellious.  

Posted by rickclops

Human error? You've never seen laggers walking around after they're dead on Graal? You must be the only one there. An analytical person like you also has seen many instances of a laggier person being sliced, walking around for a second, hitting the other player, then dying after their opponent.

In a spar room we have no option but to go by who the script determines as a winner. GST though has a precedent of hosts restarting matches at their discretion.

Show me a recorded example of a player dying first in a spar and it being declared a tie or a win in their favor
Until then, there's really nothing else I can say from my side that hasn't already been said

When your hit registers on a player at 0.5, no matter what their ping is, the death animation starts
Two players can hit each other simultaneously, with one registering first, due to several circumstances
The player that dies first loses
If they die at the same time, it's a tie

If this GST went by the same system that they use in every single other spar in the game, then Rebellious would have been declared the winner
It didn't, so VIS was declared the winner  

3 Cheers for VIS, Deity, and Lertcon!

Hip hip hooray! ^^