This aint sparring grounds.  

Original MoD Fort

• A battlefield rather than a tower
• Many baddies, and two baddy-spawners act as a bottleneck to entry
• Healing area with narrow entry
• Small indoor room
• No flag
• No special respawn points

MoD Fort from when I started playing until the first server wipe

• Same outside tower as today
• A gate in front that has 10HP, and you can only do damage with a guild tag
• A long fence after the gate forces players to take a long route to get to the fort entrance
• Door into tower has 10HP, and you can only do damage with a guild tag
• Two narrow bottlenecks in the downstairs room
• Balls (what those mountain spiders shoot) get shot at you if you're not the defending guild
• Flag has 20HP
• Only enemies can hit the flag
• The first person with a guild tag to touch the flag once it reaches zero HP takes the flag
• No special respawn points

2006 MoD Fort (my design)

• Direct to entrance (much like today)
• Entry requires guild tag
• Slightly reduced bottlenecks
• Wall holes for archery defense
• Healer exclusive to defending guild in the back of the inside room (later replaced with preferred respawn)
• Non-exclusive respawn point in front of tower (no preferred respawn in 2006, attribution error on my part)
• Holding flag for two minutes results in victory
• Fifteen second delay between matches
• One-hit HP flag

What I want to see:

• A flag with lower HP
• Discrete victories for holding the flag for a defined period of time
• An average time for a victory to be obtained as 15 minutes
• Sustained flag switching an average 3.5 times (i.e. taking the flag and maintaining it, as opposed to a short-lived ambush)

 

Posted by deadowl

Original MoD Fort

Attachment 21600

• A battlefield rather than a tower
• Many baddies, and two baddy-spawners act as a bottleneck to entry
• Healing area with narrow entry
• Small indoor room
• No flag
• No special respawn points

MoD Fort from when I started playing until the first server wipe

Attachment 21601
Attachment 21602

• Same outside tower as today
• A gate in front that has 10HP, and you can only do damage with a guild tag
• A long fence after the gate forces players to take a long route to get to the fort entrance
• Door into tower has 10HP, and you can only do damage with a guild tag
• Two narrow bottlenecks in the downstairs room
• Balls (what those mountain spiders shoot) get shot at you if you're not the defending guild
• Flag has 20HP
• Only enemies can hit the flag
• The first person with a guild tag to touch the flag once it reaches zero HP takes the flag
• No special respawn points

2006 MoD Fort (my design)

Attachment 21604
Attachment 21603
Attachment 21605

• Direct to entrance (much like today)
• Entry requires guild tag
• Slightly reduced bottlenecks
• Wall holes for archery defense
• Healer exclusive to defending guild in the back of the inside room (later replaced with preferred respawn)
• Non-exclusive respawn point in front of tower (no preferred respawn in 2006, attribution error on my part)
• Holding flag for two minutes results in victory
• Fifteen second delay between matches
• One-hit HP flag

This is exactly what Forts should be like.  

Quit with this: Doorhealth/low hp/2min event crap fun was back when it was highhp/old spawns/having to continuously pk for the fort not hit it like 20time and have already everything now was just set up for a sparrer small(spar area)flag rooms/low hp/no heal pots/spawns set for defensive stance/stamina on weapons like wtf..When noone of old towerers ever asked for this, only started to change once sparrers got bored with sparring and there was not much being done to improve it at the time.  

Posted by G Fatal

Quit with this: Doorhealth/low hp/2min event crap fun was back when it was highhp/old spawns/having to continuously pk for the fort not hit it like 20time and have already everything now was just set up for a sparrer small(spar area)flag rooms/low hp/no heal pots/spawns set for defensive stance/stamina on weapons like wtf..When noone of old towerers ever asked for this, only started to change once sparrers got bored with sparring and there was not much being done to improve it at the time.

bro towers at classic always sucked. its a little more fun when theres competition but tbh its dead 90% of the time  

I went on recently and since all them changes have happened it seems alot more dead now then it was back then, I do agree another design/how to get tower etc should possibly be done to spice things up but not really a fan of bashing through doors that have hp just to get to flag(especially if they can heal/I think that's more the problem everythings more set out on defending now while attacking was the fun part)  

huh? not following you. We just want towering to have more competition. Holding a fort for an hour to 24 hours straight, isn't competition. its boring. Towers should be hard to hold, should take 15 active people who are nonstop playing and FIGHTING to keep it, at all times. You go to towers now, its all relaxed, not much struggle.  

In no way should towers be easier to defend or harder to attack... They're only fun when they're active, and they're only active when there's an expectation of them changing hands.

Suggesting that towers were better many years ago does not compute to me... Sardon's is pretty difficult to lose right now. Reflect for a second and remember that at one point:

• The flag had 200 HP
• You could block the flag door
• There was a wall bordering the flag door
• You could block the hall door
• The halls were narrower making and completely impassable
• You literally spawned an inch from the flag

How could any competent guild lose that tower, and why would any competent guild waste time attacking it? I don't see how that can be encouraging, fun, competitive, or anything other than easier for the guild that has the most players online at 4 AM EST and manages to snag it. I don't think players mind towers being harder as long as they are more fun and rewarding.

In terms of design, I think all of them are fine right now except Swamp and DW. The long, narrow pathways and stairs make it impossible to outplay anyone and make it too easy for a single smart player to block the path of 5+ attackers. DW was at least improved with the spawn point being moved back.  

Posted by G Fatal

I went on recently and since all them changes have happened it seems alot more dead now then it was back then, I do agree another design/how to get tower etc should possibly be done to spice things up but not really a fan of bashing through doors that have hp just to get to flag(especially if they can heal/I think that's more the problem everythings more set out on defending now while attacking was the fun part)

Okay, so when your talking about doors with HP, I wasn't proposing anything, I was describing guild forts from 1998 to 2006. In 2006, I removed doors with HP in guild forts. It has remained that way since.

What I said regarding what I want to see with the current guild forts:

• A flag with lower HP
• Discrete victories for holding the flag for a defined period of time
• An average time for a victory to be obtained as 15 minutes
• Sustained flag switching an average 3.5 times (i.e. taking the flag and maintaining it, as opposed to a short-lived ambush)

I'm not confident the late 2006 system would hold up to the current server population with a 1-hit flag. That's why I'm using relatives in what I'd like to see (hold flag for fixed amount of time like 2min for victory with an average time to victory of 15min and the expected number of sustained flagholder changes being 3 or 4 times per 15 minutes. I mention lower flag HP because I doubt it's possible without lowering flag HP.  

Stuff like the blocking entrance etc made more pkers in one spot things like healing pots etc was actually a good thing for both, but cutting out the stamina on combat weapons(said it before THIS AINT SPARRING GROUNDS) loses the spark of fun when you slow the combat down, even stuff like mod outside being none pk kills the vibe like okay it's annoying having pk mobs there but it makes more entertaining seeing them get pk's and also makes the tower more complicated for the defenders as the pkers would join in on guilds attacks..Oh also horses in towers was actually fun, guys take away all fun attack stuff.


Now its just like oh well 1k hours sucks now(part from last few with gd chance of hat) and why the hell would we go for lots of hours for some gralats and a little plack that we can only buy on stuff tim who bought some gralats can buy also, woo we get vip and another candle hat! just what firemansam woulld have wanted.. they can't even go for being high on ldrbds now(Not to mention that there is no history still of how the full ldrbd ended when it went to seasonal-why the hell anyone want to get time if they are brushed aside now) its all this seasonal stuff that works well for pk/spar etc but guild wise I think it's pretty poor anyone with right mind would just keep joining the ones high up on it to take reward  

wtf is this guy yelling "this isn't sparring grounds" lmfao. As if my opinions don't matter because I spar? I also used to tower, and when i go tower now I see nothing changed.

briefly, the issue with towers is how easy it is to hold them for HOURS. like illusive, had 14days of tower time in a week. Really? Like the system shouldn't be the way it is.

We need to get rid of the whole thing that PROHIBITS you from hitting your allies. And make the guild Capacity limit to 50-100. Then we need to make there be a penalty (subtracting score) for kicking members, so kicking and recruiting stops. (honestly get rid of allies)
Then we need the structure/Flag health to make it so that towers "switch hands" all the time, and keeping a tower for more than an 15 minutes straight should be REALLY hard to do. Should take constant concentration, no sitting around and AFKing and AFK blocking doors. Lmfao

Posted by G Fatal

Quit with this: Doorhealth/low hp/2min event crap fun was back when it was highhp/old spawns/having to continuously pk for the fort not hit it like 20time and have already everything now was just set up for a sparrer small(spar area)flag rooms/low hp/no heal pots/spawns set for defensive stance/stamina on weapons like wtf..When noone of old towerers ever asked for this, only started to change once sparrers got bored with sparring and there was not much being done to improve it at the time.

wtf are you saying LMFAO. Bro you realize towering on classic now works like this, Guild leaders recruit 10 people who aren't busy IRL, so that they can be "perms" those ten active RECRUITERS sit there and recruit their friends to the sub guilds, eventually sub guilds get filled up, meaning theres always a decent amount of people online, that decent amount of people sit there staring at a flag with TWO HUNDRED HP? wtf. Easy to hold, no fun.
We aren't asking for "an event". We are asking to fix the broken towering system by making it more competitive and harder to hold. If you think kicking and recruiting is a competitive thing, your off your rocker.  

Only broken thing is the guild system, Qes and G-fatal are arguing over things that'll never be tweaked. Take away the allies feature and add in 50-65 guild slots (100 is a bit extreme) refund any guild owner xAmount of gralats for the ally feature they payed for then change the leadership and co leadership system so it actually works like a guild.

Hopefully the new guild system that is currently being worked on abolishes the current meta of spam recruiting new players and ordering them to sit at a flag or be kicked.  

If you want to make it harder why the hell are players accepting stuff like no horses in forts stamina knock on combat weapons no pk outside mod accepting change of spawns(done ages ago) If you guys really wanted it to be hard you'd have all this back but even then you'd be bored as noone gives a **** bwt a seasonal guild ldrbd for a plack and money prize..so until they change that and also remember the past ldrbd nothing will change in competitiveness even if the forts had 20hp as whats point of working for your guild to not be remembered and to get a prize that can only buy stuff any other player can already buy ongame.  

wtf is this kid saying lol.  

for 1 i'm not a 'kid'anyways Like you say you want forts hard yet you also want:-no horses
-no pk just outside fort(mod) so no pkmobs that bring fight also to fort
-no spam of bombs and arrows(simply because it apparently evens gameplay out-forts arnt meant to be even(like telling isis to fight with missiles to even it out)
tell me how this stuff makes not harder for defence?



Personally I've always wanted a graal server to make it so there is no allies and guilds can only have 10players in would make it harder to noob recruit as majority would want to be perm, this would create more guilds around, also decreasing the towers again to like 3 maybe would result in bit more activity(like castle/sardons/swamp or something)