you may be able to make a playable level easily, but making a beautiful level that shows detail without errors or looking weird isn't easy. Level making is an art. When I worked as a trial LAT on Kingdoms iPhone everything had to be perfect. No symmetry, colors couldn't clash, and there had to be properly displayed npcs and just the right amount. Compare the Nexus with lots of floor and wall detail to a building like the bank, much more appealing. This proves that LATing does in fact take skill in all cases.  

Still not seeing the light in it.
To give a level detail all you have to do is paste a ton of random objects inside so that you "mask" the actual level itself, how do you think large grassy areas are formed?

Besides, the bank was a level that has been on Graal for a LONG time, Azrael just recently made a flashy Nexus as a gimmick to sell hats more often. Back then, Azrael's Night Club was a respected level. Levels have grown to an extent where we often only accept the best of the best levels, and some people refuse to realize this, and are still making crapfest levels that would be good only in Zelda Online's era.  

Posted by BroozeB

Still not seeing the light in it.
To give a level detail all you have to do is paste a ton of random objects inside so that you "mask" the actual level itself, how do you think large grassy areas are formed?

Besides, the bank was a level that has been on Graal for a LONG time, Azrael just recently made a flashy Nexus as a gimmick to sell hats more often. Back then, Azrael's Night Club was a respected level. Levels have grown to an extent where we often only accept the best of the best levels, and some people refuse to realize this, and are still making crapfest levels that would be good only in Zelda Online's era.

You didn't respond to my previous post.

If you fail to understand that making a level is more than just making spastic designs then I guess you just fail to see it. Don't know what else to say.  

Posted by MattKan

You didn't respond to my previous post.

If you fail to understand that making a level is more than just making spastic designs then I guess you just fail to see it. Don't know what else to say.

In your case it seems you're talking more about highly reputable leveling rather than what the topic is focusing on. It was mire if advice to a lot of the iPhone idiots like Danixfun who seem to fail to understand their leveling is nothing of skill, but rather just a copied and pasted product (Rather poorly made as well) that anybody could have made.
Take for example Scripting, it's like if somebody thinks they've mastered the skill by a simple command like "canbecarried".  

There definitely is a skill to level making, just like there's skill in graphics design and scripting.

All I see is you complaining about the inexperienced who try to sell themselves as "good" level makers and others who rely heavily on scripted effects to enhance their levels.

FYI: "Good LATing" is not all about using NPCs in fact that's quite the opposite.

Good level makers (Crono and WanDaMan come to mind) are proficient at making most of the limited tileset their given which separates them from the "bad" level makers you are complaining about.

Also, the **** have you actually accomplished to declare such bull****?  

Posted by BroozeB

In your case it seems you're talking more about highly reputable leveling rather than what the topic is focusing on. It was mire if advice to a lot of the iPhone idiots like Danixfun who seem to fail to understand their leveling is nothing of skill, but rather just a copied and pasted product (Rather poorly made as well) that anybody could have made.
Take for example Scripting, it's like if somebody thinks they've mastered the skill by a simple command like "canbecarried".

Yeah, we all know there are people like that out there, but is it really necessary to make an entire thread about that? It's just giant spam, in my honest opinion.

And as far as that not being the topic of the thread... Well you were debating it with us for several posts and now you finally say this.

It's like you made this thread just to criticize people. Not only that but you've mentioned specific names. Stop trolling.  

Posted by fp4

There definitely is a skill to level making, just like there's skill in graphics design and scripting.

All I see is you complaining about the inexperienced who try to sell themselves as "good" level makers and others who rely heavily on scripted effects to enhance their levels.

Good level makers (Crono and WanDaMan come to mind) are proficient at making most of the limited tileset their given which separates them from the "bad" level makers you are complaining about.

Also, the **** have you actually accomplished to declare such bull****?

None, Graal's Mac Client fails me.  

Posted by fp4

There definitely is a skill to level making, just like there's skill in graphics design and scripting.

All I see is you complaining about the inexperienced who try to sell themselves as "good" level makers and others who rely heavily on scripted effects to enhance their levels.

Good level makers (Crono and WanDaMan come to mind) are proficient at making most of the limited tileset their given which separates them from the "bad" level makers you are complaining about.

Also, the **** have you actually accomplished to declare such bull****?

It's nice to see you critcizing someone else besides me ( ;) ) because you're completely right.  

Posted by BroozeB

None, Graal's Mac Client fails me.

So you can't even open the Graal client on your Mac and you're somehow proficient enough in development to make such baseless statements as level making takes no skill?

Scripting, and graphics design don't take skill to get into either. Anyone with a text editor, or graphics package like Paint can make a script and draw a sprite too. Does that mean there's no skill in scripting or graphics design as well?  

Well it seems clear to me that Brooze hasn't had much exposure to good LATing  

Posted by fp4

So you can't even open the Graal client on your Mac and you're somehow proficient enough in development to make such baseless statements as level making takes no skill?

Scripting, and graphics design don't take skill to get into either. Anyone with a text editor, or graphics package like Paint can make a script and draw a sprite too. Does that mean there's no skill in scripting or graphics design as well?

Actually it's because Stefan has not scripted a default leveleditor, ganishop, and all the graphics found in the game (bodies, heads, etc) are unclear of their whereabouts.
Actually scripting is not a skill you can just learn overnight. It's more of something you have to perfect and actually LEARN rather than just copying an pasting. When scripting you'll find many bugs and glitches in the level when you just copy and paste out of a website, or any such place.
Graphics however stray into the category of needing constructive criticism to perfect. I'm sure most people can agree when they made their first hat someone had suggested to add shading, and I've seen many people become successful this way. With leveling it's either too ****ty or too good to benefit from others ideas, only time constructive criticism comes into play is when there's a staff member working on a new area for a specific server, but that depends if the owner is lazy enough to even care in the making.  

Some people make scripts by copying and pasting
from the forums.  

I have go disagree. Look at some kid from iPhone with is level, now look at a level Skyzer or Dusty made.  

Looks like my time to weigh in. You see that Level making is a skill and a good one. Look at Mattkan's avatar which is detailed from what i could tell which takes skill.  

Let it be known that BroozeB is an idiot, and being good at level making does in fact take skill.