Can someone who was sparring pre-Facebook describe what the sparring community of that time was like? I'd like to see if my memory is being starry-eyed.  

Posted by Rufus

Can someone who was sparring pre-Facebook describe what the sparring community of that time was like? I'd like to see if my memory is being starry-eyed.

Pretty much the same attitude-wise, but a bit more players and a much younger crowd. Lag/delay weren't complained about quite as much and players weren't blamed nearly as much as they are now. I think an increase in competitiveness as the average age increased may be part of that. Also, the attitude is poisonous and spread easily through the community.  

Posted by Rufus

Can someone who was sparring pre-Facebook describe what the sparring community of that time was like?

There were no spar leaderboard, therefore there weren't people who spars for the ratings. Before all that, it was a calm sparring community. Since there were no PC players at the time, there were no discrimination. We had a warm welcome of players from Asia. No one called them "delayers" because there were no competition, just sparring for the enjoyment. There were NO profile status for a short period of time, so we didn't have people typing hate statuses towards another. The spar rooms literally was a great place to socialize at the time. We weren't limited to only Battle Arena; places like Master Li's, Belle Island, and Sardon were nice environments to spar at. A lost was a lost, a win was a win. Childish excuses didn't exist. YOU people didn't exist in this serene community.




Compare this to today's community.  

When I first started playing iClassic I used to frequent the spar arena with NiTe. We used to stand at the bottom left of the main room and people were always in there, talking and waiting for their spars. The overall tone of that sparring community was positive and the players were honestly very friendly to each other. There was a leaderboard, but I don't think anyone really paid much attention to it. 'Good sparrers' certainly weren't being judged through it. Boosting did exist (you guys made up the term, we would have called them 'lamers' or 'laming' in PC) but I don't think it detracted much. There was a larger Japanese playerbase at this time and Ryo was probably the best of them. The use of the word 'delay' was not yet in the community's vocabulary.

The above could describe the in-game sparring community today. I wouldn't know if it does or not. However, if I were to judge from every spar thread that is posted on here, it certainly seems that things are different. Might just be a 'vocal minority' thing, but if that's not the case, I'd say most 'problems' exist due to social factors. A lot of these factors are probably derived from the competitive aspects that were heightened/implemented in content that was added (lol) and I doubt that they can be changed back/be repaired for some of you! Removing the leaderboard and the individual 'device rooms' would be a good start though IMO.  

Posted by Thallen

It all comes full circle to "the scrub": http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playi...in-part-1.html (favorite link in the world)

"Sparring against a bad sparrer in a public room where anyone is freely able to queue is boosting."


"Sparrers who unwillingly delay, wall, or spam are not real sparrers."


They try to impose these hilarious rules to curb "being a good sparrer" more towards the mold they conveniently fit. If you're on a streak and some awful sparrer repeatedly queues, they expect you to unqueue or something. You're a "booster" because you are enjoying yourself and sparring against anyone and everyone who queues against you. It's just hilarious to me to watch people sit on the sides of the spar, call people "boosters" for sparring against someone who queues against them, yet not queue themselves.

It's like they haven't figured out yet that no one cares about their opinions, who they respect, or how they view anyone within the community. That's why I actually respect an "IDGAF" sparrer like Sarah. Yup, she delays because she's in France. Yeah, she spars defensively and "walls" because she enjoys it. What are you going to do to stop her from enjoying herself? Cry about it? Call her names because you aren't having fun? Go for it. I can tell you right now that it'll never bother her.

No imma win then get blocked  

Thanks for cleaning up the thread, Darlene!  

Posted by Striken

Comparing Thallen to Comyt is quite stupid. I mean they're completely different sparrers and people for that matter. If you look at Thallen, he doesn't always spar noobs, he just joins queue whenever he wants and doesn't be a baby about every little detail of this game. Comyt however is just a kid that selective spars and thinks he's so good by getting #2 on idevice leaderboards by abusing a bug to reset his rating, nor is he good at all since I've beat him and seen him get whooped numerous times. That being said, shut up.

lolol single stupidest thing ive read all day.  

I like Ruf's thoughts and his idea for a first productive step. I don't know if something like that should be left to a single staff member to decide, though. I feel like the community should somehow have a say in what happens to change that community for the better. I'm sure many people would agree anyway.  

I'm totally in for removing the specific device rooms; all it does is attribute to the skewed mindset that different devices have some giant advantage over others. If we're going to remove the spar leaderboard, I think that it would also be nice to have a spar W/L reset. I like the leaderboard because it gives me a current update on my success in sparring, rather than my atrocious record which I still retain back when I was a noob.  

You guys are suggesting changes that seem influenced by this small portion of players (the majority of which aren't even active enough in the sparring community to give a real impression of what it's like) who are whining. You're suggesting taking away things from sparring rather than adding to it or improving on what we already have, and I don't agree with that.

A huge number of people would support the idea to remove the leaderboard, and it'd be for a selfish reason. It wouldn't be because they think it'd improve the spar community (because it wouldn't IMO), they'd agree that it needs to be removed because they don't like the players who reach high positions on the leaderboard and/or can't beat them. It's the same reason why there's never been a major push for a singles spar tourney. Why would 95% of the community support that when they see they have no chance to win it?

Treating this as if "competition" is what has harmed the community is a joke. I don't want to spar in a community where there is no competition. If you want to spar for fun then there's Master Li's. If anyone is under the impression that the leaderboard, a system that does absolutely nothing other than serve its purpose and show who has sparred a certain way that allows them to achieve the most points at any given time, is what is hurting sparring then you're deluded.

The problem with the sparring community is the people who make up the community and there's no better proof than some of the things that have even been posted in this thread:

• People having absolutely no understanding for the mechanics of the game
• Players complaining that the spar system is broken when they themselves admit to constantly abusing it
• Players parading themselves as the best and stirring up drama yet constantly avoiding the opportunity to have fun, be competitive, and prove it
• Delayers complaining about other delayers

That's just a few symptoms. It's clear that the issue with the current spar community is the immaturity and general attitude of the average "sparrer" because look at the PC leaderboard for the last year. Name one PC player who complains like this. Dante, Thallen, David, Nadine, Enmity, Jack, iHercules, Winter, Abel, Chris, Exalt, etc. That's just me going down the list of names currently on that leaderboard.

How many of those players have you seen whine and complain? The PC community has delayers, you know? Nadine, Destroyer, Aarian, etc. How come there is never this crybaby drama in our community of players? It's just the iDevice players for some reason. Why is that? I'll let you guys come up with your own theories, but the correct answer is because our community of players is generally older and more mature, more friendly, more welcoming to competition, less dramatic, and we spar to enjoy ourselves.

So yeah, take a little bit of responsibility and blame yourselves. There are very few people in this thread that actually represent the current sparring community, so let's quit judging it based on posts made by players who haven't sparred 1000 times in the last 6 months. The problem isn't the way sparring currently works because it hasn't changed. The problem is you guys.  

Getting rid of the leaderboards isn't a good idea. Why not have sparring seasons and offer incentives for people to get on the leaderboards. Something assimple as a medal or a hat awarded to the top 100 at the end would help draw more of a crowd to spar. A singles spar tournament at the end of each season would be a great way to end each season. Having 64 people compete may seem like a lot to handle but I think it is something that can definitely be done.  

Posted by -Albus

Getting rid of the leaderboards isn't a good idea. Why not have sparring seasons and offer incentives for people to get on the leaderboards. Something assimple as a medal or a hat awarded to the top 100 at the end would help draw more of a crowd to spar. A singles spar tournament at the end of each season would be a great way to end each season. Having 64 people compete may seem like a lot to handle but I think it is something that can definitely be done.

100% agreed on both leaderboard rewards per season and a singles tournament. For a leaderboard prize, I think the leaderboard would need some tweaks to the points system (ahem, my thread), but I think it'd be awesome. People are acting as if the solution to making sparring more fun is to make it less competitive and I completely disagree.  

Posted by Thallen

How come there is never this crybaby drama in our community of players? It's just the iDevice players for some reason. Why is that?

Gee, I wonder why...
You say PC sparrers never complain and iDevice sparrers always complain. You think device users are stupid for thinking PCs have an advantage or are more difficult to spar. Yet 90% of device users believe this... Last time I checked stupidity wasn't diagnosed as a contagious epidemic; nor has intelligence ever been related to the client-type you use (in short, mass complaints like this must have a basis). iDevice sparrers actually make use of the iDevice tournament room, but the PC tournament room is always empty... Just a few observations.

Now my own opinion. I dont care about how much / little PCs lag. Yes, PCs typically have shorter latency, causing delayed hits for the other, but its usually do-able. I just dont like sparring certain PC players because most of them overuse slide movements that arent even possible for iDevices. Honestly I dont see why this wasnt fixed in the last two years. Its not logical to be walking and facing right but actually moving straight down.  

Posted by twilit

You think device users are stupid for thinking PCs have an advantage or are more difficult to spar.

Quote me where I said that.

Posted by twilit

(in short, mass complaints like this must have a basis)

I don't know where you came up with that quotation. "If a lot of people say something is wrong, it must be wrong." This thread has proven to me that the vast majority of you don't even understand simple mechanics of the game like hit detection and client vs. server lag, so I don't even want to get back into a discussion about the specifics of sparring.  

Sorry, that snippet wasnt directly to you.

Posted by Rezon

I'm totally in for removing the specific device rooms; all it does is attribute to the skewed mindset that different devices have some giant advantage over others.

Posted by Thallen

"If a lot of people say something is wrong, it must be wrong." This thread has proven to me that the vast majority of you don't even understand simple mechanics of the game like hit detection and client vs. server lag, so I don't even want to get back into a discussion about the specifics of sparring.

What Im saying is iDevice sparrers notice a distinct difference between sparring PCs and other iDevices, but because most people dont understand game mechanics, people immediately blame it on "lag"