FP4 is the greatest update ninja ever, no petition or rage thread will ever tempt him to speak about his work

Thanks for your hard work anyway and take your time, your efforts will be greatly appreciated by me

Can't speak for anyone else though  

Posted by Red

The people posting in this thread such as david, thallen, agonee, zorma, bryan, mikva and myself all participated in sparring, towering and guild sparring ACTIVELY prior to incentives being removed.

If top tier players refusing to play the game as whole because of this main reason (and the guild system being incredibly slow) then there is a huge issue.

Look at these people, past towerers, sparrers and bkers who refuse to touch graal because the incentive just isn't there, its incredibly dumb how many people this has driven away.

(or they've grown bored of the lack of content)

I'm well aware not all of these are great examples.

Posted by Basi

4-lom, reemas, and lox, you guys need to sit down for a while and think. youre literally arguing against betterment of the game

Check your priviledge. Read what was bloody well said. Flamers like you guys defeat the purpose of the forums. Oh, and those are some cute numbers. Let's see you do this.

Posted by LoX

Just adding, that my first point I made literally clarifies that, for me at least, I never said anything about arguing against any of that, I argued against points that individuals made yes, but as a whole no I didn't

They think they're hot sh!t and superior to everyone else because they pvp. They are not interested in real debates and just have little else to do than pet their egos.



Couldn't help myself.  

I'm sorry that you've a huge problem and can't think properly, as David mentioned earlier, PKers that PKs have a bigger influence on PKing than you, no one of us would come over to your Bug Catching/Competetive RP guide thread and start saying ******ed nonsense stuff and end up getting mental  

Posted by Agonee

I'm sorry that you've a huge problem and can't think properly, as David mentioned earlier, PKers that PKs have a bigger influence on PKing than you, no one of us would come over to your Bug Catching/Competetive RP guide thread and start saying ******ed nonsense stuff and end up getting mental

There were, indeed, a few idiots who tried to derail the thread I generated regarding the daily bugs desired by the witch, making poo poo pee pee jokes (to use your unoriginal term, ******ed). However, you are not adressing the points that were made, instead choosing an ad-hominem argument which fails to tie in to the pk/bk/spar/tower thread. I was making a point relating to said thread. GG.  

Posted by 4-Lom

Check your priviledge. Read what was bloody well said. Flamers like you guys defeat the purpose of the forums. Oh, and those are some cute numbers. Let's see you do this.

Attachment 23775



They think they're hot sh!t and superior to everyone else because they pvp. They are not interested in real debates and just have little else to do than pet their egos.

Attachment 23776

Couldn't help myself.

You´re either a troll or You really just don´t get it.
You catch bugs and others tower, spar or pk. You´re better at bug catching and looting and they´re better at their competitive aspects.
What is Your reason for bug catching and looting? For many it is the gralats, that´s their incentive.

Without incentive there would be no motivation to do any competitive things at all. People want things to brag about and stuff to show for their achievements, a reward for all the effort they put into whatever they were doing. If there is nothing to show for it, most players will just stop.

For example, if they took away or heavily nerfed the Gralat rewards You get from Bugs/Looting that many of the Players, who do these things, would complain and eventually stop doing these activities. Or imagine if You had no way to show us all of these bugs You caught and loot You retrieved, how would You feel?
Wouldn´t it suck to not be able to display Your achievement?

People don´t want to pet their egos. They want to Tower/Spar/PK and have fun on Graal (and maybe have their retired friends return as well).

I don´t know if a comparison like this has been made before, I skimmed through some of the posts in this thread but picture this:

Professional Football Players wouldn´t get paid anymore for competing in tournaments, thus they stop doing so. Now worse players, who previously had no chance in these tournaments, compete in these Tournaments and play (For Honour or some **** maybe). But it´s also a lot less, than when You would get $$$ for winning.
Now, a smaller group of people competes and from the perspective of someone who doesn´t know anything about Football at all it looks like it´s just fine. But those who played in those tournaments or spectated them know that it´s a dead scene. They know that the thing they once loved doing/watching is on a decline.

I don´t know if You just hate others and don´t want them to enjoy something, or if it´s some kind of personal grudge You have against Sparrers/BKers/PKers, but arguing against betterment of a game You play Yourself is stupid.

Also I made this many comparisons in this post to help You understand, because You don´t seem to.
Also sorry for this wall of text lol competitive communities are something i am passionate about  

Posted by Void

You´re either a troll or You really just don´t get it.
You catch bugs and others tower, spar or pk. You´re better at bug catching and looting and they´re better at their competitive aspects.
What is Your reason for bug catching and looting? For many it is the gralats, that´s their incentive.

Without incentive there would be no motivation to do any competitive things at all. People want things to brag about and stuff to show for their achievements, a reward for all the effort they put into whatever they were doing. If there is nothing to show for it, most players will just stop.

For example, if they took away or heavily nerfed the Gralat rewards You get from Bugs/Looting that many of the Players, who do these things, would complain and eventually stop doing these activities. Or imagine if You had no way to show us all of these bugs You caught and loot You retrieved, how would You feel?
Wouldn´t it suck to not be able to display Your achievement?

People don´t want to pet their egos. They want to Tower/Spar/PK and have fun on Graal (and maybe have their retired friends return as well).

I don´t know if a comparison like this has been made before, I skimmed through some of the posts in this thread but picture this:

Professional Football Players wouldn´t get paid anymore for competing in tournaments, thus they stop doing so. Now worse players, who previously had no chance in these tournaments, compete in these Tournaments and play (For Honour or some **** maybe). But it´s also a lot less, than when You would get $$$ for winning.
Now, a smaller group of people competes and from the perspective of someone who doesn´t know anything about Football at all it looks like it´s just fine. But those who played in those tournaments or spectated them know that it´s a dead scene. They know that the thing they once loved doing/watching is on a decline.

I don´t know if You just hate others and don´t want them to enjoy something, or if it´s some kind of personal grudge You have against Sparrers/BKers/PKers, but arguing against betterment of a game You play Yourself is stupid.

Also I made this many comparisons in this post to help You understand, because You don´t seem to.
Also sorry for this wall of text lol competitive communities are something i am passionate about

^^^this sums it all up^^^  

I used to tower quite a bit, but with the major decrease in activity, and decrease in any incentive, I just can't have fun doing it anymore. Guilds used to rival each other for hours over a tower, and it was great. The competition, whether it was for hats or not, was very cool.

With the hat-chasers around to cause most of the competition, along with the occasional pkers looking for some kills, there was always something going on at each tower.

Nowadays, I'm only seeing the weak guilds taking towers, which is lame. Occasionally, I'll see older guilds taking the towers simply for fun, which is great.

As for pking, I just kill random people for fun. I can't even boost if I don't care about how many kills I get, I simply like going around and pissing people off as they go by on their mounts. There's a huge stigma on pk boosting. Pking, for me at least, is just something else to do. I have fun just walking around every pk area in graal and just killing randoms. Surely that can be better than sitting in one place pking.

Spar is a different story. Occasionally, I'll see some booster or hacker in any room, which is never cool. Boosting or hacking has really increased over the last year or so, and it really sucks for many of the newer players, or every player in general, who spars for fun or competitively. I simply like to run into the main rooms and try and just destroy some of the streakers. Sometimes I'm successful and am able to completely crush the people that have been streaking a lot, or I simply might get my ass completely handed to me.

But, when we have some kind of booster or hacker of any sort, or some major delayer, it really dampers the experience. If there is some person from south america or the eastern hemisphere dominating the streak rooms, I don't even bother. I want to be able to have fun sparring, but it can feel like a chore sometimes.  

Posted by Void

Also I made this many comparisons in this post to help You understand, because You don´t seem to.
Also sorry for this wall of text lol competitive communities are something i am passionate about

I understand very well. I just don't take people misrepresenting their stance or being fusspots for no reason very well. The majority of the posts here are from angry young kids who don't quite know how to express themselves, not mature people having a discussion about a solution which is what the forum is for, no?

Much appreciated that you seem to care, but you, again, like a lot of the folks jumping on my case for being from a different demographic in the game, didn't read what I said and made assumptions... This was the specific blow by blow I made earlier...

1.) There are sparrers, pkers, tower guilds currently operating
2.) Towers are occupied with players who WANT to tower, and not just hat chasers
3.) Spar tournaments happen multiple times a year
4.) Other areas of the game do not have the same focus or attention
5.) Guild system has been a long time coming, but some areas of the game (which may be valid to you or not) that are enjoyed by many players are neglected
6.) I look forward to a guild system update that harmonizes the blatantly skewed leaderboard system and the non-competitive forms of gameplay into a singular group activity with incentives for all.  

Posted by 4-Lom

There were, indeed, a few idiots who tried to derail the thread I generated regarding the daily bugs desired by the witch, making poo poo pee pee jokes (to use your unoriginal term, ******ed). However, you are not adressing the points that were made, instead choosing an ad-hominem argument which fails to tie in to the pk/bk/spar/tower thread. I was making a point relating to said thread. GG.

Did you not read my post about loot/bug catching being debuff, archery being a 2-man queue to compete for a high score that doesn't change once you hit 9800, for a town that only exists because new content arrives, and the plague of hackers that are coming because the security system of Graal in itself is easily manipulative. I asked Dusty twice if he's able to do something about it such as auto-disconnecting players if they enable a speed hack or enter into "God Mode", but nothing. How it is possible Roblox has much success than Graal when it comes to dealing with cheaters is mind boggling.

Towering
In my opinion, towering died back in 2014-2015. Ever since the use of alliances/truces, it's been killing its competitive aspect. I don't even know what's the use of "allies" when it's only used as a sub guild to hold the main guild. The removal of the old system and announcing the new system was definitely mishandled. Majority of the players "not just the pkers/sparrers" were expecting the new system out in June 2016 since the news stated the old system was being removed in May 25 around there. Huge disappointment with the handling of such vital information to the community.

PK/BK
Players that enjoy Bking are striving with the expansion of new areas and baddies so there's no issue with that. Pking has died down since there are less players towering (see the connection). The only good things that have been added for Pking are limiting players from rioting and trying to make them PK at forts but again if they aren't that many towering, you barely scratching the surface.


Spar
There are plenty of suggestions that can be implemented to improve this section of the game. I think having rooms like the one GST Viewing Section can reduce the wait time to spar. Meaning far more matches can be done simultaneously. I also think the required online time to spar should increase to at least 50-100 hours to reduce potential hackers. If you increase the required time to spar, it might prevent them from waiting out several days just to annoy or disrupt the gameplay of others. There's a War Room in the Arena that doesn't even get any activity. I was thinking a 10v10 match with the environment changing to ice, grass, lava, etc in the War Room.


Overall
The game needs changes in every aspect of the game since there all connected to each other. Whether it'd be single or group related.  

Posted by Bryan*

Well composed thoughts

Cheers, man. That's discussion. Must spread rep :/  

Posted by 4-Lom

I understand very well. I just don't take people misrepresenting their stance or being fusspots for no reason very well. The majority of the posts here are from angry young kids who don't quite know how to express themselves, not mature people having a discussion about a solution which is what the forum is for, no?

Much appreciated that you seem to care, but you, again, like a lot of the folks jumping on my case for being from a different demographic in the game, didn't read what I said and made assumptions... This was the specific blow by blow I made earlier...

1.) There are sparrers, pkers, tower guilds currently operating
2.) Towers are occupied with players who WANT to tower, and not just hat chasers
3.) Spar tournaments happen multiple times a year
4.) Other areas of the game do not have the same focus or attention
5.) Guild system has been a long time coming, but some areas of the game (which may be valid to you or not) that are enjoyed by many players are neglected
6.) I look forward to a guild system update that harmonizes the blatantly skewed leaderboard system and the non-competitive forms of gameplay into a singular group activity with incentives for all.

Isn´t a forum is mainly for discussion and sharing thoughts, though?
That´s what most of this is on here.
I only Guild Spar, so I don´t really associate with PK/Towering and neither with Single Spar.
Anyways..

1. &2.) Look at the Football Comparison I made in my previous post.
3.) Indeed, I haven´t mentioned that, don´t think that Guild Spar was the main focus in this thread
4.) That´s true and it´s sad. iClassic still needs a lot of work, just because some communities are more vocal about their disliking of the current situation doesn´t mean that other areas of the game don´t need work.
5.) Maybe the NGS (if it´s even going to happen) fixes that as well?
Or it would be the focus after the NGS is released.
6.) Me too, buddy  

I agree.. though I've been playing mostly for the social aspect, I do wish there were a bit more things to do.

So what exactly is the major consensus on what the update actually is? Towering currently consist of opposing guilds vying for the flag, which in the past was made much more competitive due to the 1k hour hat prize. A guild is made up of a max of 25 players, each able to ally with up to 5 other guilds. Each player can also be tagged with up to 5 different guilds. What is going to change?  

Posted by 4-Lom

1.) There are sparrers, pkers, tower guilds currently operating

I don't know why you keep repeating this. There's probably 1/5th the number of towerers as there were in 2014-2015. It's probably the same fraction of PKers. "Some people do it so it's in good shape." Bulletproof logic.

Posted by 4-Lom

2.) Towers are occupied with players who WANT to tower, and not just hat chasers

I don't know why you keep repeating this either. "There are 50 people who are towering with no rewards compared to the hundreds that towered with rewards, so everything is fine." What? You're not even making sense. What does their motive even have to do with anything? Why are you using phrases like "hat chasers" which have zero relevance to the discussion of how inactive the towers are?

Posted by 4-Lom

3.) Spar tournaments happen multiple times a year

There are four of these per year… Again, you're changing the topic from the guild system to things you're bad at. No one is asking for spar tournaments. Why are you so narrowly mad at the idea of sparring? Are you aware this thread is about a guild system? Go to any GST thread and look at this guy's posts. He literally comes to threads like these and concern trolls just because he's bitter towards sparrers. It's bizarre to me.

Posted by 4-Lom

4.) Other areas of the game do not have the same focus or attention

You suggested a fashion content earlier. I don't think you understand that the majority of players want something that is a non-temporary solution to incentivize all elements of gameplay. That's what the guild system is.

Posted by 4-Lom

5.) Guild system has been a long time coming, but some areas of the game (which may be valid to you or not) that are enjoyed by many players are neglected

I don't think you know anything about the guild system. Maybe you aren't aware that players have been pushing to have things like bug catching and gralat farming incentivized with points.

Posted by 4-Lom

6.) I look forward to a guild system update that harmonizes the blatantly skewed leaderboard system and the non-competitive forms of gameplay into a singular group activity with incentives for all.

That's strange considering the majority of your posts in threads regarding it seem like attempts to derail and shift focus towards other things.  

here to say great job to the people encouraging new guild system and also i've read some of Reemas responses to these claims and i've never seen someone so stupid talk crap in these forums. Reemas you're getting roasted by everyone just leave go back to burger refugee roleplay, standing in BA all day and socialize with such garbage spar community or just try to make yourself feel better by joining one of those noob elite guilds like zanza omnes or idk there's a new one of those everyday. u can cry all u want but i'm not gonna reply cause i know how these type of kids go with their reasoning. i'm out  

Posted by Thallen

I don't know why you keep repeating this. There's probably 1/5th the number of towerers as there were in 2014-2015. It's probably the same fraction of PKers. "Some people do it so it's in good shape." Bulletproof logic.

You're putting words in my mouth, hm? Misrepresenting my argument, here. I'm saying that there are people towering, not that it's at peak performance.

Posted by Thallen

I don't know why you keep repeating this either. "There are 50 people who are towering with no rewards compared to the hundreds that towered with rewards, so everything is fine." What? You're not even making sense. What does their motive even have to do with anything? Why are you using phrases like "hat chasers" which have zero relevance to the discussion of how inactive the towers are?

What other systems/behaviors in the game had such specific rewards? I think that tower (and spar, to some extent) have gotten special treatment in a game that is, in a decent cross section, split between people who partake of these activities and people who don't. And that's just fine. You don't see bug catchers asking for hats, though.

Posted by Thallen

There are four of these per year… Again, you're changing the topic from the guild system to things you're bad at. No one is asking for spar tournaments. Why are you so narrowly mad at the idea of sparring? Are you aware this thread is about a guild system? Go to any GST thread and look at this guy's posts. He literally comes to threads like these and concern trolls just because he's bitter towards sparrers. It's bizarre to me.

Your tense shifts here, so it's confusing to read, but I think you're calling me a no account troll? I generally read everything in the classic subsection, here. I choose not to comment when I don't have an opinion, but, like was previously mentioned in an above statement, conversation is what the forum is for. If you have a problem, there are moderators and various account options relating to your preferences as to whose posts you see or not, as I'm sure you're aware.

Tldr: I'm not bitter towards sparrers, I just don't back down when ignorant people call me names for no apparent reason other than not having a logical argument.

Posted by Thallen

You suggested a fashion content earlier. I don't think you understand that the majority of players want something that is a non-temporary solution to incentivize all elements of gameplay. That's what the guild system is.

Put it to a vote. I bet you'd be surprised how many people would be interested in 'fashion content.' If you're talking about people who partake in other aspects of gameplay, there are tons of different ways that people choose to spend their time in this game (look at those military guys...). Official systems that benefit all play styles are definitely the need of the hour.

Posted by Thallen

I don't think you know anything about the guild system. Maybe you aren't aware that players have been pushing to have things like bug catching and gralat farming incentivized with points.

Like I said, I read almost everything in the Classic subsection. I mentioned exactly this indirectly in the following comment I had made (Looking forward to a unifying guild system).

Posted by Thallen

That's strange considering the majority of your posts in threads regarding it seem like attempts to derail and shift focus towards other things.

Note I didn't insult you once, even though my opinion may differ from yours.