This is like seeing a football team cheating or using steroids, and instead of trying to condemn their behaviour you go and have your own team cheat and use steroids and say its the only way you can compete.

The point isn't that everyone needs to do those shady things to be able to beat them, the point is to get the abuse of the system stopped so loyal groups of your 25 friends can compete and it's fair. Then none of this noob recruiting and sub guilds could be done. I've made posts before with how to fix the guilds, you'll notice most the opposition of it is from players in guilds known for noob recruiting and sub guilds.  

Posted by Higbey

This is like seeing a football team cheating or using steroids, and instead of trying to condemn their behaviour you go and have your own team cheat and use steroids and say its the only way you can compete.

It's actually nothing like that at all.

It's a very clever tactic and it's 100% fair because anyone can do it. If you have enough people willing to join your guild and stay loyal, odds are they'd be fine with making subs.  

Anyone can cheat. Does it still make is fair? It's not the way the recruiting and kick tools and allies and guilds were intended, for a reason.  

Posted by Higbey

Anyone can cheat. Does it still make is fair? It's not the way the recruiting and kick tools and allies and guilds were intended, for a reason.

Using something to your advantage doesn't automatically mean it's cheating.  

Posted by Yephenpeace

Name 2 guilds that don't have subs.

Death corps, Jin dynasty, Amitoune, the Original snow assassins (not the knockoff that became more successful by doing those cheap tactics.)

Say the balamb ship warp could glitch out and make you invincible, if I used that to my advantage would that still be bug abuse? It's not wether its part of the game, it's whether you using it as intended.  

Posted by Higbey

Say the balamb ship warp could glitch out and make you invincible, if I used that to my advantage would that still be bug abuse? It's not wether its part of the game, it's whether you using it as intended.

You make terrible comparisons... how are sub guilds "bug abuse". It's a smart system that many guilds use and is widely accepted by Graal. If it was against the rules they wouldn't give guild hats to more than 25 people.  

guild allies were meant for ALLIES not subs, 25 members was supposed to be 25 members that stuck and never got kicked unless they broke guild rules.
but instead we have people abusing allies for subs and kicking people for guild space all the time.
screw camparisons and your sensitive feelings if you do the following i stated you are indeed abusing the idea of a guild  

Posted by qes

guild allies were meant for ALLIES not subs, 25 members was supposed to be 25 members that stuck and never got kicked unless they broke guild rules.
but instead we have people abusing allies for subs and kicking people for guild space all the time.
screw camparisons and your sensitive feelings if you do the following i stated you are indeed abusing the idea of a guild

Who are you to say guilds are wrong for using a certain tactic? You seem to be blatantly disregarding all the valid points i'm making. Please read some of the things people are saying, otherwise i'm not even going to bother to formulate a response. If it was abusing the system Graal wouldn't condone it by giving hats to more than 25 people.  

I believe it is stated that guilds were to recruit your friends (up to 25) and take towers with them. Not make a guild were you recruit anyone around the tower to fill up guild space and kick any inactive members for more room so you can constantly have 25 online players, half of whom you don't know, allies are for allies. An ally is a seperate person or group of people that shares your common goal and supports eachother, it's not called "system to bypass the 25 per guild rule by making one guild have the members of 4 guilds".

Here Is a perfect example, people used the showadmins command to check if alot of gps were on do they knew when it would be safe to glitch. So they removed it.

It was part of the game, and it was used, but not in the intended way.

Thats my point. Instead of condoning it and also doing it because of it being the only way to be able to compete, they should punish it and change it  

Posted by Higbey

I believe it is stated that guilds were to recruit your friends (up to 25) and take towers with them. Not make a guild were you recruit anyone around the tower to fill up guild space and kick any inactive members for more room so you can constantly have 25 online players, half of whom you don't know, allies are for allies. An ally is a seperate person or group of people that shares your common goal and supports eachother, it's not called "system to bypass the 25 per guild rule by making one guild have the members of 4 guilds".

Where was this stated?  

If they wanted you to make subs they would say sub instead of ally.  

Posted by Godzilla

no, the hat was just the cherry on top. you don't really know the story so you can't really talk. basically i just came back from quiting for a year and wanted a guild. i messaged you, and saw advent, and asked you what it was and i got recruited. at first i loved it, having a tower a lot, making a few new friends, etc. and it was even after the fact that i was recruited that i knew you were a tower taking guild. then at around 900 hours i started to look around. we had deadwood, and i just saw the AE's (co-leaders) telling people to block the left and right staircase. i questioned them, i tried to correct them, saying that if we spread ourselves out we'll be more successful. this is the response i got: "are you questioning the AE's?" "dude, shut up, were fine" "lol godzilla your asking for it" (from an AE) "god, dont question us, we work hard here, and we've been doing this for a while". now at that point i was just like whatever let them do what they want. but i figured the leaders did'nt really know what they were talking about, and it was pretty stupid to just ignore a tip from a member. so i decided i would try to climb my way to the top of the ranks, and try to get my opinions heard. at this point i had also talked to some of my old friends, and they've talked to me about asking to join zanza, or making a new guild with some friends where i would have a leadership position of sorts. but for the time being i turned them down. why? because i saw a few gems in advent. ilazr, mik, pain, even you were people i respected. in fact i still respect you guys. but looking back it was really only you. i mostly hated everyone else. but anyway on with the story! the second time was when we had snow at around 950. i was skating around, no one was attacking, so i decided to take a walk outside, look around at some shops, see whats new, look for rps people, because keep in mind i just got back from a year. so i was skating around, staying in snowtown if i was needed, and we had plenty of members there. so i was skating around and guild chatted about something in the mad hatter i think. and then, "GODZILLA GET BACK TO SNOW RIGHT NOW OR YOUR KICKED!" at this point i was just laughing at how seriously these AE's took themselves, and made some response like "yes supreme leader", or something. and then the flood of "HEY SHUT UP HES AN AE AND YOUR NOT! KICK HIM!". but i still wanted to stay. not as much, but i still kinda liked it. in between all this i also experienced annoying spam, no free time to myself, and crappy members who could'nt kill pkers whenever we had snow or castle, which was a lot of the time. then at 975, we had snow again. this was the thing that made me begin to disrespect advent. about 3 separate times some noob came in asking to join. every time he was recruited, then kicked when he went offline. so i went up to one of the AE's and told him that we shouldn't noobcruite because we get mad at other guilds for doing it, and we want members who will listen to us, and are friends, not just random people. but then he swiftly responded that it wasn't noobcruiting. that noobcruiting was recruiting random people. what they were doing was recruiting temps. the temps asked to join first. my mistake xD. but i still wanted to climb the ranks in order to try and change the guild to be better. it was after 1k that things snapped. basically walking along i saw rockson, an old GoD member from back in the day. so i messaged him D00M FTW!! this is when we did'nt have a tower btw. so we chatted for a while, shared memories. he recruited me to GoD, and i was being spammed so i accepted it, and put the tag on for a little while. then i recruited him to D00M too. so we chatted for about another hour, then i logged off, logged back in and we had a tower. so i went to put my sub tag on and...kicked. now i get it if someones innactive, but i took the tag off for an hour. thats not that big of a deal. this showed me that the guild leaders were power hungry, and that i could be kicked for doing even the tiniest thing. from there i asked to be recruited again, was, and went and helped at whatever tower had for a little while and went to bed. but there i knew in that climbing the ranks would be very difficult, and that im best off just getting the hat and leaving. this was not where i belonged. i mean i helped you guys a lot, i thought i deserved it. i stayed with you till Saturday, making other estrangements with friends, and then right before the party boom, kicked again for spamming the guild chat even though i wasnt even guild chatting. i swiftly got recruited again by the some nice leader, complained about power abuse, then shut up for the next 15 mins about. then the party came, i was excited to get the hat, and get out. i decided to start the new guild with my friends. so i logged out because there was some sort of complication, and then i logged back in and saw everyone had it. i asked you and you said i was too late. by now i was just like fk this im out of here. and i left. and did criticize you guys when i was in the guild. but it was always met by a power hungry leader threatening to kick me.

see all this stuff?^^^

this shouldnt be what a guild is. i agree with you guys. guilds are being too abusive of the system right now.

for the few days i was out of the guild i didnt touch you guys. but when i saw a person arguing that advent V was a good guild, i couldnt resist. because really, you guys arent. but if you can take comfort in anything its knowing that your still better than some guilds. at least i think...

the reason i use you as an example is because i experienced you. i was in it and i saw all the flaws. im not about to go start talking about a guild being bad i know nothing about.

Being in the guild as long as you did, you don't have any right to judge a guild's quality. Like Vyse said, if you walked into a Target and a couple employees were rude, does that give you any room to bash Target for being bad? What about noticing the good things about Target, like all the variety of items they offer you?

I've been in Advent V before towers, and I can tell you it was an amazing decision. I was promoted to an AE within 1 1/2 weeks of joining. I've also made some amazing friends along the way that I will never, ever forget. Real friends, who I Skype with for hours on end. They help me out with my problems, I help them out with theirs. They're great company during my all-nighter sessions due to my insomnia.

If you ask me, Advent V has definitely been the best guild I've been in, since December 2009. I've been in Cruxis, Project Soul, and Pulse for a short while. All of these guilds are great, but the people and leaders in Advent are what I think, sets us apart from most guilds I've been in. <3  

Wow, this is still going? I don't know why this is even an argument. Go get 25 loyal members and form an exclusive guild, or go make a family style tower guild with subs, it really doesn't matter. No need to bash each other for which style they prefer. The point of this game is to have fun, not to control how other players experience it.  

Magic ftw. Made this over a year ago XD

 

Sometimes I lose faith in the iClassic community.

Exploits like this happen, and there isn't much stopping it. The only fix I see for this is disabling allies, which is a game-breaker. Look at Black Ops - they fixed two major exploits, quickscoping and dropshotting. The only methods that could be used to fix it killed the purpose of the tactics, and made the game play out from its unintended way.

This won't be fixed, it's useless to argue about such trivial things. Guilds will utilize the ally system the way they want, whether it be for towers, family guilds, or solo. There's no use in arguing about it now. Play the game you want to play it.