Posted by twilit

iDevice sparrers notice a distinct difference between sparring PCs and other iDevices

That's because there is a game mechanic that is available to PCs (strafing) that is unavailable to iDevices. There's no denying that, no PC player can realistically tell you that PC sparring vs. iDevice sparring is "equal." There is a difference. If people want to consider it to be an advantage, then I wouldn't be mad at them over that. I've never tried to argue against that. My only comment on this situation is that Graal gives everyone the opportunity to spar by PC or by iDevice. You are free to make your own choice, and it'd be really ignorant to claim that players who play Graal by PC do it only for this "advantage." It's simply not true. Many of us have played Graal from PC for years and we wouldn't want to spar any other way.

There are mechanical advantages to sparring on iEra and iZone if you use an iDevice rather than a PC. If I sparred there, I couldn't bring myself to complaining over it because I understand I have the option to use my iDevice. I just don't want to.

Posted by -Albus

Getting rid of the leaderboards isn't a good idea. Why not have sparring seasons and offer incentives for people to get on the leaderboards. Something assimple as a medal or a hat awarded to the top 100 at the end would help draw more of a crowd to spar. A singles spar tournament at the end of each season would be a great way to end each season. Having 64 people compete may seem like a lot to handle but I think it is something that can definitely be done.

Getting back to this though, I'll repeat what I said in another thread. I really think that there are some fairly simple changes to sparring on iClassic that administrators could make that would make it more active and enjoyable for a really long time.

1. Revise the leaderboard in a way that is simple to understand and does not incorporate risk. The majority of iClassic sparrers have proven they can't handle risk. They'd rather not spar at all to avoid the risk of losing points. If they feel like they can only gain points by sparring more often, it would greatly benefit sparring.
2. Incentivize this new leaderboard to make sparring active and competitive. Every season, award the top leaderboard position with a prize. I don't care what it is. A hat, a NPC, a belt, a statue, a trophy, whatever. Something that will give them incentive to want to win.
3. Bring back hat rewards for spar wins to give all players an incentive to spar. Spar hats should have never disappeared. There should be automated ways to handing them out. Make a new room in the Battle Arena where players can redeem them after reaching, 1000, 5000, 10k, 25k, and 50k milestones. Players that already have this amount of wins can immediately redeem them. This gives everyone, even casual sparrers, a reason to participate and want to spar. I know some of you out there wouldn't be thrilled over a leaderboard reward because you believe you wouldn't have a chance at winning it, but I know how much you guys love hats. At least this would give you something to work towards.

I seriously believe if all three of those things happened at the same time, there would be a disgusting amount of new players sparring actively in the Battle Arena that same hour. Many of them would stay, because these are long-term incentives that would make sparring more fun and "meaningful" to players.  

It's just my opinion but I disagree with your second point. It's come to that stage now where there are only a handful of sparrers who are capable of reaching the number 1 spot on the leaderboard, in my opinion. Yes, there needs to be an incentive to spar, like you said, but for the number 1 spot? Nah, something else, perhaps a new currency like 'spar points' which you can redeem for hats at a shop.

I mean think about it, how many GS teams are formed just for the objective of getting past the first round so they can obtain the gift/spar item at GST? I reckon approximately 90% of all the GS teams share this objective in the GST, not to win but to get past the first round and see how far they can go. Therefore, it would be more sensible to incentivise sparring through rewarding players for participating rather then winning imo in a community such as this one.  

First time reading Thallen's leaderboard system and all I see is a competition to see who could spar the most in 3 months. Or "who is the best at throwing away their life to spar on graal". This is basically the exact same thing as posting a "wins per 3 months" leaderboard, not even PKers would be willing to no-life that. wins per day/week/all time or nothing.
Currently, our rating leaderboard pressures all of us into sparring cautiously and/or manipulating it, it can't stay. Don't post "You don't want it because you can't get the #1 spot" for the 37th time in this thread, because I still can whenever I want it.

Device specific rooms should stay or strafing should be removed. An advantage is an advantage.
A reward for having a top leaderboard spot shouldn't be implemented, because 1. Our leaderboard and your leaderboard idea are both awful. 2. Only a few players would actually be able to get to that spot and people would realize that, it wouldn't encourage more active sparring.
I want to say that I believe spar hats should be implemented again, but that could be good or bad. It would encourage more people to spar, but it would also encourage people to start boosting again. Spar hats are what gave Germans reputation for boosting. Like read the threads about spar hats, Kain (A prominent unskilled booster) was begging for a hat after they were removed. I don't know why people are so obsessed with hats that they boost for them, but he was.
Alright I've reached a decision. Spar hats should return for every 5,000 wins, IF competent unbiased staff members are hired to make sure nobody is boosting. This should be the hardest part as the staff team would need to be completely redone again and the staff at the top of the food chain don't even care about the game and just want money.  

Posted by Comyt

First time reading Thallen's leaderboard system and all I see is a competition to see who could spar the most in 3 months. Or "who is the best at throwing away their life to spar on graal". This is basically the exact same thing as posting a "wins per 3 months" leaderboard, not even PKers would be willing to no-life that.

Posted by Comyt

wins per day/week/all time or nothing

Uhhh, you just contradicted yourself from what I'm understanding.
So your logic here is that a leaderboard that promotes both activity, skill, and sparring against better players pales in comparison to a leaderboard that shows how many wins you have? Defend that in some way. Explain to me how that is better?

Posted by Comyt

Currently, our rating leaderboard pressures all of us into sparring cautiously and/or manipulating it, it can't stay.

Who are you speaking for? You're not speaking for me, Dante, David, Jack, Vlad, Junior, Shannon or a whole lot of others because those people are sparring all the time. You're not representing anyone I know of with in that statement so let's start using "I" instead of "us." A lot of people actually spar and play the leaderboards naturally without updating their status every time they reach a top 5 spot. Do you realize that? As far as "manipulating" it goes, you're by far the biggest offender. Speak for yourself on that note, not the spar community.  

In a wins per day/week/all time leaderboard, players can take a break after placing high for the day or week. In your wins per season leaderboard, nobody can take a break and it is a no-life competition, I can see why you'd want that as you are basically always online. You also have a 9-1 ratio which would attract more and more negative ratios for you to streak off of as they'd see you are worth 9 points and repeatedly try to beat you. Your leaderboard is probably the most biased idea I have ever seen on this forum.

And I am speaking for the players on the top of the leaderboard, the only ones succeeding in sparring really lame. There is Abood who runs away from everything that is positive, same with Jack Sparrow, same with Edin though he isn't there anymore, same with Vlad who you mentioned. Then there are "hoarders" who get high rating and disappear then cover it up with the excuse of having something better to do with their lives. Ex: David.  

Posted by Comyt

In a wins per day/week/all-time leaderboard, players can take a break after placing high for the day or week. In your wins per season leaderboard, nobody can take a break and it is a no-life competition, I can see why you'd want that as you are basically always online.

Okay, I'll paraphrase what you're saying:
"Having the most wins in a day, in a week, or over the course of 4 years does not mean you have no life. Having the most wins in three months means you have no life."

Am I understanding you? If so, it makes absolutely no sense. Why can nobody take a break over the course of three months yet they can over a day, week, or 4 years?  

You're selective reading .
"Players can take a break after placing high for the day or week."
It doesn't say all time in there.
That leaderboard is there to show who has the most wins, the same with the PKing leaderboard setup.
Your leaderboard is a contest to see who can no-life 3 months. No-lifing one week is pretty bad itself but people are willing to do it. Only you are willing to no-life 3 months.
The all-time leaderboard is not a contest to no-life for 4 years, those years already passed and it is to show who has sparred the most to all of the little guys who are wondering yet have no idea who Kevin or Shan are and assume I have the most wins. Now please twist around these words in the stupidest way possible to point them in your favor again.  

Yeah, I just wanted to keep pressing you until you'd come out to say it as vaguely as possible.

I want a leaderboard that encourages players to spar more actively and rewards them for winning against better players, because I want more people to spar in the Battle Arena so that it can be more enjoyable and competitive. I'd love to see queues of at least 5 at all times.

You want this placebo leaderboard so that you can remain inactive and still rank high on an "all-time leaderboard," because you don't care about sparring. You probably have no interest in sparring actively. You're very strange to tell me that what I'm suggesting is biased when it's functionality is to make players spar actively and naturally. The only way it may seem biased to you is because I'm an active sparrer. Are you?

If you want an all-time wins leaderboard, go sit by the library books. That's what those are for. The only reason I even suggest that it last three months is because that's how long a GST season lasts. It's how long the current leaderboard lasts. You act like I just came up with that number when it's been clearly predefined. If a season is too long, why isn't an all-time board too long? Scrap both then, and I'm all for a daily and weekly leaderboard.

Whatever encourages more players to spar is what I want, and I bet that's also what every person who enjoys sparring wants. What is it that you want? There's a conflict of interest on your part. You're telling people that "sparring is dead" yet your idea of reviving it includes adding an all-time wins leaderboard that gives players a four-year head start. That's pretty genius. I bet that'd attract a ton of new sparrers to the Battle Arena!  

LMAO just visitin; fun thing going on here.
to answer the original question.
WATCH MY VID DO YOU ****ING THINK ITS DEAD YOU MOTHER****ER?
lmao jk brah ily marry me im gey
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73sWvML07Lo

btw not just (everyone), theres more lagger/delayers like
kate<beat her & she got pissed blocked me shes obv ez af hit two step front of her. ezpz
yui<idk i beat her from C shape trick, but shes chill, funny how she unjoin when im in que
abood<hes kinda good, but not gunna good as me if we were in same region.
carly<shes chill in general, but 2 ez 4 me nao.
lexis<omfg this b***** srs, u gotta ban her. i had 20 min vid of me vs. her(accidentally erase t(-.-t)), her delay+lag is insane.
sarah<shes gud on wall, lmao she doesnt want me to record her anymore (my first vid on sparring proved that she total delay and lagged + she got beaten up at last part)
+
theres many ppl out there lagging/delaying. i understand ur sadness,  

Agreed definitely but, I just cannot use swords. No idea just cannot. By the way I'm posting a lot for my new account thx.:#  

Posted by Rezon

I'm totally in for removing the specific device rooms; all it does is attribute to the skewed mindset that different devices have some giant advantage over others.

No.  

Hmmm I believe this is true in a way.  

Posted by Thallen

That's because there is a game mechanic that is available to PCs (strafing) that is unavailable to iDevices. There's no denying that, no PC player can realistically tell you that PC sparring vs. iDevice sparring is "equal." There is a difference.

This is why the two device-specific rooms exist and why they should not be removed, as Rezon and a few others suggested.

My only comment on this situation is that Graal gives everyone the opportunity to spar by PC or by iDevice. You are free to make your own choice,

iClassic.

If people want to consider it to be an advantage, then I wouldn't be mad at them over that. I've never tried to argue against that... It'd be really ignorant to claim that players who play Graal by PC do it only for this "advantage." It's simply not true. Many of us have played Graal from PC for years and we wouldn't want to spar any other way.

People who played pc graal before iClassic existed: thats one thing. But there are plenty of people who started on iPod and switched to PC.  

Posted by twilit

This is why the two device-specific rooms exist and why they should not be removed, as Rezon and a few others suggested.


iClassic.


People who played pc graal before iClassic existed: thats one thing. But there are plenty of people who started on iPod and switched to PC.

^im one of them. its same anyways, ipod with keyboard or just pc. i prefer pc more, cuz less laggy, bigger screen, strong wifi  

Posted by Thallen

1. Revise the leaderboard in a way that is simple to understand and does not incorporate risk. The majority of iClassic sparrers have proven they can't handle risk. They'd rather not spar at all to avoid the risk of losing points. If they feel like they can only gain points by sparring more often, it would greatly benefit sparring.
2. Incentivize this new leaderboard to make sparring active and competitive. Every season, award the top leaderboard position with a prize. I don't care what it is. A hat, a NPC, a belt, a statue, a trophy, whatever. Something that will give them incentive to want to win.
3. Bring back hat rewards for spar wins to give all players an incentive to spar. Spar hats should have never disappeared. There should be automated ways to handing them out. Make a new room in the Battle Arena where players can redeem them after reaching, 1000, 5000, 10k, 25k, and 50k milestones. Players that already have this amount of wins can immediately redeem them. This gives everyone, even casual sparrers, a reason to participate and want to spar. I know some of you out there wouldn't be thrilled over a leaderboard reward because you believe you wouldn't have a chance at winning it, but I know how much you guys love hats. At least this would give you something to work towards.

I seriously believe if all three of those things happened at the same time, there would be a disgusting amount of new players sparring actively in the Battle Arena that same hour. Many of them would stay, because these are long-term incentives that would make sparring more fun and "meaningful" to players.

This is a step in the right direction. I think I said earlier that removing the leaderboard was a good idea, but I believe I meant that there are changes that need to be made. Incentive is definitely positive, and I think the current system is easily abused to the point of inaccuracy and aggravation. But the lack of a leaderboard would lose competition, which is a great point, and definitely not something I would want to see, either.

Posted by twilit

iClassic.

GraalOnline Classic, actually. There is a reason to know this difference.

Posted by twilit

People who played pc graal before iClassic existed: thats one thing. But there are plenty of people who started on iPod and switched to PC.

Are you referring to players that originally played on iDevices and migrated to computers for convenience or for a spar advantage? While people exist to satisfy both descriptions, I don't think you can accurately judge both groups of players together. Personally, I first played on an iPod 2g, and started playing PC a bit later. Being bundled together with the people who simply say "i bet if i played PC i could beat you easily" is wrong and even embarrassing. However, people like me don't complain about people who think we did it for an advantage. Some of us didn't even play on a computer thinking it would be easier or harder.

Don't further divide the Graal community by placing a barrier between what device players started with. People are already segregating the community between what device they like to spar on.

Don't turn this thread into a PC/iDevice debate thread again, please... The topic of this thread is whether or not spar is dead. Which we have proven it is not.