Reading spar threads is like watching Maury without the DNA testing and the babies. We need like someone to come out from behind stage carrying a giant yellow envelope then going up to people all like: You...are NOT the lagger! Then everyone will lose their ****, and it'll be over. Close thread.  

Lol at Sarah being one of the "top 5 best sparrers recently" and I agree with all the things Comyt said.  

Sarah, Abood and Jack Sparrow needs to realize that their delay isn't fair for the sparring community  

Posted by Dusty

Invincibility after being hit, besides being based on gameplay mechanics like using your sword, is indeed effected by framerate. Why? Because hit detection is clientside-based, and determined by what is happening on your screen. Instead of swinging your sword and hitting a player, then communicating with the server and telling it(and your victim) that you hit a player, it works the other way around. Your client is constantly looking around your player, and if it sees another player using their sword in a certain range, it registers you as being hit by them. This causes the whole "blink delay" issue because if you have a horrid framerate, your client is literally running slower than the other players. This means after you're hit, normally the client would ignore the hit detection for say... A second. But aince your client is runnig slower, that second of invincibility can turn into three seconds. This is why chat blocking is a thing, because the keyboard on the iOS dramatically decreases the framerate of Graal. Could be worse, PC graal lets you do certain things that completely freeze your client, making you invincible until you disable it. Like a convenient, in-game lag switch... Woo.

Sorry for the massive wall, on my iPad so typing is a pain.

tried explaining this numerous times but all logic in spar threads is pretty much overlooked
probably because only 10% of the people in these threads actually understand sparring  

Posted by Winter

"blink always behaves the same, every time"

Posted by Dusty

This causes the whole "blink delay" issue because if you have a horrid framerate, your client is literally running slower than the other players. This means after you're hit, normally the client would ignore the hit detection for say... A second. But aince your client is runnig slower, that second of invincibility can turn into three seconds.

I didn't know if you were saying, "blink always behaves the same, every time", as something that is widely misunderstood, or if you were saying it as a fact (if that makes sense). Anyways, Dusty's statement says that delay (blink) is indeed not the same for everyone. However, Winter, I do agree at the point where you say that dealing with delay can be a matter of trial and error. It would be nice if hit delay would not be such an issue on Classic, of course. Especially guild spar when there are multiple opponents delaying.  

Posted by Aaron

Anyways, Dusty's statement says that delay (blink) is indeed not the same for everyone.

dude
delay is not blink
you guys are hopeless

gonna torture myself and explain this **** one more time to you guys
blink: a term sparrers use to describe the period of invincibility after you are hit, can be manipulated and made use of in many different ways so that you are effectively unhittable for up to 2 seconds (if your framerate is stable) if you know what you're doing
delay: someone who has a consistently high ping to the server and thus sends/receives data to the server slower, when you spar them you have to basically attempt to hit them where you think they'll be after some certain amount of time based on how high their ping is

Dusty will certainly verify that any players who live in Japan, or delay for any other reason, see every other sparrer they spar against as if they delay
not going to explain to anyone why that is because I'm honestly bored of repeating myself and I'm essentially helping a bunch of people understand something when all they do is rage at me afterwards

I'd love to see you guys play a game that actually requires a significant account of mechanical skill like LoL or Dota 2
understanding Graal's hit detection really isn't even a fifth of how complicated you guys are making it
imagine these guys trying to do animation cancelling or orb walk  

Can't say I've read every post in this thread, but some people seem to be saying that players manipulate their device/browser/whatever they play on to lower their framerate while sparring so that they blink longer? That would be pretty amusing if true, as lowering framerate also means you move slower. Having 4 seconds of blink but also moving half the speed of your opponent isn't going to lead to good things for you.  

Posted by Aaron

I didn't know if you were saying, "blink always behaves the same, every time", as something that is widely misunderstood, or if you were saying it as a fact (if that makes sense). Anyways, Dusty's statement says that delay (blink) is indeed not the same for everyone.

You misunderstood me. Dusty pointed out that having a decreased framerate can affect the length of time it takes for your client to register your character being hit by a sword. I explained that every blink acts the same after the hit is already registered. That is, it is caused by the same input, has a given length of time before it wears off, and is affected by the same exceptions that end blink early or lengthen it due to a framerate drop.

Although, the length of time the blink lasts may very well be linked to Dusty's explanation of chat blocking. We may measure this time span in seconds, but it doesn't matter to the computer because it measures the length of time in frames. I haven't really noticed this because I don't really get around Graal often enough to see any chat blocking anymore. But this is a very good point. So, if a computer is dropping frames for some reason, the hit detection recovery will seem to be lengthened in seconds, but like I said, the computer will carry out the same command every time, and actually just take longer for the frames to show up. The frames take longer on a slower machine, so the game will think everything is running correctly while human beings see an expanded time frame for the blink.

This is very good to know when you spar someone who skips frames, which can be caused by a number of things, but still can achieve a similar reaction from the computer. We just see it differently. Good knowledge to know that a player like that may have a frame issue that causes irregularities. Shouldn't be too hard to make amends.

Posted by Ph8

Can't say I've read every post in this thread, but some people seem to be saying that players manipulate their device/browser/whatever they play on to lower their framerate while sparring so that they blink longer? That would be pretty amusing if true, as lowering framerate also means you move slower. Having 4 seconds of blink but also moving half the speed of your opponent isn't going to lead to good things for you.

It may also do some good to make sure people know that latency and framerate drops can seem similar, but they are not the same thing. Sometimes they are not even related.  

Posted by Ph8

Can't say I've read every post in this thread, but some people seem to be saying that players manipulate their device/browser/whatever they play on to lower their framerate while sparring so that they blink longer? That would be pretty amusing if true, as lowering framerate also means you move slower. Having 4 seconds of blink but also moving half the speed of your opponent isn't going to lead to good things for you.

yes
exactly
therefore, being able to blink longer than 2 seconds is literally a disadvantage
that **** is only helpful when you're blocking at towers or trying to win Fallout  

Posted by Thallen

tried explaining this numerous times but all logic in spar threads is pretty much overlooked
probably because only 10% of the people in these threads actually understand sparring

No, you only ever rant about the theory behind lag because "lag" is often overused for the term "blink,--"

Posted by Thallen

just being honest, it's not by the grace of some higher power that people can blink longer than you

-- which you claim is equal for everyone, which Dusty (whom you are agreeing with) has just disproved.  

Posted by twilit

-- which you claim is equal for everyone, which Dusty (whom you are agreeing with) has just disproved.

I think you may have slightly misunderstood Dusty's evaluation. He's speaking in terms of the computer, of course.

Posted by Winter

Although, the length of time the blink lasts may very well be linked to Dusty's explanation of chat blocking. We may measure this time span in seconds, but it doesn't matter to the computer because it measures the length of time in frames. I haven't really noticed this because I don't really get around Graal often enough to see any chat blocking anymore. But this is a very good point. So, if a computer is dropping frames for some reason, the hit detection recovery will seem to be lengthened in seconds, but like I said, the computer will carry out the same command every time, and actually just take longer for the frames to show up. The frames take longer on a slower machine, so the game will think everything is running correctly while human beings see an expanded time frame for the blink.

Technically speaking, the number number of frames the blink lasts stays the same for everyone. It just depends on how well the data is sent to the server, and that controls how we see it.  

It's not uncommon for people to be confused/lead astray because of the vagueness the term "lag" has taken on nowadays. It's used interchangeably for framerate drops and connection latency, which causes issues when you're specifically trying to discuss one or the other.  

The laggers just want an excuse lol. Man I know some people can't control it, but get over it. It's pretty idiotic to say lag is the same on both sides lol.

I think we should have a new form of transportation on Graal. A short bus that drives all the Enguard Tards to the battle arena!  

Posted by GotenGraal

The laggers just want an excuse lol. Man I know some people can't control it, but get over it. It's pretty idiotic to say lag is the same on both sides lol.

I hope at this point you're just trying to troll and aren't serious. Or can you seriously not comprehend what other people have to say?  

Posted by twilit

I hope at this point you're just trying to troll and aren't serious. Or can you seriously not comprehend what other people have to say?

Want to be the bus driver for the short bus?