I think the new level looks creative and well made but in my honest opinion when it comes to spar arenas less is more. The problem with walls and bottleneck points like the bridges is that they encourage turteling / reward players for hiding and stalling the game.

Whoever makes the first move will be at a disadvantage because it is much easier to hide behind a wall and shoot the entering point than it is to circle around and try to chase the hiding player. On top of that it doesn't take much skill to get the upper hand in this situation, rather its whoever gets to the wall first that determines who gets the advantage. In regular spar and planets this kind of situation rarely exists, and I don't think it makes sense to give it such a huge role in the tournament.

A spar arena that is mostly empty with just a few obstacles would make much more sense. In a situation like that, the ability to dodge (rather than the ability to reach a prime location against a wall first) determines who wins and who loses. I felt the regular squad spar arena was already a bit heavy with the walls and feel the new one is even more cluttered.

Imagine trying to cross the narrow bridge to assault the other team while they just camp behind walls spamming the only entrances. I'm predicting the winner will be determined by whoever gets tired of waiting first and is willing to cross the bridge to their likely death.

I'm also kind of bummed that the new map is so different from the old one because we've been practicing so much with the old map in mind. The bridges in the new one make it very different from both the regular and squad spar maps; we'll have no experience with it.  

Posted by Tunder

I think the new level looks creative and well made but in my honest opinion when it comes to spar arenas less is more. The problem with walls and bottleneck points like the bridges is that they encourage turteling / reward players for hiding and stalling the game.

Whoever makes the first move will be at a disadvantage because it is much easier to hide behind a wall and shoot the entering point than it is to circle around and try to chase the hiding player. On top of that it doesn't take much skill to get the upper hand in this situation, rather its whoever gets to the wall first that determines who gets the advantage. In regular spar and planets this kind of situation rarely exists, and I don't think it makes sense to give it such a huge role in the tournament.

A spar arena that is mostly empty with just a few obstacles would make much more sense. In a situation like that, the ability to dodge (rather than the ability to reach a prime location against a wall first) determines who wins and who loses. I felt the regular squad spar arena was already a bit heavy with the walls and feel the new one is even more cluttered.

Imagine trying to cross the narrow bridge to assault the other team while they just camp behind walls spamming the only entrances. I'm predicting the winner will be determined by whoever gets tired of waiting first and is willing to cross the bridge to their likely death.

I'm also kind of bummed that the new map is so different from the old one because we've been practicing so much with the old map in mind. The bridges in the new one make it very different from both the regular and squad spar maps; we'll have no experience with it.

Thanks for the feedback ;) I will see what I can do..  

Posted by Ver'iApplez

Thanks for the feedback ;) I will see what I can do..

Thank you very much! Oh and one other thing I forgot to mention was I'd make sure the maps are symmetrical or I'm sure the losing team will be blaming their location for the loss haha.  

http://i40.tinypic.com/iw6x08.png (Unsupported image host)
Updated it! Expanded arena and more

I also will get rid of the blue bar in the arena . Kinda annoying

Tunder get on iZone I gotta show u something  

Posted by Ver'iApplez

Spoiler

http://i40.tinypic.com/iw6x08.png (Unsupported image host)

Updated it! Expanded arena and more

I also will get rid of the blue bar in the arena . Kinda annoying

Tunder get on iZone I gotta show u something

Covers should be placed differently, and map should be bigger.

This was iEra's 2013 gst map, it was made for 6v6, the sst arena should be more based off a thing like conquest (talking about the way conquest is made (covers,the map itself) etc...)
If your map is too small then
1)It'll be a spamming fest, where players don't know wether its their bullets or the opponent's,
2)Cannot properly move around or actually do something.
And I'll say the same thing that I've said to era players:who said sparring is in a small levels with 4 walls? No one, as you see, iEra's 2013 gst map was nice, alot of covers, 3 ways to access your opponents area, this way players didn't just shoot or anything, but made up their tactics. Skill is about dodging, tactic, not shooting in an empty level.
here-v

Spoiler

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/185094image.jpg (Unsupported image host)

You see the blue covers you put on the top, personally I'd redo this map, you can make something good with it.
1) Use exactly the 4 blue thingies on top, put them in the middle, the top,
bottom (this will be where we can acess the opponents areas).

2)As for the covers, use the right side, make the left side like the right side (symetrical), remove the two weird covers on top, put em somewhere else.

3)Make it bigger, this is too small, zone is a 360° degree game, if we don't have something large enough (conquest/showdown could do it honestly, everyone likes them, they're good maps), if not try to base your map off them.
4v4 with lasers everywhere in a small 4 walls level is deffinitely, as in the earlier posts not a challenge, but a duel of who will get out of ammo first.

Spoiler

http://i43.tinypic.com/2qkpfzs.png (Unsupported image host)

Did this quickly for you (I'd still make the arena bigger):

Spoiler

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/922632image.jpg (Unsupported image host)

 

@Ozzy

I kind of like the idea of a huge map but it doesn't really seem like that would be a sparring tournament; it would basically be like any planeting session (two squads fight over one large map). When I think of sparring I think of a relatively "pure" fight in a small, simple arena where dodging and shooting are brought to the forefront. Really thats the only difference between spar and the rest of PvP.

Also in iEra did the gst have walls like we have in iZone that you can shoot through? In my opinion regular walls you can't shoot through would be less of a problem than the ones we have in squad spar right now. Too many of those leads to people camping in a spot and shooting people while being invulnerable. I agree the maps should be symmetrical but I hope there are less of the walls you can shoot through and more true walls if there are going to be obstacles at all.  

Spar isn't/was never supposed to be in a rectangle/square-ish level.
You can't look at it like that, and also, on era, we usually cannot shoot trough covers, but the one you saw on the gst arena were small, so we could.

Ever played WoW?(world of warcraft), can't think of any fps/shooter games to show you right now.
But sparring on real games isn't a level with 4 walls and a tree in the middle, rofl, its a level with covers, everything.

Basically Spar=Pk but with a limited amount of players and/or with a team composed of x players, that's what Sparring really is.

What do you find more challenging?
iEra's 2013 gst map or a blank,small level.
"Skill"-Dodging trough waves of bullets in a blank level, is it easy? Of course NO, but is it 100% possible?
"Tactic"-On zone, something important.
Even your current 2v2 squad spar has covers, shows that sparring isn't about spamming or something, but more of building up a tactic to push your opponents back.
Do you think at war, they'd choose an empty battlefield to fight? No, else this would be a massive destruction/who has the best gear contest.  

Why do you say spar was never supposed to be that way when thats the way it has been on Zone since day one lol

Edit: I see what you mean about the current squad spar walls. I wouldn't mind the tourny map having about the same as the existing one. They kept it minimal but still enough to require some team organization. I don't really like the idea of a planet sized map though, its just so different from the current ss map and too much like a regular planet match.  

Posted by Tunder

Why do you say spar was never supposed to be that way when thats the way it has been on Zone since day one lol

You say "sparring" has to be in a small, square-ish level.
Lol, no it hasn't?

Sparring:"A fight where two people fight eachother in an arena till the death"
-^ where does it say "in an empty, blank level with no covers, and square-ish layout?  

Posted by Ozzy_Magus

Covers should be placed differently, and map should be bigger.

This was iEra's 2013 gst map, it was made for 6v6, the sst arena should be more based off a thing like conquest (talking about the way conquest is made (covers,the map itself) etc...)
If your map is too small then
1)It'll be a spamming fest, where players don't know wether its their bullets or the opponent's,
2)Cannot properly move around or actually do something.
And I'll say the same thing that I've said to era players:who said sparring is in a small levels with 4 walls? No one, as you see, iEra's 2013 gst map was nice, alot of covers, 3 ways to access your opponents area, this way players didn't just shoot or anything, but made up their tactics. Skill is about dodging, tactic, not shooting in an empty level.
here-v

Spoiler

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/185094image.jpg (Unsupported image host)

You see the blue covers you put on the top, personally I'd redo this map, you can make something good with it.
1) Use exactly the 4 blue thingies on top, put them in the middle, the top,
bottom (this will be where we can acess the opponents areas).

2)As for the covers, use the right side, make the left side like the right side (symetrical), remove the two weird covers on top, put em somewhere else.

3)Make it bigger, this is too small, zone is a 360° degree game, if we don't have something large enough (conquest/showdown could do it honestly, everyone likes them, they're good maps), if not try to base your map off them.
4v4 with lasers everywhere in a small 4 walls level is deffinitely, as in the earlier posts not a challenge, but a duel of who will get out of ammo first.

Spoiler

http://i43.tinypic.com/2qkpfzs.png (Unsupported image host)

Did this quickly for you (I'd still make the arena bigger):

Spoiler

http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/922632image.jpg (Unsupported image host)

This. I love the idea. Bang bang.  

Posted by Ozzy_Magus

You say "sparring" has to be in a small, square-ish level.
Lol, no it hasn't?

Sparring:"A fight where two people fight eachother in an arena till the death"
-^ where does it say "in an empty, blank level with no covers, and square-ish layout?

I'm just thinking about sparring in the context of zone. Theres planets, which is two squads against each other on large complicated maps, pk, which is just unorganized pvp in any context, and sparring, which takes place in only the two spar arenas and the squad spar one. Of course I realize the word can mean something more general but thats not how it has been used in the setting lol.

I am not opposed to the idea of a planet-style tournament but I would just be disappointed for it to change so late now because I was expecting something more along the lines of what sparring refers to in Zone now. Planets (including showdown) and spar are very different games after all.

If everyone is on board with switching it from a spar like arena to a planet then I wouldn't mind. It just isn't what pretty much everyone thought it was gonna be.  

Era single spar/Normal gangspar has no covers, and is a square-ish arena, however they do understand that the gst shouldn't be like that, its too common/easy?
2 years, they've used amazing arena's, so yes, take it from someone with experience, the MAP<- should be bigger/more conq/showdown style (the way these levels are made) get the difference between saying "make showdown the sst arena" and "The way the levels are made"

Look at my original post, iEra gst map, players loved it, it was big, it had covers, it had 3 ways to acces your opponents area, and I can assure you it wasn't a spam contest, it was an heavy dodge and patientce duel.
Of course, if you want it easy, square-ish, empty levels, where it'd take 2 seconds for a team to win-then we're not on the same wavelength.

Sparring, does not mean fighting in a square, sparring itself, the word or , well like planets=planets, they're a game-mode, so is showdown its a LMS, sparring is a dual between 2 players or a group of players.
Only thing you've got right, but still not get it fully, is that sparring, unlike other game modes, takes place in a limited, closed area. Planets are enormous, compared to what 'spar' or 'showdown' are.

Plus, zone is 360° shooting, so you're problems with "covers" about "hiding/spamming" don't affect anything, since you can still somehow get a hit on your opponent.
Idk why you're tying so much to keep it simple, when you can make something really nice? And I find the normal ss arena, good, whitout the covers it wouldn't be anything.

Skill=Dodging, I totally agree with you and gracey, but you can't just say, that there's a more skilled team if we'd vs in an empty level, it'd be more like luck, instead, a nice arena, where we can actually fight, build up tactics, the more intelligent, and the best will definitely stand out of the crowd.

Whereas if we do it like you say, we're going to be warped in a level, that we won't be able to see anymore as soon as it starts due to the fact that it is an empty square, each team will choose their corner and use the 360° to get the other team down, in this map both movement and tactic are useless, and unless you delay/lag in such a situation, you'd instantly die, I am 100% against such a type of arena for a major event like the SST (and by major event I mean that this is an exclusive tournament with prizes and stuff, so it should be professional).

Tl:dr, skill,complexity,tactic over simple stuff, empty and useless levels  

Thanks for the feedback but honestly we have no time to make a gmap we are limited on time.

Plus, our arena is the same size as iClassic GST Arena.
With flying bullets that is .  

Posted by Ver'iApplez

Thanks for the feedback but honestly we have no time to make a gmap we are limited on time.

Plus, our arena is the same size as iClassic GST Arena.
With flying bullets that is .

That's the problem, with lasers+the 360° system its gonna be a mess, check my pm, it shows you what to fix on the current arena.
And make it bigger....

5 days, I'm sure you can make something better=p  

Rather do a good tourney instead of a bad one.