Dusty, I looked at the minimap in that 2007 screenshot you showed me and the overworld's shape doesn't resemble the current map they have right now.

In general I still think it's bad to downplay Delteria's release, because its content is still new compared to the last servers that have been released.  

Posted by Jester Lapse

I don't think it can be even considered "ripping" for any of those server's cases. I mean, they are ports to the iDevice from PC, they are SUPPOSED to look and feel alike in some way. Otherwise it would not be called iDelteria.

It is, however, considered ripping-off when Developers tend to take credit for other people's work. For example, Classic and Era were released with everybody knowing that they were ports of said original servers. Zone, however, was different, because it was pretty much ripped off from another server by Stefan, Shangri La. Delteria is also considered different by most of the community, because the new Delteria administration has essentially taken the work of old developers and given them next to no credit. Classic and Era were never introduced to the community as "brand new content", but Delteria honestly has been. There's very little reason to believe on Delteria's forums, Facebook page, server, etc. that anything was taken from past incarnates of the server, and it almost seems to me that that's exactly how the current staff team wants it.  

I said it before in my previous post, but to clarify more: most of PC Delteria's content that resembles what iDelteria is now were all made on its Dev server which couldn't be played by the public. So to the public, and compared to the servers that have been released before, it's still relatively new.  

Who says no credit is given to past developers? For all you know there may very well be a building in game with past developers and their contributions to this project. I have not seen ANYONE straight post they are taking credit for anything even though new things are being made every day on the server. Show me a post of someone claiming to have made something they didn't. This debate is stupid, off topic and more or less a no duh situation.  

Posted by Raven

I said it before in my previous post, but to clarify more: most of PC Delteria's content that resembles what iDelteria is now were all made on its Dev server which couldn't be played by the public. So to the public, and compared to the servers that have been released before, it's still relatively new.

Ya okay... mhmm... ya then how about not insulting servers like iClassic and iEra with something as severe as "ripping" their own content? The content on iClassic is just as much different from the original Classic server as iDelteria is to its old dev server.  

I used them as a comparison to show how new Delteria's content is compared to them.  

Posted by Raven

Dusty, I looked at the minimap in that 2007 screenshot you showed me and the overworld's shape doesn't resemble the current map they have right now.

Actually it does. The map of idelteria you are thinking of with the current server is just the tutorial island. The "real" map is identical to the minimap in that 2007 screenshot.  

Posted by Jester Lapse

Who says no credit is given to past developers? For all you know there may very well be a building in game with past developers and their contributions to this project.

In that case we wouldn't know, but that doesn't change the fact that nobody does know nor has for the past year+ and the next x months / years to come.

Posted by Jester Lapse

I have not seen ANYONE straight post they are taking credit for anything even though new things are being made every day on the server. Show me a post of someone claiming to have made something they didn't.

The things that set people off are the things that get posted. Usually Delteria staff will take a screenshot, write a description, etc. of or about the server and then post it somewhere. With it, they'll write something that's obscure enough so that nobody can pin them down and accuse then that they're flat-out stealing content, but at the same time it's very open to interpretation and sends the message that it was made by whichever staff posted it or the current staff team when, in fact, it was definitely not.

A direct example is when Ohk4y posted a video of Delteria's iRC. He claimed that it was not the focal point of the video, but it clearly was and clearly implied that Delteria had made the program. He did not outright say this, but most people left that post thinking that. In that instance, Delteria essentially took credit for a program that they did not make. Whether or not it was given to them is irrelevant; the issue is that Delteria flat-out implied that they made it and that it was exclusive to their server.

Some might call it manipulation. It's clever, but it also relies on the rest of the community having a brick for a brain which, oddly enough, not all of us have.

Posted by Jester Lapse

This debate is stupid, off topic and more or less a no duh situation.

It's not a debate right now because every post containing logic is being ignored. It's just a circle of spite which all reason being completely disregarded. Maybe you can break that trend.  

Posted by Raven

All those servers you listed were released before Zodiac, and two of them died off.

Delteria isn't a big deal just because it's being slated to release or whether it's gonna get a lot of players or not, it's a big deal because it'll be the first server in seven years with content that isn't directly ripped from another server (referring to iZone, iEra, and iClassic)

iEra and iClassic are just ports and never claimed to be original. I can't speak for Era, but the only thing Classic has that's ripped from the pc server is levels. Pretty much everything else on Classic (furniture, hats, towers etc.) were never a part of the PC classic server.

As for Delteria not being ripped, I'm pretty sure Dusty summed that bit up nicely.  

Alright, here's the main island.

http://delteria.net/download/attachments/1671355/delt_map-kaljun.png?version=1&modificationDate=1358393379000&api=v2 (Unsupported image host)

Let's compare it to the one in the 2007 screenshot.



Well, let's look at the similarities. There happens to be two rivers running through the middle, and there's a little island thingy at the bottom left. However, the hook that tapers off from the right end in the 2007 screenshot seems to have completely moved down while the rest seems to have its shape stretched around. I wouldn't say it's identical, similar yes.

Albus you should read the rest I posted after my post you quoted.  

Okay, first off, there is a large difference between one person posting things and "leaving it open for interpretation" and saying flat out Delteria is stealing. The latter implies that EVERYONE on the team is out to manipulate in some way or claim credit for what they did not do. Me being on the graphics team, was given a history lesson by Zerith about Sandz and other GFX artist before even him that contributed to the server and what they did, so it is not like all of us are ignorant to the history. At least on the end I see it, we are not.

Secondly, when people post screenshots on the Facebook page of iDelteria, no one is claiming anything there. I think it is common knowledge that iDelteria was made as a team, past and present, and will continue down that path. Just because the same person is posting pictures does not mean that they claim credit for anything in that picture. It is the Delteria Facebook page, and it is about Delteria, not about who made what. It sounds like you want the poster to put in the comments "so and so made this, so and so made that, etc"? What other server does that? Why should we? We are a team, and we expect players to know that everyone, somehow has contributed.

I have not used the iRC nor do I plan to nor do I know the backstory to that. Your point there may very well be valid, but again, that is one person, not the whole team. When you say Delteria steals or rips, you accuse every person that works there. That is what I am taking from these posts, and it is complete BS.  

Posted by Jester Lapse

Okay, first off, there is a large difference between one person posting things and "leaving it open for interpretation" and saying flat out Delteria is stealing. The latter implies that EVERYONE on the team is out to manipulate in some way or claim credit for what they did not do. Me being on the graphics team, was given a history lesson by Zerith about Sandz and other GFX artist before even him that contributed to the server and what they did, so it is not like all of us are ignorant to the history. At least on the end I see it, we are not.

A majority of the team does seem to do the things I talked about. Many of these people also happen to be members, in some way, of the management, or at least considered "senior staff" by the server. It's customary for these types of people to represent the server they work for (on every server, not just Delteria), so if the management / specifically selected "senior staff" aren't a good representation of the Delteria staff team then who is? Perhaps Delteria needs to find new staff who don't put the server in such bad light.

Posted by Jester Lapse

Secondly, when people post screenshots on the Facebook page of iDelteria, no one is claiming anything there. I think it is common knowledge that iDelteria was made as a team, past and present, and will continue down that path. Just because the same person is posting pictures does not mean that they claim credit for anything in that picture. It is the Delteria Facebook page, and it is about Delteria, not about who made what. It sounds like you want the poster to put in the comments "so and so made this, so and so made that, etc"? What other server does that? Why should we? We are a team, and we expect players to know that everyone, somehow has contributed.

How can you expect players to know all about the history of Delteria? Many of them do not even know that there is a Graal PC, let alone an old Delteria. You cannot expect players to know everything about the server's past, especially when you publicly tell them nothing about the server's past. I'm not asking the staff to give credit in every single post, but the complete lack of credit to the staff team who made the majority of the content.

If a Classic staff were to post a picture of Classic content, it would be assumed that it was made by the Classic staff team. The same thing goes for Delteria, only the picture in question wasn't actually made by the current Delteria team but a team years ago.

Posted by Jester Lapse

I have not used the iRC nor do I plan to nor do I know the backstory to that. Your point there may very well be valid, but again, that is one person, not the whole team. When you say Delteria steals or rips, you accuse every person that works there. That is what I am taking from these posts, and it is complete BS.

The iRC was posted by Ohk4y, somebody who is involved in Delteria management. You can say I "accuse" the server based on the actions of the management who represent it. If the management cannot represent a server positively, then they shouldn't be in the position they are in.

And, as I said before, iRC is but one example of a single staff member. There are countless more examples, but that is the single example I chose to post to explain my previous point. You've just agreed that my point is quite possibly valid, so perhaps most of the other examples of this issue in the past are true, as well.  

Posted by Jester Lapse

Okay, first off, there is a large difference between one person posting things and "leaving it open for interpretation" and saying flat out Delteria is stealing. The latter implies that EVERYONE on the team is out to manipulate in some way or claim credit for what they did not do. Me being on the graphics team, was given a history lesson by Zerith about Sandz and other GFX artist before even him that contributed to the server and what they did, so it is not like all of us are ignorant to the history. At least on the end I see it, we are not.

Secondly, when people post screenshots on the Facebook page of iDelteria, no one is claiming anything there. I think it is common knowledge that iDelteria was made as a team, past and present, and will continue down that path. Just because the same person is posting pictures does not mean that they claim credit for anything in that picture. It is the Delteria Facebook page, and it is about Delteria, not about who made what. It sounds like you want the poster to put in the comments "so and so made this, so and so made that, etc"? What other server does that? Why should we? We are a team, and we expect players to know that everyone, somehow has contributed.

I have not used the iRC nor do I plan to nor do I know the backstory to that. Your point there may very well be valid, but again, that is one person, not the whole team. When you say Delteria steals or rips, you accuse every person that works there. That is what I am taking from these posts, and it is complete BS.

This.  

Posted by Emera

This.

Posted by MattKan

A majority of the team does seem to do the things I talked about. Many of these people also happen to be members, in some way, of the management, or at least considered "senior staff" by the server. It's customary for these types of people to represent the server they work for (on every server, not just Delteria), so if the management / specifically selected "senior staff" aren't a good representation of the Delteria staff team then who is? Perhaps Delteria needs to find new staff who don't put the server in such bad light.



How can you expect players to know all about the history of Delteria? Many of them do not even know that there is a Graal PC, let alone an old Delteria. You cannot expect players to know everything about the server's past, especially when you publicly tell them nothing about the server's past. I'm not asking the staff to give credit in every single post, but the complete lack of credit to the staff team who made the majority of the content.

If a Classic staff were to post a picture of Classic content, it would be assumed that it was made by the Classic staff team. The same thing goes for Delteria, only the picture in question wasn't actually made by the current Delteria team but a team years ago.



The iRC was posted by Ohk4y, somebody who is involved in Delteria management. You can say I "accuse" the server based on the actions of the management who represent it. If the management cannot represent a server positively, then they shouldn't be in the position they are in.

And, as I said before, iRC is but one example of a single staff member. There are countless more examples, but that is the single example I chose to post to explain my previous point. You've just agreed that my point is quite possibly valid, so perhaps most of the other examples of this issue in the past are true, as well.

 

Like I said, there may very well be some ode to old developers within the game. However, expecting the current staff team to run around educating people on the history of graal pc and the likes is utter crap. Did iEra do that? Did iZone do that? Did iClassic do that? You expect these things from Delteria, yet never expected them from any other server, why is that?

Really, the only solution to the problem you are having is for the management to stop posting pictures and videos and giving teasers that the majority of players have been asking for.

You do have a point, when I first joined iClassic, I had no idea there was a PC side of Graal. Now that I do, not much has changed besides the fact that I now can develop in some form. I honestly do not understand what you are asking of the team to do. You wish for us to just stop developing to give a history lesson of the server? If so, I ask why you want this of us and not any other server.

You want things, yet we are not even released yet, we are not even ready to stop developing. We have one thing in mind, moving forward and releasing, only then, can we stop for a moment and look back.