lol I actually thought the screen shaking meant there was a pumpkin boss nearby  

Posted by Coco

No one must have their sounds on to notice that the smell effect comes complete with a variety of fart sounds The lowest pitch of which makes your screen shake

We were so proud of that...

I actually noticed that  

Posted by Coco

No one must have their sounds on to notice that the smell effect comes complete with a variety of fart sounds The lowest pitch of which makes your screen shake

We were so proud of that...

Graal doesn't really have smooth sounds and it's hella annoying if the sounds mix up.
Reason why most of the people don't put their sounds onnn  

Playing for hours.
Donated more than 35 candies.
All I got is 6 jellybeans.  

used around 600 candies so far, only rare item I've gotten is the cat mount
4 bone cauldrons, 9 bone fences, 5 bone mirrors, 5 bone thrones, 9 bone torches, 132 jellybeans, 9 glowsticks, ~2000 gralats
10% whining over not getting a single hat, 90% relaying information

MeMo has gotten every prize except 1 or 2 hats (I think) using 1 candy each time
I've been using more than 1 candy each time, would recommend you don't do that

seemed like the trade-off of raising the treat rate was to make ghosts, blobs, and goblins spawn much less frequently, which IMO made the event itself a little less fun
most of the graphics and Halloween decorations are pretty good, but I think people were just underwhelmed by the event's prize pool compared to 2013  

Posted by Thallen

seemed like the trade-off of raising the treat rate was to make ghosts, blobs, and goblins spawn much less frequently, which IMO made the event itself a little less fun

The only thing made to spawn less frequently were Goblins and that's because players(of course) found ways to exploit them. Goblins were giving out 10x more candy than ghosts and pumpkins combined.

Sadly we can't do anything about the lag. And the issue with just making things spawn more is that it opens up the chance for some players to find exploits(like the goblins). When stuff like that happens the average player doesn't get more candy, a handful of players just end up with way more than everyone else.

Posted by Thallen

most of the graphics and Halloween decorations are pretty good, but I think people were just underwhelmed by the event's prize pool compared to 2013

Well Rufus said early on the prize pool just can't be that big. There's also an issue that people want new stuff every year to keep things "interesting" as an incentive and that's just not possible. Not only is it it a lot of work(right before Christmas) but there's only so many halloween-themed things you can do. How many different witch hats can you make for example?

The good thing about the prize pool is that unlike the event it can be changed. Things can be added. But we still run into the same problem.

My suggestion is to just keep adding onto the pool every year, rather than making a new one. But there are always problems with that. Players wanting last years stuff to be "exclusive" and players wanting new stuff rather than old stuff. But it's the only way to keep the prize pool larger rather than smaller.


There's always going to be a learning curve when releasing new content. You just can't know how the players will actually "play" the event until it's released, and then adjust accordingly. You won't know if the average player will be have 5 pieces of candy or 200. So how do you balance the trick or treat rates without that knowledge? You make the best estimate you can and adjust accordingly. Even the best estimates rarely come close to representing what actually happens though. There are things I can see being fixed next year, but it's too late to fix them now.  

I guess this is what I'd personally do in terms of structuring a prize pool for seasonal events like this:

• Take all of the public shop hats that have been phased out and lump them into some general pool that can be used across every seasonal event (Halloween's trick or treating, Christmas gifts, etc.)
• Take all prizes from previous years of the event and lump them into another prize pool
• Possibly even take items from previous years' Onett and other common shop releases (not Nexus, Revolution, or Club Crypt) and lump them into another pool
• Make sure to have some standard quota of new prizes introduced each year per each event (something like 10-15 hats, 5-10 furnitures, 1-3 bombs/bows, 1-2 mounts, etc.)
• Throw in fillers like food, gralats, etc.

Combine all that together to create one large and growing prize to compliment the playercount increasing over time. Yeah, people will cry about "BUT MY EXCLUSIVE SHOP AND SEASONAL HATS THAT AREN'T SOLD ANYMORE," but oh well. It'd make the event better for newer players and give older players a chance at collecting the entire prize pool over many years. Everything would still be pretty rare.

It's obviously hard to continue to come up with hats, mounts, and furniture, especially when themed to a holiday, so this would ease some of the pressure of people expecting 3 pages of hats (like some of us got during Halloween 2013). Stuff like previous Nexus, Revolution, and Club Crypt items should be kept sacred, but everything else could just contribute to a larger pool and a more "fun" event. Quotes around fun because I know 99% only care about how many items they get rather than the actual gameplay of the event.  

Not related to the event in question, but a lot of posters in this thread ought to read this.

http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-ge...e-unhappy.html

If you are that riled up about not being returned all your spent candy, then I can easily foresee how disappointed you will be at the simplest of difficulties you encounter in the real world.  

Posted by Thallen

• Make sure to have some standard quota of new prizes introduced each year per each event (something like 10-15 hats, 5-10 furnitures, 1-3 bombs/bows, 1-2 mounts, etc.)
• Throw in fillers like food, gralats, etc.

That's a lot of stuff to be made along with Onnet shop and Club Crypt. Making that meany items every year (right before Christmas, mind you) is exactly what we want to avoid. It's unrealistic. No one will ever understand how difficult it is to come up with that many unique items ever single year unless you're the person that actually does it.

Posted by Thallen

Combine all that together and just create one large and growing prize pool to compliment the playercount increasing over time. Yeah, people will cry about "BUT MY EXCLUSIVE SHOP AND SEASONAL HATS THAT AREN'T SOLD ANYMORE," but oh well. It'd make the event better for newer players and give older players a chance at collecting the entire prize pool over many years. Everything would still be pretty rare.

Not "oh well". That's not how it works at all. People would go nuts over that and never buy anything knowing it would just be given away for free next year.  

It sounds as if you guys just went on a whim, instead of actually testing your event first?

It also sounds like you guys don't want people to get every single item. I mean, isn't the point of staying up all-night during a game's event to get all the items?

You guys messed up, it's okay. No one is dying about it, not that I know of...
Just relax, sure people are mad, but are they quitting the game? no...

I had hope that there was going to be an actual event this weekend, due to the fact that, 1. There were no leaderboards, and 2. You should have known that the playercount would have affected the event.

The casual players wanted bowls, so it would be easy. The try-hards wanted a skill based event. You tended to neither by removing the competition, and creating a bogus reward system. It's okay though. Live and Learn. Next time, state your ideas and let other people vote which one sounds more appealing.  

Posted by Coco

That's a lot of stuff to be made along with Onnet shop and Club Crypt. Making that meany items every year (right before Christmas, mind you) is exactly what we want to avoid. It's unrealistic. No one will ever understand how difficult it is to come up with that many unique items ever single year unless you're the person that actually does it.

Well, these are just numbers to put out as example. I don't understand what happened in 2013 though. You guys seemed to suddenly have 50+ hats during that Halloween event. There were so many other items as well. That built up quite an expectation.

Nearly all of these came from 2013:

Spoiler

It was probably way more than necessary and now people expect that level of quantity.

Posted by Coco

Not "oh well". That's not how it works at all. People would go nuts over that and never buy anything knowing it would just be given away for free next year.

I'd say it requires the same participation as does farming gralats, not that they're being given away for free. No one knows what hats are being removed from shops and when, no one is guaranteed to get any amount of items per event, these events occur once per year, etc. I really don't think people are that nuts over public shop hats, they seem like good filler content at times like this.

I can't imagine anyone seeing a hat at one of the public shops and saying, "I'll just wait until Halloween at the low-percent chance that I manage to get it as a prize." Stuff like Nexus and Revolution should be protected as a rarity though, I agree with that. Not to mention, you guys have given away shop hats as prizes before! In 2013, you could even win the Tailor Richaard's hats that were being sold as prizes during the Halloween event. Lots of hats during the Christmas event have been recycled as well.

I think you guys probably put too much stress on yourselves in upholding a high quality of content at times like this, when the reality is that most of these kids just want goodies and quantity. Even if you were to recolor some hats (as you can see recolors above from 2013's hats), people would be pleased. Not that it isn't admirable, it just looks like you guys do things the hard way and are rarely appreciated for it.  

Posted by Aguzo

It sounds as if you guys just went on a whim, instead of actually testing your event first?

Was the content broken? It wasn't. It was tested and it works as intended. We can't account for the 15,000+ unique players Classic has participating in the event. Even AAA games never get it right. This is why many new online games crash on release because you can never truly anticipate how players will truly play a game regardless of the all the testing and estimations. Not to mention we have 5 years of prior event input to go off of... oh ya, but that doesn't matter because every year players loved the very event they hated from the last year.

Posted by Aguzo

It also sounds like you guys don't want people to get every single item. I mean, isn't the point of staying up all-night during a game's event to get all the items?

No, it's the first day and players are whining they don't have everything. I don't care if players have everything, but they shouldn't have it all on the first day so they'll complain about how short the event was and how there's nothing else to do.

Posted by Aguzo

I had hope that there was going to be an actual event this weekend, due to the fact that

How is trick or treating not an event?

Posted by Aguzo

There were no leaderboards

Maybe next year!

Posted by Aguzo

2. You should have known that the playercount would have affected the event.

Of course we knew! We always know! And we can't do anything about it!

Posted by Aguzo

The casual players wanted bowls, so it would be easy. The try-hards wanted a skill based event. You tended to neither by removing the competition, and creating a bogus reward system.

Hey I wanted candy bowls released. I want players to have a variety of ways to obtain candy however they want to. That's the reason goblins were also added(no they weren't added after the event was released because of player response. They were planned the entire time).
Sadly the candy bowls are bugged and weren't fixed in time.

Posted by Aguzo

Next time, state your ideas and let other people vote which one sounds more appealing.

The event is out now and yet there's still no good suggestions. I don't think that was the problem at all.  

Maybe rash but whatever:

I find the notion that the GFX team not being able to come up with 10-15 unique, nice hats for a holiday event they new was coming up months ahead to be completely unacceptable. How is it that Unholy Nation is capable of delivering nicer (and more) hats with an average player count of 20? Hire more people if you need to, but I think 4 hats and 1 mount + a bunch of one time use items and fillers to be giant slap to the people who actually took a lot of time out to do well in the event.

Again- loved the event. Was fun hunting pumpkin blobs, ghosts and goblins (maybe could have used more ghosts to keep up with the rising player count), but I don't think it was executed well because of the prize pool.  

Posted by Thallen

I think you guys probably put too much stress on yourselves in upholding a high quality of content at times like this, when the reality is that most of these kids just want goodies and quantity. Even if you were to recolor some hats (as you can see recolors above from 2013's hats), people would be pleased. Not that it isn't admirable, it just looks like you guys do things the hard way and are rarely appreciated for it.

Prizes are the least of our worries. The idea is to create a self-sustaining event that can be reused every year rather than having to create a completely new event every time Halloween creeps around. Once an event is in place that can just be left alone next year we can start focusing more on the actual prizes and less on the event.

I believe this year is a good start for the foundation of an event that can be tweaked and improved rather than redone every year. It probably doesn't help that Halloween decorations were also made(and the overworld decorated) entirely from scratch this year and cut into the development time of the actual event.

Posted by David

I find the notion that the GFX team not being able to come up with 10-15 unique nice hats for a holiday event

People seem to not realize there is more than just the Halloween event. There is also Taylor Richaard's that needs Halloween hats, Onnet needs Halloween hats, and Club Crypt is also Halloween themed. Add onto the fact that all those things are done every year. It's bottom of the barrel now for new and unique ideas for hats. Unless you can suggest something?

Posted by David

they new was coming up months ahead to be completely unacceptable.

Yes, because there's absolutely nothing else that's made at all in the months leading up to Halloween.

Posted by David

Hire more people if you need to

Surely we can just *poof* people out of thin air and fill the positions, ya? Then absolutely make sure they stick to the strict schedule and make stuff in time for the next event... and if they don't do it then what? We fire them... ah man, now we have even less graphics staff to make content!

Posted by David

Was fun

I almost thought that was the entire point of playing a game.

Everyone whines that they're sick of hats, and then everyone whines when they don't get hats.

There's really not much point in debating it the event. Players seem to complain about Halloween every year until the next Halloween comes around and they suddenly adored the Halloween from the prior year. I'm not here to debate, but people need to realize we posted all the way back in August for input and nothing from that thread was viable content. Halloween is a very difficult holiday to make events for, especially when prior years kind of spoiled players in a way that set unrealistic expectations. We can't just shower players with dozens of prizes every year. Things had to change, and they did.  

Posted by Thallen

Well, these are just numbers to put out as example. I don't understand what happened in 2013 though. You guys seemed to suddenly have 50+ hats during that Halloween event. There were so many other items as well. That built up quite an expectation.

Spoiler

Nearly all of these came from 2013:

Spoiler

It was probably way more than necessary and now people expect that level of quantity.

Posted by Rufus

Doing that many rewards (for the same-**** holiday that Halloween is) isn't very sustainable in the long term. It is especially taxing when Halloween is so close to Christmas which also requires a lot of stock. They need to bring down the expectations a bit and move on.

We realized that was a mistake and way too much work, which is why we don't want to do it anymore.

Posted by Thallen

I'd say it requires the same participation as does farming gralats, not that they're being given away for free. No one knows what hats are being removed from shops and when, no one is guaranteed to get any amount of items per event, these events occur once per year, etc. I really don't think people are that nuts over public shop hats, they seem like good filler content at times like this.

I can't imagine anyone seeing a hat at one of the public shops and saying, "I'll just wait until Halloween at the low-percent chance that I manage to get it as a prize." Stuff like Nexus and Revolution should be protected as a rarity though, I agree with that. Not to mention, you guys have given away shop hats as prizes before! In 2013, you could even win the Tailor Richaard's hats that were being sold as prizes during the Halloween event. Lots of hats during the Christmas event have been recycled as well.

I think you guys probably put too much stress on yourselves in upholding a high quality of content at times like this, when the reality is that most of these kids just want goodies and quantity. Even if you were to recolor some hats (as you can see recolors above from 2013's hats), people would be pleased. Not that it isn't admirable, it just looks like you guys do things the hard way and are rarely appreciated for it.

How would people not know? They would find out and would be furious. Giving away things for free that were for sale the year prior is not a good idea and simply won't happen.