A cartoon teaching kids to run away from home out into the wilderness to run around with wild animals.  

Posted by Izarin Rofocale

Maybe you're pulling a Dora. You know, looking around but you can't see the obvious?

OMG thats halarious im using that one irl XD  

Posted by Izarin Rofocale

Maybe you're pulling a Dora. You know, looking around but you can't see the obvious?

I think what it must be is that everyone who likes KotH must see me and go 'that guy's making those stats up. Better not vote, must be rigged' which leads to the vote being even more one sided which leads to...

And that's what causes me to come across more people opposed to it that in favour to it.

Oh yeah, it could also be the fact that not that many people like it.  

Correction:

Posted by Pazx

I think what it must be is that everyone who likes KotH must see me and go "that guy's making those stats up. Better not vote, must be rigged" which leads to the vote being one sided.

And that's what causes me to come across more people opposed to that in favor to it.

Oh yeah, it could also be the fact that not many people like it.

Removed Words: Even More, That, Which Leads to...
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2453/trollfacenazi3.png (Unsupported image host)

Please don't try to bring up this "people don't like it" just so you can try to convince admins to remove Koth. Also, you don't really have supporting evidence that not much players like it. Whats the point of trying to defend your statements if you don't have the proof needed in the first place?

And either if you have it or not, according to the admins: Most people like Koth.. I think thats more than enough proof to stomp all over your defense  

Gosh pazx cant you see we all love KOTH its you against like 20 other people i think we win pazx, KOTH FTW!!!!  

Posted by mr froggy

Gosh pazx cant you see we all love KOTH its you against like 20 other people i think we win pazx, KOTH FTW!!!!

Posted by mr froggy

We all hate king of the hill ill give u 10 gralats if u take it away asap thanks admins, wuv u <3

Yea... Nice try on this one..  

Posted by Maikeru

Correction:


Removed Words: Even More, That, Which Leads to...

I'm not sure why you removed those words because the sentence was pretty simliar with them in it, and I cannot begin to understand why you bolded the word 'favour'. It was surrounded by several grammatical errors and you chose to bold 'favour' (which is a perfectly acceptable way of spelling anyway). Favourite armour favour colour rancour humour labour.

Also I don't see where you removed 'that'.  

Posted by Pazx

I'm not sure why you removed those words because the sentence was pretty simliar with them in it, and I cannot begin to understand why you bolded the word 'favour'. It was surrounded by several grammatical errors and you chose to bold 'favour' (which is a perfectly acceptable way of spelling anyway). Favourite armour favour colour rancour humour labour.

Also I don't see where you removed 'that'.

I think what it must be is that everyone who likes KotH must see me and go 'that guy's making those stats up. Better not vote, must be rigged'(' replaced with ") ,(added comma to split the two)which leads to the vote being even more(Removed these words. Not needed) one sided which leads to...(Removed these words. Should be best to end with a period)

And that's what causes me to come across more people opposed to it that in favour(Could be kept. I prefer favor however) to it.

Oh yeah,(Should be Removed) It could also be the fact that not that(Removed. Not needed) many people like it.

Now lets stop talking about the grammar Nazi business and get to the main point: You hate king of the hill. You claim that people also hate it yet you have no evidence to it. You also don't have supporting statements to prove it. You just claim that people hates it because guild people don't like it. why? explain in your own perspective. Do not count people in it. Just your perspective on why you hate it  

hehe where all against pazx muahaha  

Okay let's go.

First, it's slow. I hate the fact that the attackers (assuming the number of attackers is less than the number of defenders) run in, kill the defenders, then wait a minute for the defenders to come back in to find the flag only dropped to 180, then kill the defenders who in that time will have boosted the flag up to 210, then you just have a little bit more idling around the flag, then kill them, then wait, then kill them, then wait, then probably die a few times. When there are more attackers than defenders, the flag still ticks over so slowly, it just starts earlier as soon as there are more attackers than defenders.

It think KotH reduces the advantage defending has always had. In my opinion, it's meant to be easier to defend than to attack, and if the speed which the flag decreases increased with the ratio of attackers:defenders (which would please me otherwise) it would throw out that balance even more.

It's quantity over quality with KotH. It allows large groups to control forts while small ones struggle. If KotH was meant to allow newer guilds to take forts (as some people have mentioned I believe), it certainly doesn't serve that purpose as they have no chance against large groups of defenders.

On top of all that, Castle and Snow were two very basic yet unique forts, and now all the forts are complex because of how the way you played at Castle and Snow has changed.

One of the most enjoyable parts of Graal in my (and several others's) opinion is defending or attacking forts in small groups and still coming out on top. This doesn't happen with KotH. It's so frustrating you're defending and there's just a few more attackers than defenders who just run around the flag while it drops. Same goes when you're attacking, trying to kill the hordes of defenders and by the time you've killed enough for the flag to start dropping they're already coming back.

I have no opinion as to whether KotH should be featured on the FB server (I don't play on facey). I feel like the lower overall playercount might cause problems.

tl;dr
I want my sig back

p.s. The ratio of votes in my status is no longer 10:1 like it was for a long time. 88-12  

Hey everyone.


First of all, i agree completely with Pazx's opinion. King of The Hill not only has no place on the classic server, but , contrary to what most admins and non-tower takers think, is generally not liked by those of us who actually take towers on a regular basis.

i just finished reading through this entire arguement and theres a few points i'd like to mention.

Posted by NYN

We're gonna go with what people in feedback say about this. So far most people love it. It might just stay.

i understand going with what people say they like, obviously. but what youve got to also take into account is the fact that people who never take towers ( ie. people in social, school, roleplay, or other such guilds) outnumber the people who do. and many of those people are just going to vote yes because lets face it, half of them hope any agreement with admins will lead to them becomeing one. what i mean to say by all this is that people who aren't affected by King of The Hill, or at least hardly affected are voting the most for it.

Posted by Azrael

You also still re-spawn in the room, giving you that advantage as well.
----------

Change is hard to accept, but I think you guys will find KOTH really a nice alternative option to the standard "bash your iPod as fast as you can while standing next to the flag".

to begin with, you do not respawn in the same room. and although that would be a nice addition it still wouldnt solve the base problem most of graal's tower takers have with King of the hill : quantity over quality.

King of the hill promotes noob recruiting. i know that isn't really an issue point from an admin standpoint, but from a tower taker one it is. as is demonstrated by a LOT of people who focus on building their stats, quality is valued. Azrael also said that he thought king of the hill would promote an active elite group of tower takers. it would do the exact opposite.

I think the rest of the reasons pazx already covered in his above post.

and reguarding the seconf half of the above quote, id just like to day that if your impressing of non-king of the hill towers is "blindly bashing your ipod to hit a flag", i think you should try taking towers with a guild a few times and actually holding it. it takes alot more skill than bashing your ipod.
--

Please consider that there is a huge group of people on graal who don't like King of the Hill towers. if you remove them from classic, it still leaves the facebook option for those who really like it. and as i mentioned at the beginning of the post, many of the people feedbacking their love of King of the Hill wouldn't care if it was abolished on classic. there are, however, many people who would be upset if it stayed.  

Posted by Pazx

First, it's slow. I hate the fact that the attackers (assuming the number of attackers is less than the number of defenders) run in, kill the defenders, then wait a minute for the defenders to come back in to find the flag only dropped to 180, then kill the defenders who in that time will have boosted the flag up to 210, then you just have a little bit more idling around the flag, then kill them, then wait, then kill them, then wait, then probably die a few times. When there are more attackers than defenders, the flag still ticks over so slowly, it just starts earlier as soon as there are more attackers than defenders.

"First, it's slow"
Thats not a valid excuse. Next part..

Posted by Pazx

It think KotH reduces the advantage defending has always had. In my opinion, it's meant to be easier to defend than to attack, and if the speed which the flag decreases increased with the ratio of attackers:defenders (which would please me otherwise) it would throw out that balance even more.

Well its called strategy my friend.
If theres more attackers in the room than the defenders, it starts to decrease. Please notice that you can also defend the rooms. Its actually a good addition because it adds a taste of strategy rather than wasting hours of your time running in with bombs and swords, hoping to get into the flag room.

The people of the guild not only has to focus on their flag but how to prevent more attackers coming in so the amount of attackers in the room won't outrun the defenders in the room. Consider it a new challenge and get used to it

Posted by Pazx

It's quantity over quality with KotH. It allows large groups to control forts while small ones struggle. If KotH was meant to allow newer guilds to take forts (as some people have mentioned I believe), it certainly doesn't serve that purpose as they have no chance against large groups of defenders.

Um... That applies the same to guild towers...
If you have the larger group, you know you're already gonna win..

Posted by Pazx

On top of all that, Castle and Snow were two-

Skipped reading this part. Please remember that you're talking about King of the hill, not the castles. Next part..

Posted by Pazx

One of the most enjoyable parts of Graal in my (and several others's) opinion is defending or attacking forts in small groups and still coming out on top. This doesn't happen with KotH. It's so frustrating you're defending and there's just a few more attackers than defenders who just run around the flag while it drops. Same goes when you're attacking, trying to kill the hordes of defenders and by the time you've killed enough for the flag to start dropping they're already coming back.

Again... Its called strategy.
It adds a whole new challenge to attacking/defending forts because now you have to topple the amount of attackers/defenders in the room. So not only a group of 5 people in your guild have the flag but you also got to make sure that theres not more than 5 attackers coming after your room. You got to chop off the quantity in order to stay on top. See where im going with this?

Posted by Pazx

I have no opinion as to whether KotH should be featured on the FB server (I don't play on facey). I feel like the lower overall playercount might cause problems.

So far, no one is taking action against KotH in Graal classic. If they did, then the admins would have shut it down long time ago. It just goes to show how much people love it. Maybe you'd let this whole argument go and stop going against the fact that theres some-most people who like it alot

Posted by Skitz

First of all, i agree completely with Pazx's opinion. King of The Hill not only has no place on the classic server, but , contrary to what most admins and non-tower takers think, is generally not liked by those of us who actually take towers on a regular basis.

While get used to it, cause its not gonna move for a long time..
And please notice how its all about you attackers in small groups... Your statement has to regard both attackers and defenders... So shut up if you don't have anything to say for the defenders...

We don't care if people who take over guild forts cares... That doesn't make you or Pazx part of any special group and it doesn't support at all..

Posted by Skitz

i understand going with what people say they like, obviously. but what youve got to also take into account is the fact that people who never take towers ( ie. people in social, school, roleplay, or other such guilds) outnumber the people who do. and many of those people are just going to vote yes because lets face it, half of them hope any agreement with admins will lead to them becomeing one. what i mean to say by all this is that people who aren't affected by King of The Hill, or at least hardly affected are voting the most for it.

Be even thankful its a guild fort update because other than the flag, theres never gonna be one for quite a long time.

And it adds a new challenge to the game.
If you say quality beats quantity, then make sure that quantity doesn't topple over quality. Its called strategy darling. Use it wisely!

to begin with, you do not respawn in the same room. and although that would be a nice addition it still wouldnt solve the base problem most of graal's tower takers have with King of the hill : quantity over quality.

That wouldn't be a nice addition at all. That would actually piss off alot of players who take over forts. You're lowering the difficulty of taking a fort. Taking forts should never be easy!

King of the hill adds one difficult spice to the whole guild fort taking: Quantity!
The more people, the more harder its gonna be to take over forts!

Quality can topple over Quantity every day but you aren't thinking quality straight. You're just thinking "Oh... Here i go... Im just gonna rush in and hope i get the flag... If not, do it again.." and thats not strategy my friend. The whole point of guild towers is strategy and how you should conquer them. With King of the hill in play, it adds a new depth of strategy because now you got to focus on two things: Quantity and the Flag.

Imagine a war between two castles and while a group of red knights run after the blue knights, half of the red knights attack the blue knights (quantity) while two-three of the red knights go after the blue king (the flag). Thats called strategy. Its better than having a whole group of "attackers" running straight for the god damn flag, slashing endlessly until their blue in the face

Posted by Skitz

King of the hill promotes noob recruiting. i know that isn't really an issue point from an admin standpoint, but from a tower taker one it is. as is demonstrated by a LOT of people who focus on building their stats, quality is valued. Azrael also said that he thought king of the hill would promote an active elite group of tower takers. it would do the exact opposite.

Oh... So now you're blaming some of this on the new players? Basically, guild tower taking was made only for professionals? HAHAHAHAHA!
Next part!

and reguarding the seconf half of the above quote, id just like to day that if your impressing of non-king of the hill towers is "blindly bashing your ipod to hit a flag", i think you should try taking towers with a guild a few times and actually holding it. it takes alot more skill than bashing your ipod.

It doesn't take skill at all. All you've been doing in a guild fort is slashing with a group of members through the flag, got it, then slash every attacker in sight. Look at Venus Gospel. They made non-king of the hill towers look like a joke.

Please consider that there is a huge group of people on graal who don't like King of the Hill towers. if you remove them from classic, it still leaves the facebook option for those who really like it. and as i mentioned at the beginning of the post, many of the people feedbacking their love of King of the Hill wouldn't care if it was abolished on classic. there are, however, many people who would be upset if it stayed.

OMFG! Enough with the "Large Group" BS!
Where is this so called Large Group you have!? According to the feedback, theres people who like it and its not because they wanna be an admin.

Please notice that theres updates that people DO LIKE and it shouldn't be any of YOUR CONCERN to butt in and hate it along with Pazx because clearly your statements does not support ATTACKERS and DEFENDERS but only ATTACKERS. Your statements should support both of them. If your problem with it is only about quantity, then don't bother arguing, as you already lost this argument from the very start.

Do us all a favor... Learn the logistics..
Grab a piece of paper and pen with Pazx, write and think through every situation that would involve King of the hill and then using that piece of paper, i want you to tell us every problem and situation king of the hill has. If you're blaming this on quantity, you don't know strategy for sh*t..
---------------------------------------------

Anyone here got actual statements why king of the hill isn't good that does not involve QUANTITY?  

Lol! I agree 100% with what you said Maikeru! One thing though, i don't see how it caters to quantity over quality at all. Say there is 10 people in the flag room and only 5 people are attacking, these "quality" players could easily kill 2 people each which would give them the tower. It's more so about quality over quantity in my opinion, because you need to kill a lot of people instead of slashing a flag continuously in large groups. I also notice everyone against KotH is using this complete BS excuse for the fans by saying they don't even take towers. I'm sorry, but if someone is concerned with KotH or has an opinion about it they obviously take towers from time to time. Pazx, you are not some elite tower taker who's opinion trumps all of us peasants' views. If the majority of the people you are speaking to at the moment like it, obviously people like it.

I also find it funny how you said you went to Graal City and took a poll. I'm pretty sure the people who's opinion matters would be at towers according to your logic. ;)  

I wounder if this argument will ever end 0.0......  

Maikeru, not only have you misinterpreted every second point we made, you've been blatently rude to us.

I'll reply to the rest of your post later, but I'm sick of your "enough with the 'large group' bs!" bs.

I'll name everyone who's opposed it I can remember if I have to. We'll refrain from using that in our arguments from here on.