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-   -   Change Shotgun Damage? (https://www.graalians.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11308)

Meph 10-24-2012 03:41 AM
Change Shotgun Damage?
 
This is just to gather ideas. The result of this poll will not be the definite outcome.

What way would you like to see shotgun damage treated?

1) Higher damage, no stacking.
  • This means that a shotgun would only do a set amount of damage per shot, regardless of how many bullets hit.
2) Lower damage, stacked.
  • The current system- bullets do less damage, but each bullet can deal damage simultaneously.
3) Incremental stacked damage, with a max damage per shot.
  • Example: First bullet deals 4, next bullet does 5, next bullet does 6, and so on. Max damage: 20.

bobo 10-24-2012 03:52 AM
I find the nature of shotguns on a 2-Dimensional game very contradictory. Unlike shotguns in a 3-Dimensional world, the multiple bullets increase accuracy at any range, due to the better probability of getting at least one hit. Therefore, (strictly opinion) shotguns should not have stacked damage, even if shotguns in real life do.

Ventus277 10-24-2012 04:00 AM
Bobo is right it is meant to be more accurate with multiple bullets there is more of a chance.

the current system reflects this if only one hits its just 5dmg just as if your up close and bullets hit, then it can be devastating that's what shotguns do.

The third option I feel would be more powered than the current system.
Have you taken a look at snakes formula Meph?

Jester Lapse 10-24-2012 04:08 AM
So basically if one bullet hits you, you take 10 damage no matter what
Or
If one bullet hits you, you take 5 dmg+3 for every other bullet that hits? Hmm

failure 10-24-2012 04:20 AM
Incremental stacked damage is good because it supports the main concept of a shotgun: get as many hits as possible to deal more damage.
Non stacked would support bullet spamming.
Low damage but stacked is decent, but I like the increments more.

Quote:
Posted by bobo (Post 219630)
I find the nature of shotguns on a 2-Dimensional game very contradictory. Unlike shotguns in a 3-Dimensional world, the multiple bullets increase accuracy at any range, due to the better probability of getting at least one hit. Therefore, (strictly opinion) shotguns should not have stacked damage, even if shotguns in real life do.
No stacked damage would mean pure bullet spam for shotguns, imo

BabyGhost 10-24-2012 04:23 AM
If it had high damage but not stacked, that would make the shotgun feel more like a sniper(long ranged combat). Plus, it's not going to help the Peacemaker gun if the shotguns get high non-stacked damage.

Incremental can be nice and forces the shotgun to be in a more closer combat situation. It feels similar though to the current one.

Meph 10-24-2012 05:02 AM
The numbers for a PBP would be like this, comparatively:
1) Higher damage, not stacked: 8 damage.
2) Lower damage, stacked: 4 damage per bullet. = 16 damage potential.
3) Incremental stacked damage: 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 = 22 damage potential.

Personally I'm in favor of the higher, not stacked damage. Primarily because I'm old school.
We never used a shotgun as a main weapon. In combat, We took advantage of its bare-bones function: to shoot multiple bullets simultaneously. This was primarily utilized to bust down doors, and to shake up a fight.

I feel like I've had this conversation before.
Wait, I have! 12-07-2010:
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...&postcount=292

Spoiler
My post from Graal Forums, 12-07-2010

The only way this would work on Era would be, as Salesman already suggested, to lower each shotgun bullet to about 3 damage.

Era isn't a game where shotguns, or any gun for that matter, do damage in that fashion. It just doesn't happen. There's nothing wrong with the way they function now.

On Era, shotguns aren't supposed to be overpowered. They're not a PKing weapon. Their purpose on Era is to bust doors down, to deter or isolate a group of people, and to taunt. It's literally embarrassing to lose against a shotgun. This is the Era we know, and I see no reason for it to change. "Because other games do this" isn't very persuasive.

Clip size and reload speed are already level; and altering the bullet speed of any gun is laughable. It's been done before, and failed miserably. 65% of PKing on Era revolves around dodging bullets. This includes weaving in and out of bullets, matrix-style. This weaving is possible because the bullets move slightly faster than your player. Changing the speed of bullets would ruin this game- period.

And in case you're wondering where I distribute the other 35% of PKing:
25% of it is timing your shot, and 10% is knowing what guns to use in each situation.

LavaClaw 10-24-2012 05:10 AM
Would random stacked damage work? It seems a bit more realistic. I mean like each bullet could hit from 4-7 damage (this is just an example, not an actual suggestion for damage) because I think the incremental stacked damage system seems really odd. I feel it's more realistic because shotguns can pretty much hit anywhere, from your head to your foot, obviously being shot in the head would be more damaging than being shot in the foot.

Shock 10-24-2012 05:16 AM
I think stacked is best. Except with the exception to certain weapons. Changing up the method may make a weapon unique, compared to always stacking or always having a base value. Meph, search Shotgun Formula for a thread. That can help too, since we've been talking about this before this thread.

Quote:
Posted by LavaClaw (Post 219685)
Would random stacked damage work? It seems a bit more realistic. I mean like each bullet could hit from 4-7 damage (this is just an example, not an actual suggestion for damage) because I think the incremental stacked damage system seems really odd. I feel it's more realistic because shotguns can pretty much hit anywhere, from your head to your foot, obviously being shot in the head would be more damaging than being shot in the foot.
This is pretty much what I'm talking about.

Or, as the formula goes... You could have a base value and a multiplier that determines your max damage per bullet, and also per shot.

Meph 10-24-2012 05:20 AM
Will do, shock. Thanks.

Ghettoicedtea 10-24-2012 06:59 PM
no not incremental stacked damage. seriously, the bullets are the size of your freakin hand making it way to easy to land 4 hits even at really long range. Im fine with higher damage like 8 damage, that would make it much more fair.

Also they need a nerf now, incroments will just make shotguns evenmore OP. seiously, this gun works way too good at range. high damage, no stack all the way

Quote:
Posted by LavaClaw (Post 219685)
Would random stacked damage work? It seems a bit more realistic. I mean like each bullet could hit from 4-7 damage (this is just an example, not an actual suggestion for damage) because I think the incremental stacked damage system seems really odd. I feel it's more realistic because shotguns can pretty much hit anywhere, from your head to your foot, obviously being shot in the head would be more damaging than being shot in the foot.
First off, this isnt real, this is era where candycanes and bamboo rods deal more damage than swords n knifes. Also theres no headshots in era. With increments it could be the other way around, least damage from the head and most in the foot.


I also agree with meph, i liked old school shotguns, they also were frekin great at long range, thats changed very little as of today.

Quote:
Posted by BabyGhost (Post 219653)
If it had high damage but not stacked, that would make the shotgun feel more like a sniper(long ranged combat). Plus, it's not going to help the Peacemaker gun if the shotguns get high non-stacked damage.

Incremental can be nice and forces the shotgun to be in a more closer combat situation. It feels similar though to the current one.
No not at all, shotguns are already beating most everything in long range combat since the bullets are the size of your hand and theres virtualy no spread. Seriously try going into a base using only shotguns, they already deal 8 damage at range. Also its not hard to roll out 20 damage on a shotgun at range.

Also im getting tired of people boosting pks and thinking there so great because they use a PBP and PBP users are harder to kill than a regular rifleman.

If you really want to force a shotgun in close range then keep it the way it is currently and make the range about as far as you can throw a frag.

Shock 10-24-2012 09:26 PM
Quote:
Posted by Ghettoicedtea (Post 219929)
no not incremental stacked damage. seriously, the bullets are the size of your freakin hand making it way to easy to land 4 hits even at really long range. Im fine with higher damage like 8 damage, that would make it much more fair.

Also they need a nerf now, incroments will just make shotguns evenmore OP. seiously, this gun works way too good at range. high damage, no stack all the way



First off, this isnt real, this is era where candycanes and bamboo rods deal more damage than swords n knifes. Also theres no headshots in era. With increments it could be the other way around, least damage from the head and most in the foot.


I also agree with meph, i liked old school shotguns, they also were frekin great at long range, thats changed very little as of today.



No not at all, shotguns are already beating most everything in long range combat since the bullets are the size of your hand and theres virtualy no spread. Seriously try going into a base using only shotguns, they already deal 8 damage at range. Also its not hard to roll out 20 damage on a shotgun at range.

Also im getting tired of people boosting pks and thinking there so great because they use a PBP and PBP users are harder to kill than a regular rifleman.

If you really want to force a shotgun in close range then keep it the way it is currently and make the range about as far as you can throw a frag.
I completely disagree. No nerf is needed right now. It's all about how you use it, which is how every gun in era is like. Even when they spam, shotgun users can be venerable. If you know how many shots they have before reload you can use timing to even the odds. And, if you know anything about sparring... A Pbp user can be killed easily with the right method.

Also, the damage isn't 8 damage. It's currently 4 per bullet. So that's only 16 damage if a Pbp hits you with one blast. This damage difference is a big deal. Imagine if the BAR did 8 damage. It'd be an m16 with freeze.

Engel 10-24-2012 09:56 PM
Quote:
Posted by Shock (Post 220010)
I completely disagree. No nerf is needed right now. It's all about how you use it, which is how every gun in era is like. Even when they spam, shotgun users can be venerable. If you know how many shots they have before reload you can use timing to even the odds. And, if you know anything about sparring... A Pbp user can be killed easily with the right method.

Also, the damage isn't 8 damage. It's currently 4 per bullet. So that's only 16 damage if a Pbp hits you with one blast. This damage difference is a big deal. Imagine if the BAR did 8 damage. It'd be an m16 with freeze.
Actually, a pbp can be quite a dangerous opponent in spar. I'm not a "pro" but you shouldn't change a guns stats based on how good you are at spar. And praise the lord it isn't 8 damage, I find 4 damage pretty overpowered already.

And if the BAR did 8 damage it would still be a good weapon, even with less damage it's way better than the M16.

bobo 10-24-2012 10:19 PM
Most of the shooting is at close range, and if you don't zoom out it's near impossible to dodge soon enough. 20 max damage is insane; I prefer the old days when shotguns were used to hit multiple people at long range, instead of walk next to someone and spray their ass off.

Ghettoicedtea 10-25-2012 01:19 AM
Quote:
Posted by Shock (Post 220010)
I completely disagree. No nerf is needed right now. It's all about how you use it, which is how every gun in era is like. Even when they spam, shotgun users can be venerable. If you know how many shots they have before reload you can use timing to even the odds. And, if you know anything about sparring... A Pbp user can be killed easily with the right method.

Also, the damage isn't 8 damage. It's currently 4 per bullet. So that's only 16 damage if a Pbp hits you with one blast. This damage difference is a big deal. Imagine if the BAR did 8 damage. It'd be an m16 with freeze.
Tsk tsk tsk its 20 damage max which is OP. no gun should achive that damage espicaly fast guns like the pbp. Tried basing in bbz when a pbp is spamming the narrow halls? Let me tell you, its miserable. Also pbp takes 0 skill what so ever. All you do is just spam and your garunteed a kill. Even with the correct method, they are still hard to kill. Also the reload was improved a lot on all shotguns so counting the shots wont help much.

I agree with bobo. The old shotguns were much better, i liked those much more than current ones. Those were actualy used to hit multiple targets unlike now when there used to spam a guy.

Also basing has become extremley difficult for non shotgun users. I tried a pbp on my friends iphone and no joke i was unstoppable when i faced up against a gang with no shotguns. Its miserable and it really adds no challange to users. All they do is, charge, spam, retreat, heal, charge and it goes on in a loop


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