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McCullough 05-02-2020 01:28 AM

Bugs and the Economy
 
It should be apparent to many by now about the nerf to bug values. Now, with the addional economic nerf to farming, things are starting to look grim financially, as well as timely, unsuitable to experienced players.

This thread is here for us to discuss the future possibility of bug value being reverted to what was once an enjoyable, worthwhile activity. Bug hunting in general really has lost its luster and has become almost illegitimate as a means of earning gralats within the game. Hopefully, with your attention and consideration, this would no longer be the case, and things would be made slightly easier and worthwhile for everyone.

I would like to start off with a list of all the available bugs within the game, including the five new ones.

Here the old prices will be listed alongside their current values and their respective rarity levels. It's likely rarity levels have been adjusted, too, so I'm a tad biased with what I've personally been seeing.
The bugs are listed from least to most valueable. I have at least one of every bug, but have never personally seen the Spider in its habitat, and I do not have a spider. 'Eventual' means you're more than likely to find the bug if you continue your current method. 'Interpretive' means that since the bug is new, we're all still finding out the rarity level.
[B]Some bugs have been buffed as of 05/26/2020, and are no longer to be of reference for the argument. [B]

Bugs, Costs, and Rarity
Spoiler

•Worm: 1g... Uncommon(Eventual)
•Cockroach: 5g-4g Very Common
•Dragonfly: 8g Very Common
•Monarch butterfly: 34g-8g Uncommon
•Large White butterfly: 20g-14g Common
•Grasshopper: 20g-14g Common
•Water Strider/Pondskimmer: (Buffed from 14)35g Common
•Emperor butterfly: 16g Common
•Silverfish: (Buffed from 16) 22g Uncommon(Interpretive)
•Cicada: (Buffed from 18) 26g Uncommon(Interpretive)
•Arctic Spider: (Buffed from 20)42g Uncommon
•Ringlet butterfly: 34g-20g Common
•Fatal Metal butterfly: 22g Common
•Ladybug: 37g-24g Common
•Swallowtail butterfly: 40g-26g Common
•Firefly: 34g-26g Uncommon
•Praying Mantis: 52g-26g Uncommon
•Blue Morpho butterfly: 51g-28g Uncommon
•Small Blue butterfly: 52g-28g Uncommon
•Spring Azure butterfly: 28g Common
•Centipede: (Buffed from 28) 52g Rare
•Clouded Yellow butterfly: 53g-30g Common
•Arizona Sister butterfly: 30g Common
•Black Beetle: 55g-32g Common
•Tiger butterfly: 69g-38g Rare
•Agrias butterfly: 71g-38g Uncommon
•Peacock butterfly: 70g-38g Rare
•Spider: 70g-??? Very Rare
•Black Ladybug: 73g-40g Uncommon
Green Hairstreak butterfly: 84g-46g Rare
•Bumblebee: 87g-48g Rare
•Pillbug: 86g-50g Very Rare

As you can see, all of these bug values have been nerfed between 20% to as high as 55%. 55% is very significant. The Dragonfly is the only bug that hasn't had a value change, besides the Worm.

I honestly think these values need to be adjusted. This is probably the one and only activity besides Baddy Killing that requires effort. Looting is good but only requires patience and luck. The frustrating thing about loot and bugs is that some loot items sell for much more than some bugs, and looting is the easiest way to make gralats. People have to compete for bugs, which makes them instantly more valueable in my eyes, but they aren't right now.

I'm good friends with Beryl, and even she thinks King Tristam's price regulations are hard to work with. The lowered prices have caused a deflation in the potion business, and that's hurt a little bit. She can't charge as much for her potions, and she's been struggling a little. Good thing these new bugs popped up, at least Beryl has some new potion recipes to make. And, due to the unlikelyhood of finding some of these new bugs, the new potions she can create can cost a pretty gralat or two. :D

It would seem the values are based more on rarity level than anything. I would think more attributes need to be added to make the value of the bug mean more, such as 1: Rarity, of course. 2: The areas they can be found. 3: Catching difficulty, and 4: competitive influence the bug could have on players.

Habitats
Spoiler

As we know, bugs have their habitats. I love how the five new bugs are introduced within their own new and niche habitats. Butterflies can be found almost anywhere depending on species, except snow or desert areas. Dragonflies are primarily all over Swamp. Both Lady bug species can typically be anwhere, too, but aren't as common as a butterfly. Grasshoppers are anywhere, except caves or Deadwood or Swamp. Fireflies are niche and are only really seen in Deadwood during a certain season. Spiders, too.
Roaches and Beetles aren't necessarily niche, but are mostly seen in caves. They may appear in houses or other buildings, as well.
Pillbugs can be found anywhere, except snow or desert areas. They're exceedingly rare.
The Arctic Spider is the first winter bug we've seen. It's only found in Snowtown, but it's likely we'll see it everywhere in Graal during the winter season. The Cicada is niche and prefers trees. Like the Silverfish, it can be caught from only one direction, which is to swing your net upwards. The Silverfish can be found in houses or buildings where there are bookshelves. The Pondskimmer is seen in puddles in caves or Swamp Town, and Centipedes in vaces.


Now that we know their habitats, let's discuss their values.
Some butterfly values are attrocious. I hardly see Monarchs, and they're only worth 8 gralats. Honestly, I don't see very many different butterflies in the game right now. I only ever see the Swallowtail, Clouded Yellow, Large White, Arizona Sister, and Fatal Metal butterflies. That's 5 of 12 butterflies. I guess 7 of them are rare. I haven't seen a Mantis in ages, either.

Cockroaches are only worth 4g. Disgusting. They're very common, but it's disheartening when 100 roaches don't even get you 1000g, let alone 500g. There are 31 bugs in the game; I'd have to wait a month to get roaches again and sell them as the bug of the day,aybe even longer since some bugs are cycled multiple times throughout a month.

Worms are a huge waste of time to hunt for.
With a value of only 1g and no other use for them, it begs to question why this bug even exists. Even as the bug of the day, they're still worth only 1g. They aren't even that common to find, and you may have to spend at least 30 minutes to an hour just digging to find one worm. If fishing were to be brought back, they should no longer be a bug but should be a resource in a bait and tackle shop, for which the owners should pay a lot more for.

The Bumblebee is the only bug that can harm a player. They're also rare, and difficult to catch. They're worth only 48g... That's discouraging enough for me to not bother trying to catch them on purpose.

The Pillbug has to be the second rarest bug in the game. Not difficult to catch, but you're never likely to see one anywhere. They're only worth 50g.

My point is there's no specialty to catching them, even if they're super rare. It's just a little bonus. "Nice! You caught a bee! Take it for less than 100g!" Or "You're the first person to find and catch a Pillbug in 4 days! Take it for less than 100g!" It's a slap in the face.


[/Spoiler]
Updates/Buffs/Nerfs
Spoiler
Discovered 05/26/2020: All 5 newest bugs have been buffed in value;
Centipedes: 28g to 52g (1.86x), and are now the most valueable bug in the game. Arctic Spiders: 20g to 42g (2.20x). Pondskimmers: 14g to 35g (2.50x). Cicadas: 18g to 26g (1.45x). Silverfish: 16g to 22g (1.38x). They should no longer be used for reference to the argument.
Subsequently Discovered 05/31/2020: All Bug of the Day(BOTD) value increases have been standardised to 1.50x.


Overall, I believe bug prices need to be buffed, or at least the BOTD value change should be buffed. It's tough enough to think I'm putting in all this effort and feel like it's not enough. It feels like a grind, and that's discouraging. Looting should not be a better alternative to something that requires more time and effort.

The BOTD value increase seems to be standardised for every bug; 1.50x more if Beryl needs that bug. I believe that needs to be AT LEAST 2.00x to 4.00x more instead.

Would like to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Thank you.

4-Lom 05-02-2020 04:57 PM

Pillbug used to be 300 g on a normal day.

Not to derail this, but fp4 promised our furniture would go back to 50% like a year ago when furniture resale got nerfed, too.

McCullough 05-02-2020 05:46 PM

Quote:

Posted by 4-Lom (Post 830554)
Pillbug used to be 300 g on a normal day.

Not to derail this, but fp4 promised our furniture would go back to 50% like a year ago when furniture resale got nerfed, too.

300g for 1 Pillbug is pretty hefty for sure. I only ever see 1 Pillbug every 3 or 4 months, so theoretically I think 300g is a good number.

I read about the furniture resale buff, too, but it's already been a year and we just got another nerf to the economy.

Garutias 05-04-2020 05:37 AM

doubt this will happen, there's a reason why prices were nerfed, looting cap reduced and recently - inability to farm in guild houses apparently. The target demographic for players on iClassic are young children. People with even half a brain will understand what I'm hinting at.

McCullough 05-04-2020 09:31 PM

Quote:

Posted by Garutias (Post 830569)
doubt this will happen, there's a reason why prices were nerfed, looting cap reduced and recently - inability to farm in guild houses apparently. The target demographic for players on iClassic are young children. People with even half a brain will understand what I'm hinting at.

I don't doubt anything. I don't think lowering the prices encourages spending money, especially younger kids. They just end up quitting. My younger brothers quit because they say making gralats is too difficult.

I was traversing the caves and catching roaches. Found lots of beetles and even found a Pillbug. As I was catching roaches, some girl was like, "Dude, they're super cheap..."

Oh well. I'm gonna keep grinding for fricken gralats.

McCullough 05-07-2020 08:32 PM

I have added a section with the recorded value changes from the Bug of the Day. It will be updated daily until I've recorded all Bug of the Day values.

McCullough 05-26-2020 05:38 PM

I have added a buffs and update section. The 5 new bugs have all been buffed in value ranging from 1.38x to 2.50x more than their first original value. I will continue to update this section if I notice any other buffs. I will state that I probably won't use those bugs for reference to the argument, as I think they're decent buffs. They could have probably been better, but I'll take it.

4-Lom 05-27-2020 08:44 PM

Centipedes. I've found three different kinds of vase in game, each with different speeds they're picked up or thrown and one with an old fashioned graphic instead of the new one. Haven't been able to find a centipede... yet. Where did anyone else find them?

McCullough 05-28-2020 12:32 AM

Quote:

Posted by 4-Lom (Post 830711)
Centipedes. I've found three different kinds of vase in game, each with different speeds they're picked up or thrown and one with an old fashioned graphic instead of the new one. Haven't been able to find a centipede... yet. Where did anyone else find them?

The last time I found Centipedes, they were in those red-striped vaces. They're extremely rare is all. A vace can spawn up to 2, so you can make up to 104 gralats just picking up a vace and catching them.

Just pick up vaces. Preferably not ones where many people are or where there are tons of vaces.

McCullough 05-31-2020 03:04 PM

It seems the Bug of the Day (BOTD) value increase has been standardised to 1.50x. I think it should be at least 2.00x instead, but it's more consistant and may save me some time. I'll continue my observations to confirm this, as the Centipede had one of the highest BOTD increases before at 2.78x, but due to the buff to its original price from 28g to 52g, a 1.50x increase would keep it at 78g, which was confirmed by myself and a friend from our observations. 28*2.78=78, and 52*1.50=78. Technically no change, but it's all standardised to 1.50x.

Arctic Spiders had the highest BOTD at 3.15x.

They were worth 20g before the buff, and 20*3.15 is 63.
They're buffed value is now 42, and as the BOTD on 05/31/2020, they are worth 63. 42*1.50=63.

Technically the bugs weren't buffed, as the BOTD value remains the same. This further confirms the BOTD values are standardised to 1.50x.

Thoughts?

4-Lom 06-01-2020 04:37 AM

Shhh. Dusty will change them again if we complain too much .

Christopher 09-10-2020 03:52 PM

my thoughts on fishing and bumblebees
 
Quote:

Posted by McCullough (Post 830550)
Would like to hear your thoughts on the matter. Thank you.

Quote:

Posted by McCullough (Post 830550)
Worms are a huge waste of time to hunt for.
With a value of only 1g and no other use for them, it begs to question why this bug even exists. Even as the bug of the day, they're still worth only 1g. They aren't even that common to find, and you may have to spend at least 30 minutes to an hour just digging to find one worm. If fishing were to be brought back, they should no longer be a bug but should be a resource in a bait and tackle shop, for which the owners should pay a lot more for.

i don’t know man. i remember when the worms were first added,
and everyone was specualating if it means that fishing will be added. yeah. to this day no fishing in sight.
would be cool though in my opinion.
i think that was around the time the facebook mirror server was around or shortly after it was closed. somewhere around 2014? i don’t know for sure. i kinda like the idea of having to dig for worms. that’s really realistic and

”i feel like a bait/fishing shop would take away the “classic” from classic.”

it would go too much into the direction of era/‘ol west in my opinion. maybe the fishing in classic will be a whole different thing. i mean the fishing in era and ‘ol west are already so different from one another. and zone hasn’t released it’s fishing yet either,
though there is a closed fishing shop.

”the NPC who buys fish on classic should be interacted with,
like beryl the witch is interacted with.”

to just hold up the fish to sell and then the NPC names a price.
of course a place to sell the fish would be necessary though, aswell as an increase in the drop rates of worms for sure. i mean if fishing were ever to be added to classic and this would be the way it goes, it seems fair to increase the drop rate. maybe it’d even be a whole other thing than getting bait or digging for worms too.

Quote:

Posted by McCullough (Post 830550)
The Bumblebee is the only bug that can harm a player. They're also rare, and difficult to catch. They're worth only 48g... That's discouraging enough for me to not bother trying to catch them on purpose.

yeah man, i think they were worth 86 gralats before. there was a time
(it was around 2014-2015 too i think.) where i would specialize in collecting bees only. it was very well paying. i always collected bees near castle where there was a bunch of bushes. i think one time i made up to 100,000 gralats. it was a great way to pk and hunt bugs at the same time. so i know what you mean. that’s definitely a nerf. but like..
i remember, i would make so many gralats just from bees, after a while i would stop hunting, farming or collecting any kinds of gralats because there was simply no need, for me at least. i had so many gralats i was able to make multiple sets of house/guildhouses with different furniture set-ups. so i see why that would be nerfed. the reward was very high. but i was thinking that too.. would be nice if it were back again.. who knows. i’m saying it was nerfed for a reason.

”if you didn’t notice, this game has a real life effect on bugs and not only bugs. from what i’ve seen.”


ever since i was collecting the bumblebees, i’ve also noticed, bees, hornets, wasps, all those yellow stingers were exceptionally nice to me. they often come visit me. at home or outside, when going for a walk. from 2016 to 2018 when i moved from the village to a small town.
(i don’t live in either of those places anymore,
i’m at the outskirts of a bigger city now)
i was living in a four story building with very small flats and multiple of them next to eachother, on the top floor and the yellow stingers would even make a nest on my balcony.

”i think a price of 86 gralats per bumblebee was just a little too much to expect of them.”

Heeble 09-10-2020 08:07 PM

looting is fishing

4-Lom 09-11-2020 04:54 PM

Treasure maps are quests.

McCullough 07-25-2021 08:32 PM

Update as of 07/25/2021
I've noticed bugs have been cycled this year. I saw no bees this summer, and I'm seeing more exotic bugs like Green Hairstreaks, Small Blues, Peacocks, and Mantises. I'm still seeing the more common bugs like Large Whites, Ringlets, Swallowtails, Clouded Yellows, Emperors, Agrias's, Grasshoppers, and both Destiny butterflies.

I've not seen any Tigers, Monarchs, Ladybugs, Black Ladybugs, worms, or Spiders.

As far as I'm concerned, regular Spiders are extinct in Graal. I've not seen a regular Spider in years, and others have said the same.

I've not been able to find worms, either.

I dislike this cycling between different bugs biannually as it's always been done. The values are still low and the cycling doesn't make much sense anymore, especially when half of the bugs are worse in value than others.

Ground bugs like Roaches, Beetles, Pillbugs, and Waterstriders seem to be around all year like normal. I haven't actively looked for Centipedes but I'm sure nothing's changed.

Still gonna wait for value changes. :)


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