Stolen Hat - Christmas
 

Guys, if you wanted me to be apart in the Holiday GFX entry, then you could've just asked...

Yesterday, it was no secret that many kids were seen running around in one of the 5uicide 5quad Gang Hat concepts. Personally, it doesn't bother me much, but for the sake of 55, I'd appreciate if the hat would be removed due to the future possibility of the hat being uploaded as their second gang hat.

I've uploaded four pictures in evidence that the concept work is mine:


The first and second are of the two original image concepts I emailed Harley when first discussing the hat.

^ The third image is one that I took just now, a screenshot on my laptop. It is of the date I finished and emailed the files to her: Friday, April 7, 2017.

The fourth is of (left) Nathan's plagiarized version, and (right) my original work. I'd say that they're different enough to be considered separate works, but the pure dead give-away is that he eye-droppered my colors lol

-Whippy

Hello Whippy,

first of all I understand how you feel. I made gfx in the past too and a different version of it got accepted 6 months later.

Have you talked to Nathan directly before making this post? Or did you bring this up before talking to him?
Did Nathan know about your draft?

Who would want to edit such beautiful work

Sorry whippy for this but.

Once your gfx is uploaded on graal unixmad/stephane portha owns that unless you get your work copyrighted or if its uploaded on a other game ol west can and most likely will refuse to take your content off the server due to dumb laws. Now you could take this to court and beat stephane portha easily on this but #1 it isnt worth the time and money #2 Stephane Porthas hiding in france. So good luck is all I can say

Lel he thinks ss going 4k

Lyvia,

Lmfao that's just outrageous xD equally as sorry for your ordeal as well, man!... Actually yeah, Nathan sent me an invite to his house yesterday after (I suppose) 5uicide 5quad members messaged him about it. Nathan privately offered me gralats, horseshoes, and this fancy-looking alien in a green cryo tank furniture item... I guess to keep my mouth shut? I invited one of my friends to his house during this time, so I have a witness if need be... (lol this is beginning to sound like an episode of Perry Mason) X,DD But yeah, we told Nate that I'd be reporting this, and he shrugged it off. Didn't deny anything said about his plagiarism though. And nah, I only recall sharing my work through KIK with members of 55 and friends from West.

TWIZ,

At the end of the day, I don't care. My work, I considered it to be a decent light study, and then I throw it in a file on my laptop to collect dust lmao... but if Nathan is so obsessed with me... y'think that if I posted an image of my ass on KIK... ol' Nate might gfx it into a hat next Christmas? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Mr. Tomato,

LMFAO. That was awesome. I'm sitting here with this big dumb grin on my face. I knew Perry Mason was lurking around here some place lol... 'ight but yeah I saw this coming. Technical stuff aside, I know I can't do anything about it. I came to ask out of respect to the work, 55, and I suppose... humanity? LOL. Really, like I said, it's whatever. But it is pretty embarrassing. Flattering, but embarrassing.

And Tomato, I urged Harley and everyone to stop and go find a more quality game (or just get lives lol) to play after 55 hit the 1.5k... but I think they love each other too much. It's ridiculous, but I can fairly confidently say that they will hit the 4k due to needing a game to support each others' company... Tbh I think I'll be asking for a mount template before I leave again.

No it's fantastic. Your sel out skills are great and your shading style reminds me of my own. I'm curious to see what you would do with a more elaborate palette.

The problem i had was that, after seeing the original in development for so long, it was almost embarrasing to see such a shoddy rip-off (no offense but yes offense) of a truly great hat. Alot of time and effort went into it and after talking with the 'Nathanator' his view on the act of plaguerism was "idc".

Im glad the community seems to mostly agree that the artwork is stolen (i expected a lynch-mob going off of track record..) and it's a shame that not a lot can be done about it.

However! In the actual submission thread it did specifically say that "stolen artwork will be immediately denied", understandably, it's difficult to discern whether a hat/concept is stolen but if the evidence is given, shouldn't it only make sense for the hat to be removed, refunded, etc.?

Interesting...
I didn't know you were invited to his house plus brought 5 people. I'll definitely ask Nathan about it. You and your 5 friends may discuss with me too.

Yeah Nathan seems much like "Idk" and "Idc" and I know his english isn't that good. I used to base with Silence for 4 months and I never heard talking him much. His english isnt that good. Which is why I decided to join the discussion and help to understand what is going on. I have an Italian colleague and he reminds me much of Nathan. ;)

Nathan told me he saw this hat in a movie once and wanted to make it.

Don't get me wrong guys. I can very much understand that you're upset!

But how can Nathan copy your hat when he never saw your sprite?

Either some SS member sent him and he copied or it is simply coincidence that he made it.
But I don't deny it they really look close.
I mean how can you "copy" so closely when you don't have the original file?

I ve seen Nathan's GFX at the time when I just was hired and now. He improved alot and I m proud of it. Hell ya - I wish I could improve like this too but I cant do much gfx lately.
Furthermore Nathan had 18 of his hats accepted onto Ol West for XMAS. With that great result he actually doesn't need to steal. He sounded like he didnt do it on purpose.

As I said what bothers me is that colors look close even though he doesn't have your file.

I thought u quit this game u hate

Since this seems like a juicy expose thread I'll join in on the fun

The lineart is too similar, it even matches up for most parts of the hat and at other times he simply linetraced around the already existing outline.
The colors are super close to the point where it is obvious that Nathan has colorpicked them over and slightly changed them.

Here's some evidence with the lines overlapping and I've also picked out some of the colors which are almost identical to eachother.

GIF:
https://i.imgur.com/rJUA4iO.gif

PNG:
https://i.imgur.com/hLJazhT.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/rQgD7FR.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/vk5VEgr.png


Also Lyvia, if you are confident about him creating original content then please post the rest of his work and perhaps this'll turn out to be even more enjoyable than it already is :love:

Most of Ol’West is stolen artwork, what else is new.

"Oops I accidentally edited your hat"

90% of the line art matches up and the colors are exactly the same. This was no accident.

I think "plagiarized" is the more proper, loosely-based term here, as he didn't just take my hat directly and submit it. But yes, looking through a non-politically correct eye, anyone on the planet could see this and deem it "stolen". Lmfao Twiz nailed it xD ... btw Twiz, thanks for the compliments- you said my shading reminds me of your own- hmu sometime and share your work- I'm always down for some art swap.

Eugeen. Thanks for taking the time to do that, man. Very tidy work. Very much appreciated.

Lyv, I invited one friend during my visit with Nathan. It was J*, in fact. And as he said, embarrassingly yes, I really busted my butt over this piece. To see it ripped off and stuck in the very game that I designed it for was... well (I try to keep calm these days) yeah, it was pretty lame. I'd much rather had someone contact me and ask for the hat directly if I knew this was going to be its fate (heck I could've even thrown some holiday edits on it).

^ I'd like for Nathan to produce a screenshot of the hat in the movie he saw... because this morning, I dug up five more papers of concept work I have displaying this hat. I can also share my influences and thoughts before the hat even made it on paper. On the side, I don't see why you're listing all of these 'Nathan Fun Facts', as his personality or gfx struggle doesn't have anything to do the plagiarizing matter? And as for him bribing me in his house, he can verify this- because as sure as I'm alive and breathing, it did happen.

I did quit. Purely coincidental when I came back for a few days' visit with the SS kids. As soon as this matter is taken care of, I'll be gone again- don't worry lol

Ill explain the ambiguities here.
1. There were not "five friends" it was just whippy and i
2. Nathan HAD seen the sprite, a member of our gang leaked an early version of the hat (funnily enough that member is now in silence).
3. It is clearly plaguerised. Like Eugeen said, the line-art is similar and various details were clearly copied. Not to mention the literal 'eye-dropping" of the colours.

Edit: whippy how did we post replies at the exact same minute about the exact same thing haha

Double edit: yeah Nathan did get 18 of his hats approved. He also got three stalls for halloween this year and most of his hats were'nt themed for the event and im not even going to talk about the bow.

*reads over my reply for grammatical errors, logs out, sees your post

AHH MI AMIGO, I believe to further the question, WHEN WE SIMULTANEOUSLY CLICKED THE "SUBMIT REPLY" KEY, HOW DIDN'T OUR POSTS QUANTUM INTERMINGLE AND BLOW UP THE GRAAL FORUMS?!... obviously I'm just closer to the server than you, and my reply came in 0.00000001 seconds earlier... for the sake of all Graalians, be glad that it did.

(whaddabout that post from Eugeen eyy? snazzy stuufff)

you should contact wings and talk to him about this

First of all, yes - I didn't compare the lineart since I haven't had that much time to go on the laptop lately. Thanks for making this gif Eugeen.
Already the same color scheme caught my attention.

You said the member leaked the early version. Do you have that version by any chance? Did it have the shape and color scheme yet?

And yeah - the points you bring up sound reasonable. As Tay already adviced you to contact Wingsfield about it, it is really the best thing to do.

It all makes sense now lmao i swear the gang needs removed

(Quoted the wrong post whoops)

No i don't have any previous copies, if anything Whippy might but its not necessary. Most of the changes from memory were minor details and some different shading choices. Line-art and the color pallete were mostly the same from from the get-go

Who are you defending? It's obvious. Same color scheme? It's the same COLORS. I don't think O.P. would come to graalians just to make a post without any reasonable suspicion, especially when they clearly have the experience to know what an edit looks like. I would understand your take on this argument if it was based on the right to listen to both sides, but right now it kinda sounds like you're merely skeptical and in denial. Then again, I have no idea who the hell any of you are because I don't play Ol West. I'm just here to say, "yeah, that's definitely an edit of someone else's work."

Here's my advice:
1. Remove the hat from the game
2. Forget that this even happened

Lyvia, you sound like a criminal investigator trying to interrogate someone that already told you everything you need to know

This is so low...

TWIZ is the hero West doesn't deserve.

As much evidence as there is, nothing will be done most likely. West is too far gone and i don't mean to sound so pessimistic there. Went from your good old corruption, to theft and now the whole pk and basing scene is basically ruined because of a new boomerang weapon that is accessible to everyone. If my iPad2 allows it, im on the first beta-boat to Delteria.

I just was curious to see an earlier version. That's all.
If you only made minor changes, then it is really too close. Yes the color a the same once.

I'm not the one to decide what happnes to this hat. Please contact an higher admin - preferable Wings.

Yes, Nathan asked me to defend him. And yes I listened to the other side too. Thing is: I have 2 different stories here. One side claims he never saw a sprite the other party claims the the file was leaked. Simply tried to understand what was going on.
You guys brought up evidence, which is why I advice you to contact an higher admin. It would be too much of coincidence to pick the same color and shape.

As bad as it is, and through years of witnessing similair situations;

1. Was your hat on the game before Nathan blatantly edited and got it uploaded to the server
2. Is the hat you made patented

If the answer for both of these is yes, you will probably get a solution in your favour.
If your answer for both is no, GraalOnline would not care If you made the original concept for the hat. Especially since the hat was edited and recoloured and not EXACTLY a completely stolen piece of artwork. As stated before in the thread - anything that's uploaded to GraalOnline is therefore owned by GraalOnline, if your version of the hat has not been uploaded or is not patented what does GraalOnline benefit from resolving this particular case of plagiarism?

(Too lazy to change GraalOnline, read Toonslab instead)

I'm confused as to why you were defending him at all when you literally have no need to and if anything it has made you seem very biased towards his non-existing innocence in this situation.

All the evidence points to Nathan having taken + edited Whippy his hat and the fact that he denies having seen it when the evidence is clearer than day just shows that he is not someone who you can trust by his word.
This also raises questions like whether any of his work is original.

Pretty accurate, it'll most likely go down like this.

No.
No.

Political correctness aside, isn't it just flip floppin' hilarious that the correct actions shouldn't be taken due to 'the book'!? It's a small game, and a small request.

It's like an episode of the Twilight Zone. Twiz is like that family on a road trip who are forced to drive into a middle-of-nowehere town to get fuel. It seems like a quaint town with nice people, but after the family drives away, the citizens let down their visage, and reveal a horde of blood-sucking martians from Mars!!! Ooooooooo eeeeeeee!!! *throws popcorn, pees pants*

^ Still waiting for Nathan to produce his movie screenshot. And I'm still waiting for someone to question him about bribing me (but of course, if he's already lying about stealing, I doubt he'd ever fess up to the bribe).

All this stupid crap aside, at the end of the day, I see this as a trivial 2-bit rip off in a 2-bit game. This post already has 3x more views than West's average player count xD Nobody is going to remember this ordeal, regardless if the hat stays or goes. For 5uicide 5quad, yes I would like to see the hat removed, so instead of continuing to blow hot air, I'll try to get Wings to help. Life's too short, and time is money.

Does West hire their admins from reform schools?

Suicide squad are noobs, don't remove the hat ill wear it to pk them

Funny how on zone editing hats happens all the time

he's not an admin

That actually surprises me.

Oh yeah iSpring how stupid of us! We should really stop working and going to school so we can have more time to practice a phone game!

Little does he know we encourage pkers and that personal bias shouldn't determine subsequent actions (although that's basically how west works, if they dont like you for whatever reason you'll be ostracised and given unfair treatment ]^: )

>is one of the only gangs not to circle jerk with the rest of the basing gangs, is constantly warred against by everyone, gang still has over 2000 hours, isn't shook.

Stuff you upload does not belong to Graal

Its just not neccessarily worth it to go into all the trouble of having justice in the end

As creator of something, you automatically have your copyright on it, you can then give it around as you please

The ToS only state that you agree to not upload copyrighted material onto the servers...

If someone stole your head that you made from scratch and only want yourself being able to use it and have proof of creatorship with wips and core files or sketches with appropriate last modified date, then you could technically sue whichever party violated your right

Before you take the word "sue" or "court" in your mouth, youll need to send a DMCA Take down notice to the host with proper evidence, if the host doesnt reply, you can go further

I don't think this is a big deal that would involve suing and stuff. Just talk to wings and show your evidence.. its really easy to just remove the hat from the game.

Pretty sure that hat has been about for least 5/6years and came around the time the halloween?/basic hoods was on classic so this hat in general is a edit/add-on in itself

Hello I talked with whippy and Nathan about this subject, I've decided to remove the hat from the game. Not really mad that the two hats look similar just that yes it does seem like SS got a second ganghat.
It will take a while to remove the hats but when they're removed you will rceive 500 gralats for the missing present, sorry this happen I'll take full blame

Wings,

I am genuinely sorry for the hassle over this thing. Everyone going on about legal matters, and I think it's pretty silly. However, I thank you for your time and attention to the situation, and thank you for deciding to remove the hat... Don't be sorry for it though. I feel like it was just one of those crazy situations, and there's no reason to take any blame for it... I just hope that in the future, everyone can learn from this situation, not attempt to duplicate someone else's work from the get-go, and save a bit of headache.

Fatal, believe me, this work is entirely my own design, which is based on a Suicide Squad Harley Quinn DC theme, and my childhood influences from Todd McFarlane's Spawn. To my knowledge, you will not find this hood anywhere else, and any designs similar to it will be purely coincidental... aside from this, if I were to flat-out copy a hat for Graal submission, you can bet that I'd be copying it from ANYWHERE else but Graal X,DD (plus why would I need to sketch concept art for a hat that I'm copying?)

off topic but why do you guys call yourself admins.

I know graal is off when it comes to using terms but an administrator is a title for high up people that have a lot of control over things and manage things.

A more proper term for your position would be moderator because as a gp you moderate things. As for other lower staff, they would simply be called, staff.

they've been called admins since the beginning of time my friend

In recent years it shifted towards more of a hierarchy system of terminology, with "staff" (often identified by a dev team guild tag) being entry level, and administrators being the leaders of each team

would be more suitable.

I know, but I don't know why, oh yeah because Graal terminology is off.

Interesting read. :)

And the most shocking part was the result


Seeing the shading on that original hat is refreshing. Kind of tired of seeing that nooby simplistic style classic has spread across the 4 graals.

It's good to see the right thing being done on Graal for once.

*logs on Era*
Oh wait, nevermind.

I don't know how long it takes for a hat to get removed but it has been a few days and its very much still in the game. I dont want this topic being swept under the rug until the hat is actually gone.

Aside from recently seeing no players wearing it, I have been told that Nathan's duplicate has been removed from the game. Wanna give a genuine 'Thank you' to Wings and anyone associated with the removal of the hat, and wish everyone a happy 2018.

Case closed, and peace out.

**** yea and **** nathan