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-   -   CERN has disproven ghosts/spirits? (https://www.graalians.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38387)

Eugeen 02-27-2017 12:38 PM
CERN has disproven ghosts/spirits?
 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-a7598026.html

In case you want to read it here:
Spoiler
Ghosts definitely aren't real because the biggest science experiment in the world would have found them by now, according to Brian Cox.

People have wondered for perhaps as long as life itself whether people's spirits can live on in the world once their body dies. But the TV professor says that they definitely don't, since CERN's Large Hadron Collider (LHC) would have stumbled across one.

The LHC is the biggest particle accelerator ever built. It is includes a huge ring of superconducting magnets and accelerators that fling particles around, sending them into each other at such speed that they can be used to understand some of the most fundamental properties of the universe. In doing so, scientists can find out how elementary particles interact and behave, and understand how they work to compose the world that we see around us.

The project has seen a number of things, identifying how particles decay and picking up hints that there could be new and unknown particles. But it hasn't yet found even a sliver of proof that there is anything that could make up a ghost.

If ghosts existed, then they would need to be made purely of energy, since by their very definition they can't be made of matter. But if they were made only of energy, they would quickly dissipate, because the second law of thermodynamics proposes that energy is always lost to heat.

The only way that they would be able to avoid that would be to have an incoming source of their own spooky energy. But there is nothing to account for that in the standard model of physics or anything we've seen in the particle accelerator.

"If we want some sort of pattern that carries information about our living cells to persist then we must specify precisely what medium carries that pattern and how it interacts with the matter particles out of which our bodies are made," he said in a special edition of his podcast The Infinite Monkey Cage that focused on the paranormal. "We must, in other words, invent an extension to the Standard Model of Particle Physics that has escaped detection at the Large Hadron Collider. That’s almost inconceivable at the energy scales typical of the particle interactions in our bodies."

Guest Neil deGrasse Tyson checked whether Professor Cox was really claiming that the particle accelerator had actually disproved the existence of supernatural spirits.

“If I understand what you just declared, you just asserted that CERN, the European Center for Nuclear Research, disproved the existence of ghosts,” he asked. "Yes," replied Professor Cox.


A bit about CERN:
CERN is a research company that has a machine called the Large Hadron Collider(LHC), this machine is the biggest particle accelerator ever built.
This machine can simply said shoot particles at eachother at really high speeds which can be used to understand the fundemental properties of the universe.

Summary of the interview:
So in an interview they've stated that ghosts are made up purely from energy because per definition they can't be made of matter.
The energy would dissapear fast though since energy is always lost to heat.
The only way a ghost could keep existing is to have an income of consistant energy yet there is nothing to account for that in normal physics and they haven't seen anything like that during all the research they've done.

“If I understand what you just declared, you just asserted that CERN, the European Center for Nuclear Research, disproved the existence of ghosts,” he asked. "Yes," replied Professor Cox.





Extra
So if they have proven that ghosts aren't real then that would also imply we are nothing after dying (since our spirit that supposedly moves on is non-existent).
So does this imply any aspect regarding the "after life" is non-existent? Has this disproven most of the ideals in religions?

I personally don't believe in ghosts anyways but I still find this interesting enough to talk about especially because this impacts religion directly which usually stirrs up quite a discussion

PigParty 02-27-2017 12:49 PM
Idk about you but my religion doesn't believe that my spirit wanders the earth after I die

Eugeen 02-27-2017 05:19 PM
Quote:
Posted by PigParty (Post 768013)
Idk about you but my religion doesn't believe that my spirit wanders the earth after I die
Some religions believe that a persons spirit moves on to the afterlife.
But CERN claims to have disproven the existence of paranormal beings like these.
Which means re-incarnation, moving to the afterlife and all those things aren't possible as far as we can know since there are no ghosts or spirits.


You have to keep in mind that this only disproves those things on a physical level though.
If you somehow end up in another dimension when you die then we obviously wouldn't be able to tell

Weeno 02-27-2017 06:20 PM
We must ask zara2 for the answers

Aftermath 02-28-2017 02:19 AM
http://www.hasthelargehadroncollider...eworldyet.com/


well, now i know what that is

Pr0m4N V.14 02-28-2017 04:03 AM
Ehhhh... What?

Sardon 02-28-2017 05:22 AM
You cannot disprove ghosts/spirits as we know little about what they are made of
It could be that spirits themselves are undetectable or aren't physicial beings at all.
With our limited technology such answers cannot be answered yet.

Most cultures around the world beleived in spirits of some kind even those that were isolated which leads me to beleive that they may have known something we didn't.

Sir 02-28-2017 08:11 AM
we'll see.

Fysez 02-28-2017 12:02 PM
Quote:
Posted by Sardon (Post 768208)
You cannot disprove ghosts/spirits as we know little about what they are made of
It could be that spirits themselves are undetectable or aren't physicial beings at all.
With our limited technology such answers cannot be answered yet.

Most cultures around the world beleived in spirits of some kind even those that were isolated which leads me to beleive that they may have known something we didn't.
Sure but what about all those TV shows with "I can feel the energy, it's cold in this one spot".

The hardest part to accept about ghosts being disproven is that I've heard many ghost stories, including my own

hosler 02-28-2017 01:31 PM
Quote:
Posted by Fysez (Post 768230)
Sure but what about all those TV shows with "I can feel the energy, it's cold in this one spot".

The hardest part to accept about ghosts being disproven is that I've heard many ghost stories, including my own
I usually hear my own stories too

Distorted_P2P 02-28-2017 01:32 PM
I feel like if there actually is any kind of spirits after life they wouldn't be made out of energy.

Fysez 02-28-2017 01:42 PM
Quote:
Posted by hosler (Post 768239)
I usually hear my own stories too
Technically you hear yourself every time you speak

0.5 02-28-2017 10:36 PM
Quote:
Posted by Eugeen (Post 768055)
Some religions believe that a persons spirit moves on to the afterlife.
But CERN claims to have disproven the existence of paranormal beings like these.
Which means re-incarnation, moving to the afterlife and all those things aren't possible as far as we can know since there are no ghosts or spirits.


You have to keep in mind that this only disproves those things on a physical level though.
If you somehow end up in another dimension when you die then we obviously wouldn't be able to tell


My religion no one can prove it dosn't exist and no one can prove it does

Thats why its belief and faith all personal I respect eachother opinion though intresting artictle though thanks for sharing !

Crono 03-01-2017 04:15 PM
never proven to begin with so...

Quote:
Posted by 0.5 (Post 768333)
My religion no one can prove it dosn't exist and no one can prove it does

Thats why its belief and faith all personal I respect eachother opinion though intresting artictle though thanks for sharing !
burden of proof lies on the person making the positive assertion, so if you come at me with horse**** you're not automatically on the same level (as far as arguments go) because "lul cnt be proven or disproven!!!!", you're infact losing.

Sig. 03-01-2017 04:41 PM
Quote:
Posted by Crono (Post 768489)

burden of proof lies on the person making the positive assertion
You're acting like this is a fact. It's neither maths nor physics, it's philosophy which isn't as black/white as you make it look like.

Crono 03-01-2017 04:52 PM
Quote:
Posted by Sig. (Post 768498)
You're acting like this is a fact. It's neither maths nor physics, it's philosophy which isn't as black/white as you make it look like.
sure, care to explain how im wrong?

Fysez 03-01-2017 05:10 PM
Quote:
Posted by Crono (Post 768489)
never proven to begin with so...



burden of proof lies on the person making the positive assertion, so if you come at me with horse**** you're not automatically on the same level (as far as arguments go) because "lul cnt be proven or disproven!!!!", you're infact losing.
Sheesh, I'm definitely not religious but you don't have to stomp on other people's beliefs.

Would rep-- if I could

0.5 03-01-2017 06:34 PM
Quote:
Posted by Crono (Post 768489)
never proven to begin with so...

.
I stated this in MY post and made sure too because this is a typical response, I can go into a million disscussion with people about my beilef but at the end of the day its up to me and me only which i choose to beileve in. Lemme break it down to you in simplest form a religion is a beilef. I'm not gonna argue with people like most in my religion do i'm not like that I'm not perfect I respect what other beileve and hope they can respect what i beileve period. I'm not loosing anything, in my religion The fight was already won and to add on to that there is no fight if its a beilef I strongly beileve in, nothing is going to change that. My religion dosn't change the fact I'm like anyone else on this earth.

PigParty 03-01-2017 07:20 PM
Quote:
Posted by Crono (Post 768489)
burden of proof lies on the person making the positive assertion, so if you come at me with horse**** you're not automatically on the same level (as far as arguments go) because "lul cnt be proven or disproven!!!!", you're infact losing.
no it doesn't. Science theorizes all kinds of things without any actual proof. That doesn't mean it's fact, but no one says it is to begin with. It's just a plausible explanation to something that cannot be proven - ever. Religion is the exact same thing. It's impossible to prove or disprove, and no one really cares to do that anyways. It's something you believe.

He was just saying that you can't disprove his religious beliefs and that this study actually didn't disprove it. It's not like he said you're wrong because his religion is fact, nor did he try to force his religion on anyone. Not too sure why you got irritated by his post.

Fysez 03-01-2017 10:43 PM
Quote:
Posted by PigParty (Post 768546)
Science theorizes all kinds of things.
Not only that but this is the literal definition of science
Quote:
the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Sig. 03-01-2017 11:40 PM
Quote:
Posted by Crono (Post 768503)
sure, care to explain how im wrong?
Not really saying that you're wrong - just pointing out that there is no "correct" answer. I could use the argumentum ad ignorantiam to say my claim is true because it hasn't been proved false

Hadi 03-01-2017 11:55 PM
Quote:
Posted by PigParty (Post 768546)
Religion is the exact same thing. It's impossible to prove or disprove, and no one really cares to do that anyways.
It is possible to disprove religions through finding faults in their scriptures. If the scriptures are corrupted then the religion has no foundation.

PigParty 03-02-2017 01:14 AM
Quote:
Posted by Hadi (Post 768620)
It is possible to disprove religions through finding faults in their scriptures. If the scriptures are corrupted then the religion has no foundation.
that still doesn't disprove religion because religion is a belief. I can't disprove someone's belief that humans evolved from monkeys, even though there are a ton of discrepancies and faults in that theory.

Sig. 03-02-2017 01:18 AM
Quote:
Posted by PigParty (Post 768646)
that still doesn't disprove religion because religion is a belief. I can't disprove someone's belief that humans evolved from monkeys, even though there are a ton of discrepancies and faults in that theory.
Evolution theory

And it doesn't really have a ton of faults, it basically says that within time and through isolation and mutation, species differ (or evolve) in order to survive. And this kind of applies, bacteria can adapt and grow a significant resistance against antibiotics e.g.

PigParty 03-02-2017 01:25 AM
Quote:
Posted by Sig. (Post 768647)
Evolution theory

And it doesn't really have a ton of faults, it basically says that within time and through isolation and mutation, species differ (or evolve) in order to survive. And this kind of applies, bacteria can adapt and grow a significant resistance against antibiotics e.g.
I said it was a theory in my post. That was literally the last word in my post.

Yes, there's lots of faults you can find. Why aren't monkeys evolving right now and becoming humans? Why do monkeys still exist at all if they needed to evolve into humans to survive? There's a lot of problems you can point out with that theory. It doesn't disprove it, though, which is exactly the point I was making to begin with.

Sig. 03-02-2017 01:42 AM
Quote:
Posted by PigParty (Post 768653)
I said it was a theory in my post. That was literally the last word in my post.

Yes, there's lots of faults you can find. Why aren't monkeys evolving right now and becoming humans? Why do monkeys still exist at all if they needed to evolve into humans to survive? There's a lot of problems you can point out with that theory. It doesn't disprove it, though, which is exactly the point I was making to begin with.
Not monkeys but hominidae which are actually only 3 kinds of monkeys besides the homo sapiens. If I recall correctly, the homo sapiens had its origin somewhere in Africa. You have to consider different circumstances:
- raft tectonics; where did Africa use to be throughout the evolution process?
- potential eating enemies; that perhaps run extinct?
- did some event happen to "activiate" the evolution?
They also could be spread around the whole world, location A could have less food avaible than location B so that only hominidae A would have to evolve to survive.

I'm not a fan of the evolution theory either but my bacteria example does support it.

Hadi 03-02-2017 02:02 AM
Quote:
Posted by PigParty (Post 768646)
that still doesn't disprove religion because religion is a belief. I can't disprove someone's belief that humans evolved from monkeys, even though there are a ton of discrepancies and faults in that theory.
Not saying all religions, just saying ones that have corrupted scriptures. For example a religion that says god is all knowing and makes no mistakes yet in their scripture there are clear and many contradictions and scientific errors. This goes against the fact that god is all knowledgable etc. That's how you disprove a religion. Not saying any religion in particular, just stating how a religion can be disproven.

Dos 03-02-2017 02:28 AM
Quote:
Posted by Hadi (Post 768673)
Not saying all religions, just saying ones that have corrupted scriptures. For example a religion that says god is all knowing and makes no mistakes yet in their scripture there are clear and many contradictions and scientific errors. This goes against the fact that god is all knowledgable etc. That's how you disprove a religion. Not saying any religion in particular, just stating how a religion can be disproven.
If you're referring to any scripture of any religion, it still can't be disproven though "science" comes into action. This is why I can't take everything in the Bible so literal, though most people forget that.

With Genesis, I can take the 6 days of creation and also combine it with the big bang theory. I'll be honest, rattling something up is the last thing I want. This is called an example folks.

Hadi 03-02-2017 02:40 AM
Quote:
Posted by Dos (Post 768678)
If you're referring to any scripture of any religion, it still can't be disproven though "science" comes into action. This is why I can't take everything in the Bible so literal, though most people forget that.

With Genesis, I can take the 6 days of creation and also combine it with the big bang theory. I'll be honest, rattling something up is the last thing I want. This is called an example folks.
I don't know why you're talking about science, I'm talking about contradictions.

Crono 03-02-2017 09:58 AM
pluffy created the universe haha u cant disprove me xD!!

Basil 03-02-2017 11:09 AM
i have supernatural powers in the real word and all people who have supernatural powers stare at me with lust and jealousy in their eyes because my supernatural powers are beyond legendary. i have seen many spirits and ghosts before (nessie, sadako, etc.) and i can tell you, with my supernatural courage, that ghosts exist. science is nothing compared to supernatural science! :^ /

Dos 03-02-2017 12:44 PM
Quote:
Posted by Hadi (Post 768681)
I don't know why you're talking about science, I'm talking about contradictions.
The point was basically that there are obviously contradictions, but you can't take it so seriously because a book wasn't sent from the sky. Plus some things aren't meant to be taken so literal. Sorry for confusion

Sig. 03-02-2017 02:15 PM
Quote:
Posted by Crono (Post 768752)
pluffy created the universe haha u cant disprove me xD!!
According to your own words you're supposed to prove it. It's cute how you put a troll with your xD once you don't know how to respond to something.

Though you're right - I can't disprove neither can you prove it.

Crono 03-02-2017 02:34 PM
Quote:
Posted by Sig. (Post 768785)
According to your own words you're supposed to prove it. It's cute how you put a troll with your xD once you don't know how to respond to something.
That's to indicate sarcasm, I'm using the same logic everyone else is to show how stupid it is. It's cute how you thought you were onto something but missed it completely. :)

Eugeen 03-02-2017 02:35 PM
Quote:
Posted by Sig. (Post 768785)
According to your own words you're supposed to prove it. It's cute how you put a troll with your xD once you don't know how to respond to something.

Though you're right - I can't disprove neither can you prove it.
He was clearly mocking the believers and not actually claiming a pluffy created the universe.
Context matters

Sig. 03-02-2017 03:44 PM
Quote:
Posted by Crono (Post 768788)
That's to indicate sarcasm, I'm using the same logic everyone else is to show how stupid it is. It's cute how you thought you were onto something but missed it completely. :)
Quote:
Posted by Crono (Post 768503)
sure, care to explain how im wrong?
Obviously.

Fysez 03-02-2017 03:47 PM
Nothing is more pathetic than mocking people who are going to positive seminars to have hope in their life

Crono 03-02-2017 03:52 PM
Quote:
Posted by Sig. (Post 768806)
Obviously.
the two posts arent even connected, what are you on about?

PigParty 03-02-2017 05:33 PM
Quote:
Posted by Crono (Post 768752)
pluffy created the universe haha u cant disprove me xD!!
actually, you've already been disproven. The flying spaghetti monster created the universe.

http://i.imgur.com/P8oMgKo.jpeg

In all seriousness though, anyone who thinks it's dumb to believe in a religion is ignorant. You don't have to believe in any religion but to think it's stupid that having faith in or believing in something that isn't 100% factually known to humankind is ignorant. People believe in the evolution theory. Is it dumb to believe in it just because it's not factually known to be true? Sounds a lot like the "you can't disprove it so haha" argument - "You can't prove it so haha". Get better things to do other than criticizing people for believing in something greater that we as humans don't understand and probably never will.

Sig. 03-02-2017 06:11 PM
Quote:
Posted by Crono (Post 768808)
the two posts arent even connected, what are you on about?
You asked me to prove how you're wrong but according to your logic you're supposed to prove you're right, no?

Crono 03-02-2017 06:24 PM
Quote:
Posted by Sig. (Post 768859)
You asked me to prove how you're wrong but according to your logic you're supposed to prove you're right, no?
my sarcastic post wasnt a response to you

Sig. 03-02-2017 07:08 PM
Quote:
Posted by Crono (Post 768866)
my sarcastic post wasnt a response to you
Welp, who are we anyways to question someones beliefs (as long as we don't get harmed by it)

Bones 03-02-2017 10:37 PM
Quote:
Posted by Hadi (Post 768620)
It is possible to disprove religions through finding faults in their scriptures. If the scriptures are corrupted then the religion has no foundation.
Wow. I love you LOL

Also the fact religions keep having to collectively change themselves to adapt to social advancements is another big thing (i.e. churches letting gay people through their doors now, saying they can go to heaven too).

What ever happened to "God's word is law - forever!"?. Also was God wrong back in the old days? Can a god be wrong?

Eugeen 03-02-2017 10:43 PM
Quote:
Posted by PigParty (Post 768840)
actually, you've already been disproven. The flying spaghetti monster created the universe.

http://i.imgur.com/P8oMgKo.jpeg
Holy sh*t where did you get that footage? How has NASA not removed this yet?!
Tbh though, that image reminds me of this


Anyways about the religion topic.
In my opinion you should be free to believe what you want and how you want to live your life.

Bones 03-02-2017 10:44 PM
Quote:
Posted by PigParty (Post 768840)
actually, you've already been disproven. The flying spaghetti monster created the universe.

http://i.imgur.com/P8oMgKo.jpeg

In all seriousness though, anyone who thinks it's dumb to believe in a religion is ignorant. You don't have to believe in any religion but to think it's stupid that having faith in or believing in something that isn't 100% factually known to humankind is ignorant. People believe in the evolution theory. Is it dumb to believe in it just because it's not factually known to be true? Sounds a lot like the "you can't disprove it so haha" argument - "You can't prove it so haha". Get better things to do other than criticizing people for believing in something greater that we as humans don't understand and probably never will.
You can actually sit and provide a consistent base of evidence for the evolution theory. This is unlike religion.

PigParty 03-03-2017 12:35 AM
Quote:
Posted by Bones (Post 768967)
Also the fact religions keep having to collectively change themselves to adapt to social advancements is another big thing (i.e. churches letting gay people through their doors now, saying they can go to heaven too).

What ever happened to "God's word is law - forever!"?. Also was God wrong back in the old days? Can a god be wrong?
That has nothing to do with God. That's solely human error. Humans are intolerant of others. Society has continually become more tolerant, however, and the people of the church adapt with society. Nothing in the Bible says gay people are banished from Heaven for all eternity. God decides who goes to Heaven and his grace and forgiveness is for him to give. Christians don't have a clue who really gets into Heaven or not. God could forgive everyone and let them in if he wanted to. We don't know. Christians don't change their beliefs, just their tolerance towards them.

Quote:
Posted by Bones (Post 768971)
You can actually sit and provide a consistent base of evidence for the evolution theory. This is unlike religion.
plausible explanations are not "evidence"

Sig. 03-03-2017 12:41 AM
Quote:
Posted by Bones (Post 768967)
Wow. I love you LOL

Also the fact religions keep having to collectively change themselves to adapt to social advancements is another big thing (i.e. churches letting gay people through their doors now, saying they can go to heaven too).

What ever happened to "God's word is law - forever!"?. Also was God wrong back in the old days? Can a god be wrong?
You're reflecting a religion by action from human beings. That's the issue. Sometimes a religion has to adapt - by deducting their 'rules' only - and not by making them more appealing or socially acceptable. I didn't hear about a church for gay people though France has a mosque for gay muslim. Just because one human being interpretes it in a (wrong) way you can't say it's basically the whole religion. Otherwise the IS would represent the whole Islam which is bs either.

Bones 03-03-2017 01:21 AM
Quote:
Posted by Sig. (Post 768995)
You're reflecting a religion by action from human beings. That's the issue. Sometimes a religion has to adapt - by deducting their 'rules' only - and not by making them more appealing or socially acceptable. I didn't hear about a church for gay people though France has a mosque for gay muslim. Just because one human being interpretes it in a (wrong) way you can't say it's basically the whole religion. Otherwise the IS would represent the whole Islam which is bs either.
I don't understand what this message is supposed to be other than an SJW rant.

Christianity has a major history of preaching against gays, and wasn't even steadfast in these divine teachings about gays being abominations when society became more liberal, and attendance (thus, their money) began to drop. The Bible is pretty clear on "God's stance" towards gays, as well.

This is one of many examples where religion has totally flip-flopped in a pragmatic way, proving that there is no divine inspiration to their beliefs. It's literally just humans, and that offers no credence to the idea that there is a supernatural power.

You can at least concede that it looks ridiculous when a religion has been preaching the same thing for at least centuries, and then has to totally turn it's back on it.

PigParty 03-03-2017 02:08 AM
Quote:
Posted by Bones (Post 769009)
I don't understand what this message is supposed to be other than an SJW rant.

Christianity has a major history of preaching against gays, and wasn't even steadfast in these divine teachings about gays being abominations when society became more liberal, and attendance (thus, their money) began to drop. The Bible is pretty clear on "God's stance" towards gays, as well.

This is one of many examples where religion has totally flip-flopped in a pragmatic way, proving that there is no divine inspiration to their beliefs. It's literally just humans, and that offers no credence to the idea that there is a supernatural power.

You can at least concede that it looks ridiculous when a religion has been preaching the same thing for at least centuries, and then has to totally turn it's back on it.
SJW rant just because he had an opposing viewpoint in a discussion with you? Come on now. You're worse than SJWs if you act like that in what was a decent discussion. Don't resort to personal attacks out of no where. It just makes you look bad.

The Bible says that it is sin to be gay. It also says that it's a sin to think bad about another person. It also says that all sin is equal and that thinking bad about someone is just as bad as murder. It's the humans that can't see it that way. We as humans think murder is much worse than thinking bad about someone. Christians believe abortion is sin, yet the Pope just said churches can let people who had abortions back into the church. They didn't say that abortion is now OK. They just admitted its not their job to judge others for their sins.

A religion doesn't preach anything. The people of the religion do. Humans are faulty and wrong. No religious person follows their religion and its expectations completely. That's impossible. If you knew about religions instead of just critiquing them, you would know that. The Pope didn't change the Bible when he said divorced people can be let into the church. The Pope simply changed their practices that the humans created.

The SCOTUS has reversed its decisions on cases, but in doing so, they say they had interpreted the Constituion wrong. They don't change the Constituion in the process. Humans are wrong and sinful. Humans make mistakes. These "changes" you ignorantly cite are changes in practices that humans created themselves.

Quote:
Posted by Bones (Post 768971)
You can actually sit and provide a consistent base of evidence for the evolution theory. This is unlike religion.
Science thought people evolved from monkeys but now some scientists say we evolved from tadpoles or even bacteria. Flip-flopping?!?! Must be a bogus theory!

Fysez 03-03-2017 12:27 PM
I don't believe in God, but I do believe in the idea of him.
Psychologically, it is healthy for people to look toward a higher being, and the social gatherings of churches keeps people active and making relationships in a group of people they share a common belief with.


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