Banned from Uploading Indefinitely?
 

Hello,

I am a GFX artist and about a year ago I took a whack at making shields for the first time. I uploaded my lil' experiment and got rejected for ambiguous reasons, and then again with the same ambiguous message even after making changes to the file and renaming it. Finally, I find that I had gotten banned from uploading. I sent in a support ticket to Toonslab a year ago, and thought my ban was temporary. Unfortunately that didn't seem to be the case when I attempted to upload something a couple months ago. Even though I have sent in other tickets in June and the beginning of July, I'm still banned. I asked the admins about it but they either didn't know or referred me to Toonslab (which referred me to Classic Support.)

Who else has been upload banned for eternity? Is there any way I can get back to uploading?

you could make a new account, Ma'am/sir.

you could go back in time and listen to the "do not resubmit this" message

I am also upload banned, for no reason

The submissions system is pretty much without any recourse except to make minor changes and then re-submit even when it gives you that 'we're gonna ban u forevar' warning... granted you don't want to waste your efforts on whatever graphics you made.

I once got mad, and uploaded a "spam" head probably 20+ times through someone's email. Ended up getting banned for a week, and was also banned from uploading. I asked xor to unban me, took 3 months, I believe. I don't think the support website existed at the time.

I think that if you keep asking over and over, they won't unban you. They should really put a timer for those things.

Also, I believe that they ban your ip, and not just one account.

Can't really say much, since I have no idea what your "lil experiment" looks like. If it's been a year, then who knows what you tried to upload.

You were banned for resubmitting copyrighted graphics, don't lie.

Umm no, I've never even submitted anything copyrighted so stop making assumptions about me.

They don't hand those bans out for no reason either.

Actually, I have been falsely banned before this. Though it was lifted soon after.

Honestly, toonslab has never worked for anyone. If you're banned from something, there's just nothing you can do.

Upload bans aren't needed. Isn't hurting the game nor the players. Make guidelines more clearer when uploading.

"Respect copyrights and only upload graphics that you have made yourself or that you are authorized to use. Any concepts that are taken from television shows, video games or any other forms of media will not be accepted. Works that are inspired by such material are only accepted under some circumstances. It is therefore encouraged that you design original ideas for your graphics to avoid any issues that may arise."

I don't see how trying to upload a head resembling an overwatch character is not against said obvious rules. Someone complained about a few weeks ago, and made a thread that was deleted.
https://img.fireden.net/v/image/1464...4196269889.png

Pretty sure they ban people from uploading, because they are sending files to the server, which get rejected several times, and they want to keep sending the same file.

Would you rather keep having to reject the same file over and over, or just not have to deal with it by removing the players' ability to upload?

I'm assuming that photo of mei is aimed at me. Im going to let it be known once more that I was banned before I even made the game inspired head. Because it is a generic girl head with a bun, there is literally no possible way it could be copyrighted.

I was also upload banned for a short period for re-submitting an indexed body - which had a background on it. The background is required to be attached to the file - but doesn't show up in game (Dusty's old index method)

While I agree with Bryan, I can see your point. The only flaw with the system is that there doesn't seem to be a way to get unbanned. In fact, the system goes from 0 to 100 real quick. "Don't resubmit this" (I waited around 20 min to resubmit) turns into an indefinite ban, at least in my case. Sure, it's annoying to have a player upload something a bunch of times, but I feel on the grand scale of annoying-ness, having an indefinite upload ban is worse.

Permanent bans aren't necessary. Preferably would make it 24-48 hours of restriction on uploads. If the file is being uploaded repeatedly, openly explain why it's being denied and a solution to fix it. You can't just simply resort to never giving the player the option to upload a customized (head, body, sword, or shield).

I've never been a gp on upload duty, but I think it's common sense that you aren't the only person trying to upload a file. They probably want to accept as many uploads as possible, so people can get their customs fast. I don't think they have to explain every little detail as to why a yoshi head can't be uploaded.

If it's not that, then they usually tell you why. "File size is too big/small", "Transparency issues"...
Most people don't know how to fix their "solid black/white" issue. Maybe staff should just make a guide relating to the reasons why they don't accept a file.

Not sure if you've uploaded heads similar to your graphics site, but it seems like some of your head files included hats such as the glasses(the Mei head), bows(Pikachu/Demon Girl edits), headbands(pink haired girl) & horn/ears(4th of July and etc..). Since Classic is pretty strict on heads with hats, resubmitting files with minor things like that, could've caused your upload ban.

I actually haven't lol, but there are people on classic with heads i'be made. Who've had no issues whatsoever uploading.

The issue is you have zero instruction as to what is wrong with the graphic and/or how to fix it from a human being - instead just a stock message (sometimes incorrectly applied) that often suggests not re-submitting your work.

AND BTW... how is intellectual property of a 3d character a copyright infringement issue when you draw a graphic character in a 2d, pixelated format that sort of resembles the original and then present it in a free-to-play environment with no intention of marketing or making money on the 2d sprite?

Because Graal makes money. The companies won't go after you... they'll go after ToonsLab. Anything related to their original content belongs to them, no matter the dimension. They could care less if only one person bought it for $10, or free by farming. The fact that it's in the game will give companies every intention to take money from TL.

Thissss^^^^^ (both points)

Do you really think they'd go for some obscure game like Graal over fan art?

That's not really the point. It's in a company likes Toonslab's best interests to not even open themselves up to something like that.

This really isn't that hard, guys.

With people like you spending thousands on this crappy game, why not?

No, it is that hard, because admins themselves have contradicted this rule:

"Any concepts that are taken from television shows, video games or any other forms of media will not be accepted. "

by adding inspired content on a number of occasions. Players really shouldn't be blamed or banned when they try to do the same. Obviously taking things pixel for pixel is a problem, but when it's created from scratch and only bares resemblance I don't see the argument

This is also an amazing point.

I'm just wondering why the admins don't know how to resolve this issue because every single one I talked to doesn't have a clue. Why would you have a ban button that you could never turn off?

Unlike the controversy Ivy is facing, I can say with confidence that the shield I uploaded wasn't copyright and didn't have any coloring issues because I've been uploading since I first started the game. I attempted to upload it only three times with time in between uploading, I wasn't spamming the system.

I can also say with confidence that whatever I uploaded before being banned, or really ever on Classic was NOT copyright in any way, shape, or form.

There are the rules. Things slip through; it happens. Here's what the playerbase needs to get into their heads: Uploading customs is a privilige and whether you like it or not you have to follow the rules and the moderators (who sometimes make mistakes. NEWSFLASH: they're people too). If you believe that you were wrongfully banned, send in a ticket.

I sent in a ticket a year ago :,) here we are

But I wasn't talking about uploads that slip through. There is admin created content (such as hats) in the game that are blatant references to television shows and other video games. How can you blame players for attempting to do the same thing?

It's awful that players could actually get permanently banned from uploading when they are seemingly following in the example of the admins. If they don't want confusion with the rules then they should follow them exactly as every ordinary player has to.

Some one woke up on the wrong side of the bed.


Two possible solutions (instead of more hate) -

1.) Ditch the whole submission system. Scrap tf out of it. Make admins only allowed to upload shield/sword graphics from now on and make a quota of content they have to release in a month to keep up interest.


2.) Hire some friggin staff from the community of avid artists to go through the submissions and train them to hone their skills on what is 'acceptable' or not. Give reasons. Be very precise. Have a gold standard. Stop the monkey business of "oh its so hard" vs "you people are so dumb."


3.) (BONUS) Outline exactly what is allowed instead of relying on a single page written literally years ago regarding submissions guidelines. Show examples. Write a guide. Make it detailed. Give specific illustrations of what is not allowed AND WHY.

4.) (EVEN MORE BONUS) Stop with the pre-written single-button responses. This seems to be the biggest issue with the whole submission process - I know that it seems to streamline the function for administration by not having to write out explanations, but THREADS LIKE THIS show that the players are not able to upload in the fashion that is required in order to be acceptable and the explanations they are getting as to why their uploads are not acceptable just aren't detailed enough. Take out the stock responses - refer them to a page in the aforementioned guide (see point 3) to at least give a hint as to why their submissions are being denied. This will save time for players and the administration folks.

Both GPs and GATs review uploads already, hiring avid artists to do them is pretty redundant especially when all that will happen is that they will go through the same process as us and increase the chances of someone approving an upload for a friend or themselves that should not be approved. Being able to specify the problem with the upload submitted is a great idea, however, this is going to take up a lot of time especially if it happens to be only one person online doing all of them. There are already many players complaining about their upload is taking too long to be reviewed despite only waiting an hour, not sure they would appreciate the process taking even longer. It's pretty easy to spot if an upload breaks any rules other than the occasional one that can be rather odd. There will be certain occasions where we all differ in opinion and we find certain things acceptable/unacceptable. This is something that can easily be cleared up.

I've heard about quite a few people who appealed their upload ban and it was removed although it may be the minority. Getting unbanned is probably one of the things that aren't very definite at the moment from what i've seen

After thinking about it, I can say a few things regarding the general conversation here.

1. The "Inspired" Vs. "Ripped off" argument will not be solved with any change of the guide lines. It is a judgement call. Also, calling out the staff for their use of copyrighted works won't solve anything, either.

2. You can't just "hire better staff" or "train them better' it doesn't work like that. From what I've noticed the most active players don't want to be staff anyways. Do you really believe it's feasible to make someone who applied for a volunteer position go through 10-20 hours of training? Who would train them anyways? It takes up time that, as shown by the upload wait times, staff don't have.

3. Asking staff to write detailed descriptions is not a viable solution. I assume that there are probably 30 uploads an hour(maybe more, maybe less, I have never been staff so I don't know). If you add 2 more minutes to every upload the adminisator has to review, he/she will not be able to keep up, or get any other work done. The process of reviewing an upload must be streamlined. It cannot work in any other fashion.

4. They won't ever ditch the uploads system. First of all the players of today would never accept it, and it also who take away the games money maker(not that they are selfish, but I am sure it's a decision that those who finance the game wouldn't approve of).

5. The only solution I have seen is creating a guide online that players may reference as to why their graphic is being denied. With articles such as "Your Background is Visible", "Your Graphic is too small", etc. The articles should be simple, but offer insight Into why this is happening to you and how you can fix it. Then adminisators could reference articles in their rejections, and hope the player will read them and be able to fix the issue. However, there are issues with this as well.

A. Uploads can be broken in unique ways, and I would for see much complaining of "the guides fix didn't work for me!" And stuff along those lines.

B. To have this be professional it would need to be packaged into a uploading website, which would take time. At least I feel that would be required.

C. With the hat quotas and the pressure on the GAT staff, I don't know if they would have the time to make a comprehensive upload guide. However, that should not be used as an excuse, either.

This is the only solution I can see right now.

I sent in a ticket, got a reply, I replied, they unbanned me from uploading. Took 1-2 weeks.

No, it won't. We've already had this discussion. Players will be waiting days to get their upload. Most players don't care about the explanation, as evidenced by the upload bans. (Wow, do not resubmit? Better spam it.)

Do you want an explanation of why your upload is being denied? Sure, I'll give you one. Out of tens of thousands (I wish this was an exaggeration) of personal uploads I've gone through, maybe ten people ask me why their upload was denied.

I said this a ton in the other thread, and I'll say it again: you can message me about an upload and I'll try and work through it with you or at least explain what's wrong.

What rules aren't on http://classicupload.graalonline.com/ are well known in the community, the main one being about doll bodies (which is actually half covered by what is on there, it says "no small or invisible graphics").

As it stands, the system is NOT the problem. Do you really mean to tell me that the guy sending sprites ripped directly from Undertale as shields was somehow left blind-sighted because "Copyright Infringement: Do not resubmit" was too vague, especially after he received it more than 10 times?

Tbh, when I was admin for 2 months I always sent selfmade pm's of what was wrong with peoples uploads if I denied them lol
It's not that big of a deal to do

The world needs more people like you <3

I got a warning back then like 2015? then I ask the admin Xor* is it really true? cause the warning I got was a PMessage. Then he told me yes but it is just a warning.

If there's no explanation as to what was 'wrong' with the submission, I for one would personally make my best guess, do a quick edit, and re-send it to see if it was a small or more obvious error. Not spam. Lack of information provided.

If there were some kind of indication of which admin was online and/or who was currently receiving/reviewing submissions, I can't speak for others but I would probably attempt to discuss a concept prior to even starting the design. The answers I do get from known admins are usually vague and sometimes not entirely accurate... compared to what others say.

Shout this from the mountains. When you're online.

I literally had five different responses for the exact same upload when it was suggested that I upload 'a few hours later when some one else was reviewing submissions.' Even the admins don't all know the rules or agree on them.

We're your customers. We're saying it's a problem.

I don't think there are a ton of available graphics that are ripped from copyrighted sources for people to upload. If graphic artists are making their inspired works too obvious, then we need to start there and make it clear that none of their work will be of use to the game.

Also, I agree that the system should be reworked but since it doesn't sound like that isn't going to happen, then maybe make a small adjustment and get rid of permanent bans or put a PERSON in charge of graphics ban appeals.

Let Coco or Leah or GFX admins solely review the uploads. GP's lack the artistic skill.

I'm on every day at a time that runs me into an average of 150 personal uploads just on login. While this would be ideal, it's not practical and I have other things I need to be doing. Most of them are well covered by the basics, fortunately.

1) No, that's not spam. Glad we agree on that. Most people just send the same thing without any changes even if it's something simple, even then, they aren't all going to be upload banned unless it is REALLY disruptive or they are copyrighted.

2) In general, the denials are pretty consistent. If something slips through and it shouldn't have been approved, it will be refunded and, similar to above, you won't be upload banned unless you've done it a lot with copyrighted stuff or you are a very, very frequent offender.

3) 3-4 PM EST is usually when I get on if anyone is curious. If you want to talk to me about an upload, message me on here or in-game and we can try to work out a time.

4) Does it happen? Yeah, but I wouldn't say it's all that often. You seem to have had a particularly bad experience, which might be because of the style of your graphics, and I'm sorry it has turned out this way.

5) I'd like to see a server-wide survey, going by my experience I don't think many people have an issue with it. But hey, who knows.

People rip them or remake them pixel for pixel. It's very clear that copyrighted content is not allowed. If the rules aren't enough on the website, being denied several times or refunded several times should really get the message across.

Real people check the appeals.

As much as I'd love to push the work to them, I think GPs are more than qualified for uploading. All they're doing is checking the upload against the rules.

My experience is that non-staff who make their own graphics have issue with the system. The majority of players in a 'server-wide' survey would not know what they're talking about, as they haven't made graphics. Even if you have hundreds of uploads a day, it does not indicate that anywhere near a majority is busily making shields.

Staff who have graphics experience seem to upload whatever they want without consequence. I would like the same freedom to an extent - case in point...

Attachment 22139

There's no active waterfall furniture for us to use in the game. I made my own shield (drew on in-game colors to match with water and matched the graphic style in a home-made animation) and it was denied. What to do?

What about people in my situation who have never been refunded and only resubmitted two or three times, with time in between submissions and changes to the file and file name, and with no copyright issues? That's the whole reason I made this post. That's why I'm saying we need to do away with the permanent bans.

Also, I meant to convey we should have an admin in charge of graphics ban appeals. Because obviously there isn't one, and if there was, thanks for telling me when I asked you for help.

This happened to me but mine was approved before I was banned, because there was nothing wrong with the file to begin with so I submitted it in several colors

Should have temporary bans. Zone just has a 48 hour ban and it works fine. I found a lot of times people would resuvmit files because they didn't know what was wrong, so they would change something and hope that fixed it, or they didn't know if what they did fixed it, or they were impatient and submitted it multiple times right away. Anyways, a temporary ban would work most of the time.

It isn't possible to have only coco and graphic staff reviewing uploads. Reasons are simple:
1. players will have to wait even longer than they do now
2. they don't spend as much time online as GPs
3. in the end, all views will differ in one way or another on whether an upload should be approved or not

Upload bans aren't permanent.
As for some kind of indication of staff online, this has been brought up many times and why there won't be one due to spam and people using it to their advantage to break the rules when none are on

http://www.graalians.com/forums/atta...1&d=1470604802

Never had this issue before (uploading from iPhone), someone help.


This is the pic: