Graalians

Graalians (https://www.graalians.com/forums/index.php)
-   GraalOnline Classic (https://www.graalians.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12)
-   -   New baddy killing System (https://www.graalians.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35861)

Cxll 06-01-2016 05:39 PM
New baddy killing System
 
Hey why was baddy killing point system changed ? Now it's like 5 bks to get a point :o

Vic 06-01-2016 05:43 PM
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Thallen 06-01-2016 05:51 PM
Probably was changed just so that the point values aren't so outrageous, it looked weird seeing people with MILLIONS of points compared to sparring...

Aguzo 06-01-2016 08:38 PM
I don't like not knowing how many points each baddy gives. Killed 2-3 lizardons to raise my points by 1.

They should change it. Gotta understand that the baddy killers last season no-lifed a lot more than the sparrers and pkers. So Double the current point system should be understandable, if they were to have 120k points or something, compared to 60k kills and spar points.

If not, then they should have some sort of chart in a library to show how many points each baddy gives (0.8, 0.5, 0.1, etc)

Cxll 06-01-2016 08:40 PM
Quote:
Posted by fp4 (Post 710165)
No, the point values are just visually squished.

1 point is now equal to what previously was 70 points, we just don't display the decimals.
They're fine now

Aguzo 06-01-2016 08:40 PM
Quote:
Posted by Call27 (Post 710227)
they're* fine now
Oh okay, thanks. I guess that means that the crabs are still the easiest points.

Cxll 06-01-2016 08:49 PM
crabs / Spiders r both really easy :)

Senpai Enigma 06-01-2016 09:23 PM
i feel like all these changes are dumb but yet again i dont play classic anymore

4-Lom 06-02-2016 02:52 PM
Seems counter-intuitive. Or maybe it's just not expressed plainly.
Fighting harder enemies should equal more points... but it doesn't seem to be scaled with the difficulty of the enemies.

Vendetta 06-02-2016 03:24 PM
Quote:
Posted by 4-Lom (Post 710508)
Seems counter-intuitive. Or maybe it's just not expressed plainly.
Fighting harder enemies should equal more points... but it doesn't seem to be scaled with the difficulty of the enemies.
Quote:
Posted by fp4 (Post 710165)
No, the point values are just visually squished.

1 point is now equal to what previously was 70 points, we just don't display the decimals.

...

Bryan* 06-02-2016 03:59 PM
Just feels like you gotta kill more just to gain a single point.

Dusty 06-02-2016 04:49 PM
Quote:
Posted by Bryan* (Post 710532)
Just feels like you gotta kill more just to gain a single point.
Ya, that's what happens when the points are squished. You're still getting the same amount, and thus putting in the same amount of effort. It's like squishing down a tall burger so you can fit it in your mounth--same amount of beef and buns, but now conveniently sized for consumption.

Aguzo 06-02-2016 07:07 PM
Quote:
Posted by Dusty (Post 710542)
It's like squishing down a tall burger so you can fit it in your mounth--same amount of beef and buns, but now conveniently sized for consumption.
Minus the grease you squished out.

Reemas 06-02-2016 07:10 PM
Quote:
Posted by Aguzo (Post 710602)
Minus the grease you squished out.

He used a shrink ray gun, so the grease stayed.

Thallen 06-02-2016 07:18 PM
BK points aren't quite adding up cleanly around the same number of spar points/PKs, but maybe it's because people aren't BKing as actively, not sure

Aguzo 06-02-2016 07:26 PM
Quote:
Posted by Thallen (Post 710609)
BK points aren't quite adding up cleanly around the same number of spar points/PKs, but maybe it's because people aren't BKing as actively, not sure
They made it stack up against 60k pks and spar points, which is ridiculous, since the top 2-3 bkers just no-lifed it way more than the top pker and baddy killers.

Points should give 50-100% more than what they are now, and then it won't feel as slow.

Droid 06-02-2016 08:18 PM
RIP Deadwood Bat Caves

Reemas 06-02-2016 08:30 PM
Quote:
Posted by Droid (Post 710641)
RIP Deadwood Bat Caves

Now they're just in railroad caves.

Thallen 06-04-2016 10:26 PM
Quote:
Posted by Aguzo (Post 710618)
Points should give 50-100% more than what they are now, and then it won't feel as slow.
Yeah, IDK... For consistency, I feel like the points gained by your guild in the upcoming guild points system should be the exact same as the points you gain on the leaderboards... Otherwise, "points" as a term becomes really confusing.

Today's #1 BKer, after 11 hours, has 281 points after killing 842 spiders... That's compared to today's top 3 PKers having 2305, 1866, 1460. PKing is way easier over the summer while BKing is harder, but 281 points vs. 2305 "points" just seems off. Same when you compare it to sparring, where today's top 3 are 1292, 736, 472. Hopefully it'll all be figured out properly and both the individual leaderboards and guild points can use the same values.

Like I said though, it could just be because it's summer... More people online means that sparring and BKing should be slower, while PKing should be faster. I feel like BKing shouldn't be as rewarding as sparring or PKing, but hopefully they won't get completely shafted when it comes to guild points contribution. Interesting how the playercount has the potential to dictate the most rewarding activity for guilds though.

It's always been like that to some extent anyway, at least for towering, PKing, and BKing. You can get an edge while towering by structuring your guild to hold towers while Americans are at school, or overnight US hours... You can get optimal PKs over the summer or weekends... You can get the most BKs during low playercount hours, etc.

Aguzo 06-05-2016 12:32 AM
Quote:
Posted by Thallen (Post 711307)
Spoiler
Yeah, IDK... For consistency, I feel like the points gained by your guild in the upcoming guild points system should be the exact same as the points you gain on the leaderboards... Otherwise, "points" as a term becomes really confusing.

Today's #1 BKer, after 11 hours, has 281 points after killing 842 spiders... That's compared to today's top 3 PKers having 2305, 1866, 1460. PKing is way easier over the summer while BKing is harder, but 281 points vs. 2305 "points" just seems off. Same when you compare it to sparring, where today's top 3 are 1292, 736, 472. Hopefully it'll all be figured out properly and both the individual leaderboards and guild points can use the same values.

Like I said though, it could just be because it's summer... More people online means that sparring and BKing should be slower, while PKing should be faster. I feel like BKing shouldn't be as rewarding as sparring or PKing, but hopefully they won't get completely shafted when it comes to guild points contribution. Interesting how the playercount has the potential to dictate the most rewarding activity for guilds though.

It's always been like that to some extent anyway, at least for towering, PKing, and BKing. You can get an edge while towering by structuring your guild to hold towers while Americans are at school, or overnight US hours... You can get optimal PKs over the summer or weekends... You can get the most BKs during low playercount hours, etc.
Gonna have to wait and see what the guild update brings, but I do think all activities should be based on points as well. The drop on the baddy points was way too much. The top bkers were bking for hours every single day, compared to sparrers and pkers. If anything they should have ended with 120k or 240k. May seem like a lot, but that's how much they were playing compared to sparrers and pkers.

Rufus 06-05-2016 02:00 AM
There's probably some math that can balance baddy points correctly (where they are within the same kind of range as PK and spar for daily, weekly, monthly and seasonally) I just wouldn't know what that is to suggest it. Having 100x the amount of points as PKing, sparring and guild sparring looked dumb though.

Zetectic 06-05-2016 02:03 AM
why not just turn back into 1 baddy kill = 1 point?
since they don't over spawn. it also takes times to kill them.

Thallen 06-05-2016 02:37 AM
Quote:
Posted by Zetectic (Post 711385)
why not just turn back into 1 baddy kill = 1 point?
since they don't over spawn. it also takes times to kill them.
The points system is objectively better. I think it dynamically adjusts so that point equivalents are equal across all baddies based on the time it takes to kill each baddy... So, killing any baddy is balanced and going to give you a fair amount of points in respect to how much time it takes to kill it. It's just that the values look a little weird compared to others. They were way too high before and feel too low now.

I think that if the goal is to get all daily/weekly/monthly/seasonal points across sparring, PKing, and BKing leaderboards to be around the same range then that's going to be really tough, especially now during this three-month period when the numbers are going to be way different than they would be in the other nine months of the year due to kids being out of school. Anyway, hope it gets figured out.

Aguzo 06-05-2016 02:40 AM
Quote:
Posted by Rufus (Post 711384)
There's probably some math that can balance baddy points correctly (where they are within the same kind of range as PK and spar for daily, weekly, monthly and seasonally) I just wouldn't know what that is to suggest it. Having 100x the amount of points as PKing, sparring and guild sparring looked dumb though.
The top baddy killer was left at 60k points, from 6bill? Yeah, have been at least 120k. Someone based their assumptions (of how much points should be dropped) on 1 person who played waaaaaay more than the top people on pk and spar leaderboards.

At least double of what the bk points are now would be fine. When you need to get 2-3 kills (off of crabs) for just one point, it makes it feel super slow. I really liked the points last season, since it made it feel like exp. Should do something similar with pk board. Making it more skill based.

Vladamir Blackthorne 06-05-2016 02:53 AM
Speaking of the whole leaderboards thing, uh...

We need a tier/league/etc. Kind of system implemented. Lower tiered players don't get as good of rewards but they would be able to compete on a more level playing field.

Lockdown 06-05-2016 03:07 AM
Quote:
Posted by Rufus (Post 711384)
There's probably some math that can balance baddy points correctly (where they are within the same kind of range as PK and spar for daily, weekly, monthly and seasonally) I just wouldn't know what that is to suggest it. Having 100x the amount of points as PKing, sparring and guild sparring looked dumb though.
Maybe a guess and check type of method would be best until they can find an obvious 'equation' that works best with the other leaderboards.

Thallen 06-05-2016 03:14 AM
Quote:
Posted by Lockdown (Post 711410)
Maybe a guess and check type of method would be best until they can find an obvious 'equation' that works best with the other leaderboards.
Again though, even that much is hard to do right now because over the summer it becomes much harder to get spar wins and BKs and much easier to get PKs... Then for the other nine months, PKs become harder to get and BKs and spar wins become easier to get. I don't think there's ever going to be some perfect balance just because of that.

BK point values were just adjusted again. #1 went from 2626 to 3677. I think it's at a decent spot right now. Honestly though, you won't be able to accurately judge it until we've had three months of summer vs. three months of any other season.

Lockdown 06-05-2016 03:27 AM
Wait but why would seasons effect Spars, BKs, or PKs?

Thallen 06-05-2016 03:32 AM
Quote:
Posted by Lockdown (Post 711414)
Wait but why would seasons effect Spars, BKs, or PKs?
As there's a higher playercount, there's a large increase in tower activity and mob PKing. There's just more people to openly PK all over the map.
For sparring, queues are longer and the server is laggier. This leads to less and longer spars for each individual player.
For BKers, there are a limited number of baddies that are spawned at any given time. A higher playercount means more people competing for these baddies.

That's why summer is beneficial to PKing, whereas the other nine months are better towards sparring and BKing. I don't think it's a problem, it's just the way the game works due to the nature of those stats.

4-Lom 06-05-2016 04:24 AM
Quote:
Posted by Vendetta (Post 710518)
...
The part where you misunderstood what I was saying...

Maybe I was unclear.

How many points per baddy?

Lizardon?
Rat?
Spider?
Swamp Sniper?
Pyrat?
Bandit?
Green Baddy?
Bat?
Blob?
Baby Blob?
Snake?
Crab?

Some take more hits or are harder to kill in general.
This is not appearing to be reflected in points.

Yog 06-05-2016 04:27 AM
Quote:
Posted by 4-Lom (Post 711436)
Some take more hits or are harder to kill in general.
This is not appearing to be reflected in points.
The values are literally the same. The numbers were just shrinked so they don't stand out in comparison to other leaderboards. Harder baddies will earn you relatively the same amount of points as it did before.

4-Lom 06-05-2016 01:03 PM
Quote:
Posted by Yog (Post 711437)
Harder baddies will earn you relatively the same amount of points as it did before.
Therein lies the problem I was mentioning, sir.

Vendetta 06-05-2016 01:56 PM
Quote:
Posted by 4-Lom (Post 711533)
Therein lies the problem I was mentioning, sir.
What's the problem? You get more points for harder baddies and less for easier ones.

wanderer 06-05-2016 02:05 PM
Quote:
Posted by Vendetta (Post 711542)
What's the problem? You get more points for harder baddies and less for easier ones.
that's not very true, for example bats (3 hits, decent spawn, almost no people) give much more than bandits (6 hits, good spawn, lots of people)

Yog 06-05-2016 04:15 PM
Quote:
Posted by 4-Lom (Post 711533)
Therein lies the problem I was mentioning, sir.
If your problem is how points are assorted per baddy then why are you complaining about this update?

4-Lom 06-05-2016 08:30 PM
Quote:
Posted by Yog (Post 711571)
If your problem is how points are assorted per baddy then why are you complaining about this update?
Cuz it hasn't changed since last time I complained when the leaderboard was rolled out in general?

I could go find the post, but you didn't seem to care about that either... so yeah.

Yog 06-05-2016 08:40 PM
Quote:
Posted by 4-Lom (Post 711628)
Cuz it hasn't changed since last time I complained when the leaderboard was rolled out in general?

I could go find the post, but you didn't seem to care about that either... so yeah.
But you're complaining about something that has nothing to do with this change. It's irrelevant.

wanderer 06-05-2016 08:45 PM
Quote:
Posted by Yog (Post 711631)
But you're complaining about something that has nothing to do with this change. It's irrelevant.
a legit complaint is irrelevant because it's not regarding this specific change?
he mentioned how there's an issue with BKing that this change hasn't addressed, what's the problem with it?

Yog 06-05-2016 09:00 PM
Quote:
Posted by wanderer (Post 711632)
a legit complaint is irrelevant because it's not regarding this specific change?
he mentioned how there's an issue with BKing that this change hasn't addressed, what's the problem with it?
Because this thread is addressing the most recent change to baddy points, and yet he's the only one in here complaining about specific values. His first post didn't even explain this. It implies he didn't like this change in particular. http://www.graalians.com/forums/show...08&postcount=9

4-Lom 06-06-2016 07:05 AM
This... may be helpful here.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

The issue remains, so far as I understand, that the 'new' points system (scrunchified) did not address the complete scope of issues with the old one (unscrunchified) in that fighting crabs/spiders is by far the most valuable method of gaining bk points, while fighting more challenging monsters, such as lizardons, black blobs, or snakes remains ineffective.

It might make the pk community feel better because the points are scrunchified, though...

Quote:
Posted by Yog (Post 711637)
It implies he didn't like this change in particular. http://www.graalians.com/forums/show...08&postcount=9
For those of you too lazy to click the link, my post in no way mentions the current change (scrunchified points), but addresses the individual monster point values.

Yog 06-06-2016 07:06 AM
Quote:
Posted by 4-Lom (Post 711823)
This... may be helpful here.
The issue remains, so far as I understand, that the 'new' points system (scrunchified) did not address the complete scope of issues with the old one (unscrunchified) in that fighting crabs/spiders is by far the most valuable method of gaining bk points, while fighting more challenging monsters, such as lizardons, black blobs, or snakes remains ineffective.
Right. What we are trying to explain is that shrinking the size of points awarded wasn't meant to balance how points are awarded because it's literally all the same relatively.

Bryan* 06-08-2016 10:30 PM
Did they changed it? Went from 700 to 1888 points.

wanderer 06-08-2016 10:44 PM
not sure if values of specific baddies are changed, but if it used to be 1 point equals 70 old points, it's about 1:25-30 right now

fp4 06-09-2016 05:08 AM
Quote:
Posted by wanderer (Post 712488)
not sure if values of specific baddies are changed, but if it used to be 1 point equals 70 old points, it's about 1:25-30 right now
It's 1:20 now.

wanderer 06-09-2016 06:52 AM
Quote:
Posted by fp4 (Post 712605)
It's 1:20 now.
okay thanks, looks much better now when you're comparing it to the other leadboards


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin/Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.