Towers Changing
 

As I speak admins are chaning towers DW inside is completely different what do y'all think

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Wider stairs are always a good thing, and I like that they gave the defending guild the distance advantage to the flag. I don't like that you can walk up into the defender's spawn area, I think that should be fixed. I like the renovation of the flag room too, and I'm glad they got rid of the pointless balcony area. Good tower upgrade.

Edit: Noticed you can't use the sword in the defender's spawn area, that's good.

I think deadwood looks AMAZING, but other players and I would really love to have the balcony back :(

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I hope mod tower is next

I liked the balcony, even though it was pointless after they made it so you can't arrow above; it still looked cool and was a way to trap (or avoid) attackers/defenders. All the other changes are good. It's nice having wider stairs so you can't block the only way to the flag with 2 people. Sardons should be widened too (hint hint). Pretty good changes, though.

Dope update, I hope dw will get stronger, rn DW is the new york

Whats wrong with mod?

Probably because there's only 1 way to the flag and again, you can easily block that by just standing in the stairway. I don't think it's necessarily a big issue at MoD, though, because it's a PK tower and difficult to defend when you don't go straight to the flag.

Also, the tiles are hideous. Don't even get me started on those gross looking floor tiles

Meh, I don't really see that as a huge issue. Hackers are the only thing that really can use that choke effectively, besides that you can usually get through with 1.5-2 health.

Castle needs to be changed before mod is looked into, Imo

Mod is easy and basic I like it like that. Castle is good I guess but idk if they ever fixed the spawn for enemies

I don't like the new Deadwood. They seem to have taken away just about everything that made the tower unique:

Firstly, the balcony is gone. It may have been useless, but it gave the tower some character and was important for this reason. Also, now that the attacker spawn is inside the tower, it is no longer practical to use bushes when pking the tower. This is unfortunate because the bush pking tactic was somewhat unique to Deadwood (pots can be quite useful in Swamp, but this is the only other example I can think of). Finally, the flagroom has been changed. It may very well be that the new, larger flag room is objectively better than the old, however Deadwood's small flag room made it stand out. Have you noticed that every tower now has virtually the same flag room?

Pretty much everything that made Deadwood interesting has been stripped away and what's left is simply a cookie-cutter tower designed in accordance with a formula for making objectively decent towers. Pretty lame tbh

They did this to make it more similar and Fair like other towers it was a good update.GJ ADMINS!!! 😀

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I like it
8/8 m8s

@ivy
@pigparty

imo, Mod is the most balanced tower between attacker/defender. Defenders only have a ~2-second advantage in respawn distance back to the flag. The fort only has one floor, making it the shortest distance back to the flag compared to other towers.

Castle is the one that has a ridiculous imbalance in respawn distances.

There's not one way to the flag. Every tower (except Sardons) has split left/right (2) paths, and every tower has one door to the flag. The forced bottle-neck at Mod is its only defense, and its really not that difficult to get in the door with 2.5-3.0

Besides, every since 2012-2013 when towers started having downstairs defender respawns, it became ineffective to block the flagroom door; because you need to let your allies back upstairs.

The update is very good and I'm glad staff are listening to suggestions, particularly regarding slim stairways and bad chokepoints. With this change, I think Swamp is the last tower left that has actual problems, like the slim pathways and that brainless water spam.

I don't think Castle is that bad, and I actually think it's good that certain towers are a little easier to defend than others. If they were all similarly designed and entirely balanced, it'd probably be a bit boring. I find it kind of cool that a tower like Destiny typically attracts the strongest guild, whereas MoD is like a fallback tower to most people.

The only time I've found spawn points to be cancerous were the old Sardon's and Snow spawn points. Spawning right beside the flag just seems like poor design to me.

I just wish castle's respawn was at the point where you respawn if you are killed outside the flagroom. That would solve the issue most of the way, my biggest issue with the current one is that, to reach the flag, you have to go through 5 doors. When the server isn't doing well, going through 5 doors is an absolute pain, especially doors that enter into the overworld.

Oh, you guys are talking about the respawn distance when you die as an attacker, not a defender... Then yes, I agree that Castle's is discouragingly far, as was the same with the old DW. At least you're able to use your horse through about half the distance.

What are all these changes? Haven't been to any of the towers in a while, are there major spawn point changes? Guess I'll have to go check em' out.

I think Castle's spawn points will all be inside soon, nobody likes having to start on the bridge while having to then go through the guard inside the tower; which offers a short delay to attackers.

I think Dusty said somewhere he fixed this (?)

And yes, I was referring to the difference between the distances of the attacker respawns and defender respawns. Castle: defender = hall > flag; attacker = bridge > entrance > garden > fountain > hall > flag

I'm liking the changes. Can't wait to see where things go! Great job staff!

That Deadwood tower update is awesome! Now there's finally room to fight.

Wider stairs are probably due to numerous feedbacks that graalians get too easily stuck on the stair entrances

Yeah, but the difference is that DW had a smaller flag room and the flag had less hit points, making it much more difficult to defend (homing DW with Absence was hell.) With Castle, it was more about how well people could pk, and then attack the flag, rather than just spamming a sword at DW.

What's it look like?

http://i.imgur.com/Ja0ConJ.png
http://i.imgur.com/H6lolyY.png
http://imgur.com/1YYbwLC.png
http://i.imgur.com/43F9yy3.png

Ah. Still looks exactly like the old levels. Except the outside.

I think for swamp, not only does the water spam need to stop but It'd be pretty cool to add a feature where parts of the tower actually slowed you down, just a thought.

As for deadwood I love the improvement in space, no more slim halls making it easy to defend and easy for team memebrs to block your path.

Okay so, lets look at an example of a good tower.
MoD, The spawns are set up so that both the defenders and the attackers have almost an equal distance to the "middle" they meet in the middle at the starecase that takes them to the flag room.
^^^this formula should be used in every fort. It is the perfect way to make a clash between defenders and attackers. The "middle ground" where the attackers and defenders meet in MoD, should be a little wider in some areas to allow people to have space to move around while killing each other.
Not necessary, but a GOOD idea that Era does, is having health on doors. I think there should only be ONE door though. It should block the one entrance into the flag room, so defenders can hold off the attackers at the middle ground and defend the door, once the door is destroyed, the attackers burst into the flag room and hit the 50/50 HP flag giving the defenders one final chance to keep it, but it would be very difficult to keep after the door is broken.
Also, I wouldn't mind if they delete a few towers and make there be only be 2/3/4 towers, just to increase the population of guilds trying to attacking making it switch ownership often constantly changing who is defending. Guilds shouldn't be holding towers for HOURS straight, thats boring.
A

It would never be boring if there were less towers (more guilds fighting in the same towers, graal towering population isn't big enough for there to be 5-6 towers)
It would never be boring if the towers create an even spawn distance so that both the Attackers and the defenders have to run an equal distance.
It would never be boring if the design included a final "door" before the flag room, that has HP, like era (except only one door) to create a defending/attacking strategy other than "get 15 people and hit flag"
It would never be boring if there was a good run distance to the "middle ground" (As seen in MoD). Not too long of a run, not too far of a run. (MoD has a great run distance tbh)

Swamp and Sards are the worst towers. Spam is annoying; Why haven't anyone brought those up yet in regards to 'slim hallways' and easy defending? Besides Swamp, Sards is just ugh.

I think castle is meant for homing if you know what I mean. While mod is like the kind of tower that is always active

Ya but... read what I said..
"Homing" is dumb asf. The concept of a "Tower Guild" Means getting 60-70 active people into sub guilds, recruiting them to main tag, "Homing" 24/7, and kicking and recruiting.
MEANINGLESS and SKILLLESS
once the new guild update comes, I'm hoping it will make guilds more permanent and have less to do with kicking and recruiting. At which time, I hope they slowly fix towers to stop this "homin" NONSENSE, and change it to an ACTIVE thing where people need to PAY ATTENTION and DEFEND the WHOLE time, or they will instantly lose it the second they go AFK, unlike the bull**** towers we have now. And what I wrote before, is a great way to FIX the towers we have now (because they all suck in strategical design when it comes to spawns except MoD)

Towers need to be different. I disagree with you there Qes. I would hate for there to be 3-6 "MoDs" around the map.

The new deadwood is great, not easy to defend, but the defenders still get a little boost by 20-ish less steps to the flag.

Sardon is good, not hard to pk and again, only maybe an extra 5 seconds for attackers to reach the flag.

Swamp isn't bad either, I kinda want the respawn to be inside and for the water spam to be fixed/adjusted.

Destiny is bad. The Attackers have to travel through two extra rooms, and go through a fan, jump down a ledge, go up a spiral staircase(which is significantly slower than a normal door), and after all that meet a third room which can easily be walled off by three defenders. A tower meant for guilds to attack, which is alright, but it even isn't very good at that.

Castle is the worst tower in my opinion. Explained why in an earlier post. Needs to be fixed or adjusted in some way.

Besides castle and destiny, I love the state of towers. Trying to uniformize towers would make pking less enjoyable, because having varying terrain is part of what makes it fun.

Agreed

Castle and Sardon's weren't originally designed to be towers and you can tell that just based on the painful walk it is to get to the flag, they were carried over from the Classic and converted to towers because there was probably no other use for them

In general the spawns should just be closer. If I PK for an hour straight, it should be 55 minutes of hitting people and 5 minutes of running, but in some forts its 40 minutes of pking and 20 minutes of running, so dumb.
Also the forts are going to be different. I was saying they just need to have equal spawn distance, or atleast close spawn distance like DeadWood. The HP on flags should be lower aswell. Which would make the door idea more useful, like a 75/75 Door that blocks the 50/50 flag. Would require more strategy to hold/take.

Keep in mind that Pking is not the mainstay of towers, and should not be the main factor on how towers are designed. Towers with longer spawn distances can add more skill to attacking them, as it keeps defenders and attackers who have died from intervening quickly. I like having a varied distance. As long as they aren't a half mile long or require going through dozens of doors.

Flag HP's is fine how they are. Believe me when I say this, even the best defenders cannot stop pkers from reaching the roof if the pker truly wants to get there. blink lasts far too long, and arrows are far too effective to stop them easily. They could be lowered to change how towers would/should be defended, but that would need to come along with other changes to said towers to make them easier to defend, which defeats the purpose.

This is my 2nd account. my first account has 12k kills. I pk on other accounts too sometimes, I'm not complaining I'm suggesting ideas that are used on other servers that I think work quiet nicely.
Running long distances to reach the flag room is not fun, the whole time your thinking "come on come on come on" until you finally get to where you want to go. I think rapid fire attacking and defending without giving anybody a second to breath is how towering should be, if you want a breather, you're guild will have to take a break from holding the fort. Unlike the towers we have now where you can get away with AFKing for 15 minutes if you have to because its a matter of quantity not quality

But towers won't be that way, no matter what you do. What you're asking for is a more active tower and pk community, and that cannot be adjusted By changing flag distances and Flag HP. It could help, but ultimately people get bored of it, and you'll end up with the same inactive towers again. People usually flock to one tower, which is why mod is always the prime example of the "perfect" tower, it is almost always active and teeming with life(not always of course, certain guilds could lock it down well). Other towers simply cannot attain that level of activity. The issue isn't the towers, it's that we don't have enough players to have towers be the way you feel they should be.

Maybe, I suggested less towers so that the populations of guilds are forced to attack the same 2-3 towers making it a lot harder.

Since we are spinning our wheels(again), I'll leave it at this. The community would not take such a change lightly, and that still would probably leave towers inactive. People will move on to other activities. When there are more towers, more guilds will appear, when there are less towers, less guilds will tower. The amount of guilds towering is directly related to the amount of towers there are. It isn't a static thing. What that would do is raise the barrier-to-entry, so to speak. If there are more towers, more people will tower because towering is easier and you don't need 50 people to hold one. If towers are difficult, less people will tower because only the guilds with 50 will have a chance to hold one for a long period of time.

Anyways, there isn't a simple solution. And at least you are willing to put ideas out there and defend them.

I didn't look at it that way. That the number of towers correlates to the number of active towering guilds. I guess that makes sense, but the design of some towers should be changed when it comes to spawns.
Also i still think having a door with HP blocking the flag room and lowering the flag health would be a cool idea. It would stress "defending the door" because once it breaks the guild holding it is kind of screwed.
Also, I hate the idea of guilds holding a tower ALL day long. Maybe this is because the "Tower guilds" now are almost temporary, hit 1,000 and they stop. Maybe once the notorious "guild update" comes, and this whole "temporary 1,000 tower guild thing" is gone, towering will be better. Hopefully guilds become multipurpose. Would it be more fun to log onto 7-10 HUGE guilds that dominate in Towering/Sparring/baddies/pking/events that always have 15-30 people online (expecting the guild member limit to change) or is it more fun with small inactive guilds. In my opinion I would love there to be HUGE guilds with a 60-75 member limit. Long as there remains some competition, if all the best PKERs and Sparrers join the same guild, it would kind of suck.