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Forts and Castles Revamp
I recently decided to go towering for old times sake, and within minutes realized how bad it was and just quit. It's not so much the towering concept or any of the functions of it, it's just the insanely large amounts of players. It really affects the gameplay negatively, considering it's just huge clusters of players swinging swords randomly, where's the skill?
Could there possibly be a remaking of the levels to go with the new Guild system? :love: |
That'd be k00l
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Doo et
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wait about a month and try again
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Honestly I hope they make it quicker to run into combat when you die, like MoD, not like sardons, castle, swamp. I also hope they actually change towering completely to make it more action packed, and make it hard so that guilds are all fighting to get 3-4 hours a day, rather then having guilds hold a tower 20-24+ hours a day. Hope they CHANGE "allies" so that allies still hit each other, but can talk in chat/not talk in chat (leaders option). Also I hope there are penalties to kicking members, to stop the kicking and recruiting issue. With that, they can raise the guild member limit to like 50 or 75. Then going back to the new towering idea, maybe they can make it so that there is a door like in era, with 50 health, except there is only 1-3 doors per tower, and guilds can use that to stop people from coming in pking them by the door, but once the doors are broken the flag only has 10-30 health, so that towers need to be actively watched. on top of that i think there should only be 2-3 towers.
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Qes your ideas are good but how abou 5 towers
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To be honest @ qes, the spawn for castle could just be moved in a closer room rather than outside on a damn bridge. I like swamps time it takes to get back to the flag but itd be cool to implement a swampy biome related floor that slows down players that walk on it. As for DeadWoods tower, the travelling is a bit too much but what really bothers me is the thin stairs we have to take, those need tp be widened so many players can go in at once.
Id keep these towers and introduce a new tower where three entrances or two would be available so the guild would have to defend in a more strategic way. |
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The Graal PK Population usually allows for there to be 5-7 BIG Active PK guilds at one time. With this said, There are 5 towers running at once. These big 5 tower guilds have an easy time holding the 5 TOWERS for 12-24 hours STRAIGHT which means theres a problem, logging on to recruit people to afk at a fort, is sad and not a skill. This issue is because of the tower system which is composed of, tower lay out, and tower amount Lets look at all of the CURRENT towers layout, we notice that castle and swamp and sardons has a HUGE run to the flag room, boring. Mod, Has a short run to the flag room, has opposing teams swamp points meeting in the middle, the only critique I have about Mod, is that I think when they meet in the middle, there should be a bigger middle. Then the enterance to the flag room should have a 50/50 door that the people can defend. Then once that is broken, it should take 10 seconds to come back. After that, the Flag room should be about the same size (because the middle room would be the main PK area UNTIL the door is broken) then there would be a 20/20 flag because once that door is broken, it should be game over with little chance of holding it. (which is why that middle area would be such a hectic PK area) Now this formula can obviously be slightly changed, but the point is - a QUICK 3 second run for BOTH the holders AND the attackers to meet in the MIDDLE. This creates a great PK area. - doors that give tower holders a chance to hold people back, but lower health doors so that they have to be constantly PKing - lower flag health because doors obviously have some effect. Now lets look at the tower amount: As i said earlier, 5 towers is too much. it allows there to be a huge spread of where players are PKing, to the point that there are only 20-50 players per tower. and 10-30 of them are the ones holding the fort. BORING. They should turn existing towers that CANNOT/SHOULD NOT be fixed- Mainly just Castle and Sardons because those are land marks, into a "sight to see", make it look abandoned and run down, still PK-able but.. no flag/fort anymore. As for the other current towers, they should be tweaked to the new layout to make it a 3 second run from spawn to the "big/medium sized middle meeting ground", given a door to stop them from reaching flag, and a low health flag with a medium sized flag room. Anyways continuing my tower amount LANDMARK TOWERS- Sardons, no function to my new "tower system." WHY- because sardons involve too much running and less PKing, but they are amazing parts of graals history and to be honest should not be deleted or changed for the sake of having them on the map for some purpose. Completely deleted towers- Deadwood, its just an awful tower to be honest. Not good for PK. Put something else cool there lmfao. Edited towers- Mod- bigger middle meeting ground, 20/20 door. Swamp- delete whole entire first level when you enter the building, including the pot room, and the grassy straight aways, REPLACE that with a quick 3 second run FOR the attackers AND the defenders, to some type of middle ground area with a 50/50 door leading to a 20/20 flag. Destiny-- make it a quicker run, and add a 50/50 door. The Sardons/destiny traps are a little much and aren’t really necessary tbh, even though they are cool, I would rather them add these type of things to hard quests that we need to dodge to get past, not add it to a PK thing. IF people disagree, fine keep them, but the run should be shorter and should lead to a medium sized PK room with one entrance/50/50 door. Castle Castle is such a classic place. but to be honest the only thing I would change, is adding a door, making the hallways wider but LESS long. (basically shifting the whole level to make it shorter but wider) and making the attackers spawn near the “PK/Spar/BK” statues. Along with the wider hallway that leaves more room for PK, I would add a door 50/50 and make the flag 20/20. Now with this update, there are 4 towers. At one time there are usually 5-7 HUGE active tower guilds. But with that said, they are active throughout different times during the day. Assuming the new leaderboard/rewards system involves hours, it should be HARDER for guilds to hold forts for a LONG time. These 4 towers should run on a SCHEDULE. When clicking the menu there should be a “Fort” button that shows you the TIMER for EACH fort. “Forts:” Castle: Active for the next 00:59 minutes Destiny: Active for the next 00:59 minutes Mod: Starts 00:59 minutes Swamp: Starts 00:59 minutes With this System, there are 2 towers running, while the other two can NOT be “held” or “taken” until the timer changes. then the forts switch. This would change every hour. What this would do is, make it impossible to hold a fort for OVER an hour straight. You would have to run to the next fort to take it. This would make PKing more active as forts switched and more concentration so many guilds are attacking on the same two forts at once. Dis agree? Okay maybe you disagree but this system would totally make PKing more intense and active. Also, If you want to keep sardons/deadwood then make the RUN shorter and add a Middle ground PK area before the Flag room.and then my Fort Schedule can be tweaked to look like this Castle: Active for the next 00:59 minutes Destiny: Active for the next 00:59 minutes Mod: Starts 00:59 minutes Swamp: Starts 00:59 minutes Sardons: Starts 01:59 h:m's DeadWood Starts 01:59h:m's Quote:
MoD probably has the best layout for PKing. Issue is, the "middle meeting area in Mod" is a small narrow straight square with a stare case in the middle. Every tower should have a good placed middle point, like MoD except it should be slightly larger to give room for PK. Then a 50/50 door to create something specific to defend. Then the flag should be 20/20 because once that door is broken, guilds can rush in to take it quickly. Adding multiple entrances is fine, as long as they all lead to the same point and all have the same short distance to that middle meeting ground for PK. (before the flag room) |
sorry will read when I get home xd
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no tower timers please, that system is wonky and is just going to make a massive mob in whichever towers are available. Other then that, I would appreciate if you did a TL;DR, because a lot of what you said is confusing(at least for me) |
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(towers is PK while holding a fort,when i say PKers i meant attackers/defenders killing each other The system I made was the make the towers more crowded/Make the rooms BEFORE the flag room bigger, with a 50HP door to stop people from coming in. If you read what I wrote I explained how I want the levels of each tower to change, and how i want to decrease the amount of towers to 2 at one time. The system of 2 hours at one time is great, means more people attacking, making it harder to hold. Also, once the hour is over, the tower would kick everyone out and they would all have to run to the next 2 towers that are open. 24 activity, never a dull moment anyways don't read this, just read what i wrote before more carefully. |
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The narrow staircase was intended to serve as a bottleneck. The reason for that was because it would give an advantage to the defending guild. However, it was also intended for all hell to break loose if any attacker broke that bottleneck. The maximum flag health was intended to be much lower. The reason for this was so the defending guild would have to quickly address a breach in that bottleneck. The respawn points were intended to make it easier to shift the balance once the flag had changed ownership. That would enable the new defenders to get to the bottleneck point more quickly than the previous defenders. It certainly was not intended to make it easier to defend the bottleneck, which is how I think most people would interpret it without background knowledge into the design history. It was also intended that the towers would require the defending guild to hold the flag for a specific amount of time tow win (and be awarded a tower victory). I think it was two minutes. And then it would take actually take about 20 minutes for any guild to win because once you broke the bottleneck, taking the flag wasn't particularly difficult. Under the current conditions, it could take a lot longer than that. Unfortunately, after my hand in that, and before iClassic was born, someone decided to revert back to the hold-forever version of towering that goes on today. It was likely reverted because the system I designed wasn't like the previous towering system, and some people had opinions that Classic towering should be exactly like it was 2000. I doubt anyone put gameplay aspects above nostalgia in that decision. They took out the victory timer, upped the flag health, made the flag defenders persistent (no victories, just ownership) in order to make it consistent with how towering had previously operated. They kept the bottleneck and the respawn points, which wasn't consistent with how towering had previously operated. Now you've got artifacts of both systems that don't particularly work well together. |
Can't wait for the New Guild System
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Yea, whatever system is added, it needs to make it really hard for guilds to hold towers, you need to be actively awake the whole time.
Guild forts should be switching between guilds every 15 minutes to be honest |
This aint sparring grounds.
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6 Attachment(s)
Original MoD Fort
Attachment 21600
MoD Fort from when I started playing until the first server wipe Attachment 21601 Attachment 21602
2006 MoD Fort (my design) Attachment 21604 Attachment 21603 Attachment 21605
What I want to see:
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Quit with this: Doorhealth/low hp/2min event crap fun was back when it was highhp/old spawns/having to continuously pk for the fort not hit it like 20time and have already everything now was just set up for a sparrer small(spar area)flag rooms/low hp/no heal pots/spawns set for defensive stance/stamina on weapons like wtf..When noone of old towerers ever asked for this, only started to change once sparrers got bored with sparring and there was not much being done to improve it at the time.
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I went on recently and since all them changes have happened it seems alot more dead now then it was back then, I do agree another design/how to get tower etc should possibly be done to spice things up but not really a fan of bashing through doors that have hp just to get to flag(especially if they can heal/I think that's more the problem everythings more set out on defending now while attacking was the fun part)
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huh? not following you. We just want towering to have more competition. Holding a fort for an hour to 24 hours straight, isn't competition. its boring. Towers should be hard to hold, should take 15 active people who are nonstop playing and FIGHTING to keep it, at all times. You go to towers now, its all relaxed, not much struggle.
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In no way should towers be easier to defend or harder to attack... They're only fun when they're active, and they're only active when there's an expectation of them changing hands.
Suggesting that towers were better many years ago does not compute to me... Sardon's is pretty difficult to lose right now. Reflect for a second and remember that at one point:
In terms of design, I think all of them are fine right now except Swamp and DW. The long, narrow pathways and stairs make it impossible to outplay anyone and make it too easy for a single smart player to block the path of 5+ attackers. DW was at least improved with the spawn point being moved back. |
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What I said regarding what I want to see with the current guild forts:
I'm not confident the late 2006 system would hold up to the current server population with a 1-hit flag. That's why I'm using relatives in what I'd like to see (hold flag for fixed amount of time like 2min for victory with an average time to victory of 15min and the expected number of sustained flagholder changes being 3 or 4 times per 15 minutes. I mention lower flag HP because I doubt it's possible without lowering flag HP. |
Stuff like the blocking entrance etc made more pkers in one spot things like healing pots etc was actually a good thing for both, but cutting out the stamina on combat weapons(said it before THIS AINT SPARRING GROUNDS) loses the spark of fun when you slow the combat down, even stuff like mod outside being none pk kills the vibe like okay it's annoying having pk mobs there but it makes more entertaining seeing them get pk's and also makes the tower more complicated for the defenders as the pkers would join in on guilds attacks..Oh also horses in towers was actually fun, guys take away all fun attack stuff.
Now its just like oh well 1k hours sucks now(part from last few with gd chance of hat) and why the hell would we go for lots of hours for some gralats and a little plack that we can only buy on stuff tim who bought some gralats can buy also, woo we get vip and another candle hat! just what firemansam woulld have wanted.. they can't even go for being high on ldrbds now(Not to mention that there is no history still of how the full ldrbd ended when it went to seasonal-why the hell anyone want to get time if they are brushed aside now) its all this seasonal stuff that works well for pk/spar etc but guild wise I think it's pretty poor anyone with right mind would just keep joining the ones high up on it to take reward |
wtf is this guy yelling "this isn't sparring grounds" lmfao. As if my opinions don't matter because I spar? I also used to tower, and when i go tower now I see nothing changed.
briefly, the issue with towers is how easy it is to hold them for HOURS. like illusive, had 14days of tower time in a week. Really? Like the system shouldn't be the way it is. We need to get rid of the whole thing that PROHIBITS you from hitting your allies. And make the guild Capacity limit to 50-100. Then we need to make there be a penalty (subtracting score) for kicking members, so kicking and recruiting stops. (honestly get rid of allies) Then we need the structure/Flag health to make it so that towers "switch hands" all the time, and keeping a tower for more than an 15 minutes straight should be REALLY hard to do. Should take constant concentration, no sitting around and AFKing and AFK blocking doors. Lmfao Quote:
We aren't asking for "an event". We are asking to fix the broken towering system by making it more competitive and harder to hold. If you think kicking and recruiting is a competitive thing, your off your rocker. |
Only broken thing is the guild system, Qes and G-fatal are arguing over things that'll never be tweaked. Take away the allies feature and add in 50-65 guild slots (100 is a bit extreme) refund any guild owner xAmount of gralats for the ally feature they payed for then change the leadership and co leadership system so it actually works like a guild.
Hopefully the new guild system that is currently being worked on abolishes the current meta of spam recruiting new players and ordering them to sit at a flag or be kicked. |
If you want to make it harder why the hell are players accepting stuff like no horses in forts stamina knock on combat weapons no pk outside mod accepting change of spawns(done ages ago) If you guys really wanted it to be hard you'd have all this back but even then you'd be bored as noone gives a **** bwt a seasonal guild ldrbd for a plack and money prize..so until they change that and also remember the past ldrbd nothing will change in competitiveness even if the forts had 20hp as whats point of working for your guild to not be remembered and to get a prize that can only buy stuff any other player can already buy ongame.
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wtf is this kid saying lol.
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for 1 i'm not a 'kid'anyways Like you say you want forts hard yet you also want:-no horses
-no pk just outside fort(mod) so no pkmobs that bring fight also to fort -no spam of bombs and arrows(simply because it apparently evens gameplay out-forts arnt meant to be even(like telling isis to fight with missiles to even it out) tell me how this stuff makes not harder for defence? Personally I've always wanted a graal server to make it so there is no allies and guilds can only have 10players in would make it harder to noob recruit as majority would want to be perm, this would create more guilds around, also decreasing the towers again to like 3 maybe would result in bit more activity(like castle/sardons/swamp or something) |
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Family guilds could have a lower amount of members, like 15-20 or so, while competitive guilds could 50-65 like you said. |
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