Killing yourself at 0.5
 

Could their be something to fix that?It's the most annoying thing ever.

Last person who registered a direct hit should get the kill. Guildmates, bombs, spikes, baddies, etc should not be allowed to deny kills.

I like that.

this isn't something to fix, I can tell you that most people do that to annoy you so why not annoy them back?
"a person who indirectly gets someone killed should get a kill", all I got from your post

He said that last person to hit a person to 0.5 and than if the person dies from spykes or some sort should get the kill.

haha. i used to do that all the time.

exactly what I summed up, does it make sense for you to get a kill when you didn't?

why does it matter?

lol yep ill hunt it down for next 2 hours straight.

only thing i am annoyed about is, horse fire-suicide method. the rest, it's waste of their time.

how do other servers handle this?
zodiac - won't let you enter the building during the combat. so if ur attacked ur pretty much ****ed.
era - if they run, era allows you to kill ur enemy inside the building for next 10-15 second. and if u log out, ur character stays still for 5 second right?

I think iEra removed that.

Should decrease kills if you kill a guild member. Bunch of noobs boost off each other

Works just fine for me. They take themselves out of position and have fewer team members at the flag. They also have to rush back to the flag after re-spawning. Makes it easier to steal the tower. If they are at 0.5 and not at tower, just move on. Not like that one kill is so important.

Don't see why it should be changed, viable and smart strategy when you're defending a tower
If I can't do this at a tower like Swamp, I'm just going to go down from the flag and intentionally suicide to a PKer at 0.5 - how's that any better?

I personally like the chase, besides you guys shouldn't be so upset when players do it because we did the same exact thing some of you even still do it.

AP was originally designed as a scale for implementing measures against people that would just run off and heal. That's a lame way to boost stats, it's classed as laming. In it's essence, it's a scale implemented to eliminate laming among more active PKers.

Players would kill newbies and people who never PK. That's a lame way to boost stats, it's classed as laming. Sainthood was implemented, which provided unskilled newbies and players who would prefer not to participate in PKing an opt out of PKing.

Players would just wait to gain sainthood, attack another player to near death, and then let someone else take the kill. That's lame. It's classed as laming. I was the person who made the decision and implemented on PC Classic that anyone with sainthood loses sainthood on a single attack. It was carried over into iClassic.

What you see now is player's denying another player a kill via suicide, hurts their opponents stats, which is lame. Hence why it should be classed as laming.

I would class suicides as counting against AP. If a player's AP is below the healing limit, a suicide should count as a kill to the last player to attack that person since their most recent death. An important condition is applying this rule only since their most recent death, otherwise, someone could boost kills off of a suicidal account holder or alt account. Boosting is lame, Graal's glameplay doesn't need that.

Guess I'll just stay away from the AP increment schedule, but for an overview otherwise that would incorporate this idea:

1. AP = 100: invincible, AP decreases on attack, kill, suicide (makes sense for suicides to disqualify you from sainthood)
2. AP < 100: AP decreases on kill, suicide
3. AP < 40: no healing, suicides contribute to kill stat of most recent attacker since most recent death
4. 20 <= AP < 40: max hearts 5
5. 0 <= AP < 20: max hearts 3

Of course, since iClassic has only ever seen 3 hearts, not many have seen the 20 AP and 40 AP threshold effects aside from not being able to heal. Also, suicides don't have to be applied at the same AP limits, but it makes sense to roll them into the AP system since it was intended to limit that kind of behavior.

^^^^^^^

Just edited that post a bunch, also to include suicide as a saint as counting against AP simply because it doesn't make sense to call someone a saint and allow them to maintain sainthood if they kill themselves. It's still the same idea in spirit.

Why take away a perfectly legitamate style of pking and defense? Killing yourself has its place, and I think that it's actually a more skillful part of pking.

My advice to beating it

Get good at chasing people so they can't bomb themselves. Even at sards you can protect the door and swing when they try and leave. Even the lantern+bomb can be easily beaten by a good chaser, as they lose their blink when they place the bomb. This isn't a issue with the game, if anything it makes pking more interesting and exciting.

if someone is on my bad side I will SD so they will never kill me. Sometimes ill do it just for practice. Hell, some days I'll just feel like it and do it. Do I feel bad for "robbing" you of a kill? Not at all, because if you weren't good enough to stop my suicide then you didn't deserve to kill me.

All I want is for kills to not count or decrease when players team kill their guild members on .5 with an arrow or a bomb.

"Healing yourself is a perfectly legitamate style of PKing."

"Killing n00bz is a perfectly legitamate style of PKing."

"Attacking people with saint is a perfectly legitamate style of PKing."

Meanwhile, why take away a "legitamate" style of defense? How in the world is killing yourself a defense? There's no honor in it. It has a negative effect on gameplay, plain and simple.

Staff on Classic, to my knowledge, never went through scripted efforts to stop laming... I can't recall them really punishing anyone who chose to do it either. If they did, Silvercrank went unpunished for years. The trident NPC existed almost exclusively for laming. I don't agree with limiting players to playing a certain way just because the community perceives their strategy as lame.

I also believe team kills shouldn't count toward stats, unless anyone wants a specific stat for team kills so you know who to expel from your guild.

Yeah it's annoying, but I honestly don't think anything should be done about it.

Whenever someone suicides they are only making themselves worse off. Wasting their time focusing on dying rather than getting a few more kills with their half heart. If you think you deserve the kill just because you got the last hit before they suicided, you should also argue that whoever did the most damage to the person deserves the kill, not just whoever got the last hit. It would be more fair, but overly complicated and unnecessary. People deny and/or steal your kills, but you most likely deny and/or steal theirs too.

Team kills don't count as kills and it's been like that for a longgg time. Towering guilds only kill their members to heal them or deny the kills from pkers hoping that they will become discouraged and pk different towers

Review of Graal Online PKing: Annoying
Review of Graal Online PKing: Competitive

What would most prospective players prefer?

Just gecause they cant take the time to either chase or ignore the kill? Because they get salty and want the person thats annoying them to onky have the choice of death by their hands?

They can get the kill its just that they dont like that its harder cuz players can kill themselves which is a good challenge imo.

I hope you didn't stop reading there.

I never said pking is annoying. My statement was specifically about suiciding, which denies a kill from a player. Which of course, is annoying. However, there is more than 1 way to deny a kill, not just suiciding, so that "annoying" factor of missing out on a kill will always be present.

It's a defense because it makes pking your tower less desirable, isn't that obvious? There obviously isn't honor in it. If you were going for honor you would fight to the death. But why limit people to just the honor choice? Why not let people choose how they want to be seen, instead of forcing them to confine to the way you think they should be.

And the Impact of gameplay is debatable. I can argue that it forces people to improve, instead of giving them a kill they didn't finish off.

Seen this a few times in swamp near destiny. Those fires are pretty handy for suicide noobs. Where's Jeffery when you need him?

Kidding aside, the major drawback I see in current implementation of suicide is the fact that they don't drop bombs or arrows. It's just an annoyance to have some random roll up on ya while writing a message and kill you for your ammo, then run off and kill themselves without any penalty. Damn punk thieves...

Agreed, make it so they drop bombs and arrows when they suicide aswell.

Killing guild members on .5 of health do count as kills since their stat increases. Team kills should be negated or don't give you the kill at all.

To be fair on both sides, if you are either at a low health, or even just for fun, they could implement a suicide button, and as Aguzo implied, the last person that hit you should get the kill.

"I should get a kill for almost killing person A, even when I don't slash my sword at him at 0.5HP and actually kill him!", flawed logic right there

There used to be a Suicide Dagger you could get as a GC Prize before the first server wipe. I've changed my mind about the last person hitting you getting the kill. Instead, I think nobody should get that kill. See my new thoughts below.

I hate to say it, but you make a good point. For this reason, I have come up with a different, even better idea. If you kill yourself at some reasonable AP threshold, you respawn with the same health you had when you killed yourself. In addition, suicides count against AP the same as a kill. It actually fits better with the historic application of AP, which limited the number of hearts you could respawn with (3 @ AP < 20; 5 @ AP < 40).

To add: This also makes more sense in that it would make it a skill to avoid accidental suicides, whereas right now some people are calling it a skill to engage in intentional suicide.

Nope. That honestly sounds more annoying than suiciding is. It not only punishes the small percentage of people that suicide, but everyone. There doesn't need to be a "fix" for suiciding because it's really not much of a problem as it doesn't even occur that often. And when it does happen, it can easily be ignored because there are plenty of other people around to pk.

Imagine the death loop you could get into @ Sardon's spike room.(if im understanding what Deadowl said correctly.)

It's not even being used as a strategy.

A lot of people run away at 0.5, and then have their guildmates kill them, just so the pker will leave their tower.

Maybe it's just me, but by arrowing their teammates, I don't get the kill, after putting in 5 hits. Makes me just get bored very fast, since it's not as fast to get quick kills as mob sword spamming, and the fun also gets taken away.

I'm not trained for suicide prevention :0

As for the thread, personally as a saint my death rate dropped substantially when I reached sainthood, sure there are arrows and bombs but they are fairly easy to avoid and block (they are much easier to do so even now thanks to the stamina which prevents spamming) however there is the fire lantern. It's ironic being that fire is actually the thing that kills me the most apart from the others means. As a short and terse answer, yes I will occasionally suicide, mostly to clear off 0.5 and to prevent players from getting an "legit" and "ez" kill, I'm a saint I can't harm anyone and can't be harm via sword, but the lantern is pretty much the sword imo. I've asked Dusty about this before, about making the 3000g firefighter suit some what fireproof. (He said no can do).
Despite that, I agree with most of Deadowl's points on how killing yourself should automatically count as a kill, however players will still commit suicide for other various reasons and they can't be completely stamped out of practice.

That is the strategy though, at least for tower guilds: deny kills from pkers until they leave the tower. And I don't see any issue with that. In my opinion, the tower guilds have every right to try to get pkers to leave. It's not their job to fight off pkers. The point of towering is to defend against other guilds from taking their flag.

http://www.graalians.com/forums/atta...1&d=1461786272


Being in the same guild and killing them on .5, does indeed count as a kill, as shown in the image I provided. This should be negated or not count towards your stats, since it's practically boosting.

Since I'm apart of the PK community, I do not find discourage or discomfort when they suicide since I kill until I meet my goal for the day.

Picture's not showing up, Bryan. Not sure how much proof a picture is anyways, but you were right. I could've sworn they had it set so that team kills didn't count, but apparently they changed it back. I agree they shouldn't count as kills.

I'd honestly consider kicking someone from my tower guild, or at least reassigning their position, if they don't suicide at 0.5...

If you're ever at a tower like Swamp or Destiny and you're at 0.5 at the flag, during downtime or after all attackers have been killed, you're kinda bad... That can be the sole reason a guild loses a tower. You suicide in that situation not to deny PKs, but to respawn and defend the tower at full health against a coordinated attack.

No one is saying that suiciding to defend faster is bad.

Suciding or having a teammate kill you is bad. Denying kills is bad. I used to pk at castle, then heal with the pots in top left room, next to the fountain. Everyone would go crazy.

You can suicide to defend faster, but the last person that registered a hit, and is not a guild member, ally, bomb, arrow, baddy should get the kill.

Why should they get the kill, when they didn't get the kill... Wat? And who decided that it's bad and why?

Because people are abusing it. They fight against the pker. The pker gets them to 0.5 or 1hp, and then they run away to the suicide, and repeat. They get their teammate to arrow them, use a bomb, or a spike.

You can use it as a strategy to get to the flag and defend faster with full hp, and the last person who isn't a teammate should get the kill.

Its not like you should expect people not to abuse it, no matter what in any game some players abuse something like this to annoy any player they can annoy and its clearly working out in their favor. Just because those plebs dont wanna get killed rightfully and abuse it doesnt mean we should make it so thats not possible, ruin the strageties behind them to keep a tower steadily, just cuz of that issue.

omg...

As kosiris said, why give them a kill they didn't actually do? Besides, that system is flawed. Instead of suiciding themselves they will just have someone sit off-tag and collect the kills instead. No system that I can think of will actually work for this, though im biased becuase I don't feel one is needed.

As a pker, it's your job to stop them from doing this. It isn't the massively difficult thing the anti-suiciders act like it is. It is as simple as swinging at a door, or hitting the flag so they can't go and suicide. Or throwing a bomb of yours so when the bombs explode you get the kill.

Stop ****ing walking into fire. You could kill yourself with bombs since Graal was made, and it's never been changed because only newbs kill themselves with bombs.

NEWBIES

I don't see what's wrong with getting the kill, when you got the player to 0.5, and they run away and suicide, or give their teammate the kill (which is boosting kills).

A lot of guilds at sards have done this. Teammates will line up, and let their buddies areow them to deny a pker the kill.

If you want, let your guildmate arrow you for your strategies, but the pker who registered the last hit should get the kill.

A lot of people in sards (from my experience) have done this. Makes me not want to pk, after getting them to 0.5 consistently, then they let other members get the kill from arrows. Pking becomes super slow, and makes you want to go somewhere else.

With how arrows used to be, I could understand the annoyance(and with how old sards was). But since arrows don't go through things anymore, you don't have this problem nearly as much. But tbh, with all of the balancing updates done recently, I just don't see the need for something like that.

But, ultimately it isn't up to me anyway.