Should GST hat edits be allowed?
 

A few months ago some players were denied modifications to their gst hat, even if it was a simple recolor (from what I heard, it was only a recolor).

Since then, a new rule has been set that players are not allowed to modify their gst hats in any way. Before you answer this question, I'd like to list a few rules, that would probably enable you and your team to modify your hat. These regulations will be stated, so that players can know what they are allowed to do, and what they should refrain from doing.

1. If you know who the staff member that made the gst hat you own is, then you can ask them to edit it. If they decline, then you can do it yourself.

2. If the creator of the hat accepts, then you must wait at least a full week to let them: Edit, and upload.

3. Do not keep asking the creator of the hat, "Have you started yet?", "When will it be done?", or "Have you uploaded yet?" If the week has passed, then the staff doesn't have time to edit the hat, and leaves it for you to do the edit. (Follow the rules/guidelines below)

4. You cannot submit a different hat, or remove any parts of the hat.

5. If you are recoloring the hat, be sure to recolor the hat with same values for the shade, but a different color. If you do not do this correctly, then the edit can be denied.

6. Make sure that there are no transparency issues with your hat.

7. Your first edit submitted is also your final submission. After that, you are not allowed to resubmit, or say "Wait, I change my mind."

8. Once you submit, please allow up 2 weeks for your edited hat to be uploaded. Once uploaded, the hat takes time to change, so be patient.

So to recap

What you are allowed to do:

Recolor the hat, using the same exact shading.
Make lenses for glasses/shades, or visors for helmets transparent (Not fully)
If the hat is not centered, or too low/too high, you can align it how you please (The hat can't be all the way above your head, nor should it be too low)
Make eyes blink, if your hat has eyes *Staff required*
Add GST logo on the back *Staff required*

What you are not allowed to do:

Add your guild logo (This is because, staff doesn't know if your logo is taken from somewhere else, so this one is just for safety)
You aren't allowed to add or remove parts. (Unless Staff is the one that's editing)
You can't submit a different hat.
You can't bother staff, be patient.
You can't resubmit, or change your mind. First edit is final. (Unless you had transparency issues)

One last thing. Respect the people who made the hat. Don't abuse their kindness, and if you do edit, don't blow it in their faces saying things like, "So much better now."

If the staff does edit, the least you can do is say "Thank you."

So, should edits for gst hats be allowed?

What other rules do you think should be added regarding edits? If you have any thoughts on that.

I personally feel like if these sort of rules were set, staff might allow edits.

Okay well this is and always will be a no. 1k hats are already a pain so we're not about to let players edit staff-made GST hats. Pretty sure we don't even allow recolors on 1k hats once they've been uploaded. Only extremely minor edits, but those are even problematic due to the cache. If we let players edit GST hats then we'd either have to delete the original, remove it from the winners, upload the new version, and re-add it to the winners or the winners will just have to wait forever for the cache to update.

1k hats are one thing because the guild gets to design it and have someone of their choosing create it. They get to revise and edit it all they want before it's submitted, unlike GST hats where they are pre-made and they get to choose after they're already uploaded. Not only would it get incredibly annoying after some time, but it would be complicated because of the cache AND players may edit it in such a way that it would look really... really bad. So... No thanks.

So you're telling me like 80 people out there can't make their own hats?

Yep, they should, just like guilds were allowed random edits in the past
Apparently this all stopped after the Fall 2015 GST, where I was politely told to **** myself and never dare ask for a GST hat edit again
Taking that and the interest of near-consistency into consideration: I changed my mind and say no, they shouldn't

I can understand when a staff denies any edit to their hat. Maybe the person doesn't have the time, or feels like their work was "not good enough", which they shouldn't feel that way. (Especially when people only ask for/want to do a recolor)

I can also understand that just because a staff member allowed it, doesn't make it fair either. People could call them out on "preferences."

There is also the possible theory that you guys don't want extra work on your hands, and having all the people who got 1st-3rd in each side of the tourney ask for an edit, seems like a pain.

But, if it's just a recolor w/ the same exact shading, and not removing/adding parts, unless the one who made the hat is doing the editing, then I don't see what the problem is. Especially when the rules state that staff have a lot of time allowed to upload, before you bother them, and players have to be patient. No re-submissions after the 1st edit either.

Also, I'd like to state that I personally do not really care if edits are allowed or not. I just feel like they should be allowed. Color preferences, and what not. I received a hat, and really liked it. Another member on the team thought of making the lens for the hat transparent, so the face could be visible. We asked the staff politely, and even told them "You don't have to, if you don't want to." The hat still looks great without it, just preferences.

This is where the "preferences" come into play.
They allowed it for them, so I should be allowed as well.
They didn't allow it for me, so no one else can.

Not arguing with the staff member that made your hat, or at least try to reason with them with something other than "They were allowed to, so I should be allowed as well", could have helped you out a lot.

I think staff stopped allowing edits, mostly because of too many players asking.

You were one of the people in that thread telling me that they shouldn't upload our hat edit. Now you want your hat edited.

There was never any argument with the staff member that made our hat. Sun offered to edit it and did it quickly and cleanly:
http://puu.sh/nsVYt/413731918d.png

The people against it were:

• GFX admin, Leah (literally just said "no")
• GFX staff, Kenovo (the same guy who later submitted, and had approved, multiple Christmas hats designed after his in-game guild "FROOT", which is a clear conflict of interest and maybe even a copyright concern considering it's all designed after a Marina & The Diamonds album)

Oh wait, edit your own gst hat, whoops, thought he meant reupload someone else's gst hat with changes.
My bad for skimming.

Did I really? I don't think that I ever posted that, but a link would be nice.

Anyways, yes/no. I don't care if the hat that Drea made gets edited or not, it looks nice either way.

You wanted a recolor, I think because alumni has a lot of red/blue hats.
Blackout wanted the visor to be transparent. Basically preferences.
Contego wanted the helmet to also have "gst" on the back, but we didn't ask for that to not ask for too much. (Plus, then it wouldn't look as cosmetic, imo)

What I would like though, is for players and staff to come to terms and understand each other. Why edits aren't allowed or why they should be allowed if a certain set rules were given. These rules are just examples. There could be more towards the issue, which is why I am asking both parties.

For instance, some players feel like "at least 1st place should be allowed to upload their own hat." That can't be done, mostly, because they aren't staff and it's unsafe. (They could upload something from another game)

Tbh that last part sounds exactly like them lmao like they seem to always be like that

Hate all the GST hats I own/wouldn't ever wear, but improving it to a little bit to the guilds taste doesn't seem too unreasonable. Voted yes.

So its ok to edit 1k hats which are happening 4-5 times a month. But its not ok to edit gst hats where 6 are given out every 3 months?

Im pretty sure guilds that place first always pick the hat that has "gst" on it. So that kinda edit wouldnt be fair xP

who said that XDXDXD

I have 9 now, only 2 of them are wearable (in my opinion).

GST hats and tower rewards are the only things you can win to show some symbol of achievement as a guild. It should have been a rule from the start that you're allowed GST hat edits like simple recolors (to match your guild colors) and small symbol changes (even if just a letter) to personalize it so that it represents your guild. Making two (at max) small edits every 3 months is not going to break anyone's back.

It wasn't the exact language obviously, but the way Leah responded and then Kenovo ranted on the forums was pretty rude.

Two of my gst hats have been edited. I'm positive if you talk to the maker of the specific hat and either fp4 or xor the hat will be edited, approved and uploaded. I wouldn't bother involving Leah since she is straight up rude and ignorant.

1k hats are permitted because sometimes things go unnoticed by whoever made then and need to be fixed or adjusted. Which is why we only allow tiny edits. It's not something we encourage due to the cache but it's allowed.

If it wasn't for the cache then perhaps it would be okay. But it sucks when something gets edited and uploaded and everyone complains that they can't see the edit and there's nothing we can about it but tell them they just have to wait it out and eventually they'll see it or upload it with a different filename. It's not easy just overwriting graphics, which is why we always upload a test file and make sure everything is okay before we upload the actual filename we want to use. This goes for everything and I've just started doing it with guild hats so to avoid the trouble.

I mean he wasn't actually trying to promote his guild or anything. He just rly rly rly liked the album (rly rly liked it) to a point of inspiration. I don't see how fruit headphones would be violating a copyright or promoting a guild.

I personally think that edits should only be allowed if there is an actual reason. I get that people want their own personal guild hat won an GST, but thats not how the system currently works. The hats are designed by staff (as far as I know) and put there as a prize for people to win. I figured from this thread that the winner can actually choose the hat from a few. So take the one you like best, but you gotta live with it.

If you want your own customized GST hat, iClassic could respond to that by allowing the winner an actual self-made hat.

I personally think that people just gotta live with the fact how the hat looks, if you don't like it don't choose it. For example we had 5 official guilds of Venus Gospel (1 + 4) and a whole bunch of people who didn't fit in any of those guilds (we actually didn't noob recruit). Imagine if over 100 people give their input of improvement ideas for the hat. Even a whole guild is alot already. Who has the final word? The guild leader? A vote? Etc... Of course a lot of those issues could be resolved, but in the end it would just change the colour of a single hat. A lot of work and Drama for a simple hat, so that's why I think a single hat isn't actually worth it, sorry.

And as Coco said, the cache is a bitch on Graal. With everything, and even myself as a LAT am inflicted by the great deal of time to actually update something for every single person online. So at least respect that reason, even if you disagree with everything else.

Alrite every1 who voted no has 0 chance of ever getting 1 except inco n winter lol

If it's this much trouble to deal with the cache for hats that appear every 3 months, there must be a serious problem with why it is this big of a deal in the first place, and also a good reason to release less hats in general. This all seems like a pretty short-term solution from that perspective.

If it truly is not as bad as that, then I see no issue with it as far as workload goes, only pride possibly.

Voted yes because in all honesty the first place prize for GST should be that the guild who wins is allowed to upload their own custom hat entirely.

The Problems are the edits, not the actual first uploads

But isn't that basically the same as adding one more hat?

sounds legit I'm all for it

So you're saying they own a personal custom hat for only 6 players for an event that takes one day while some people have to spend 1k hours for a hat that gets added to 25 players?
I don't see how that's fair lol

I've done both. Winning the Gst is much harder.

Seems fair and proportionate to me considering that winning a GST is harder + more prestigious than being part of a 1k towering guild.

Is it fair that we're competing for a prize that we don't even want 90% of the time? That doesn't seem really fair to us, tbh. Five of the seven GST hats that I have are honestly a complete waste of space in my hat inventory.

I do agree that they need to make gst hats a lot better. I just don't agree on getting custom ones made by the guild or for the guild themselves

wtf winter is alive?

I agree with GST hats needing to be a lot better, because it's clear the community has been unhappy with them for a while now.

However, can you please elaborate a bit on why you don't agree on custom hats?

I don't really care that he did it, just doesn't seem right after how he told us we shouldn't be granted an edit when we actually achieved something as a guild, whereas his was some popstar fan guild that basically managed to get 5 hats publicly uploaded that clearly represent it

I've led 5 1k guilds and won 9 GSTs. My longest 1k guild took ~40ish days. The GST is every 90 days.

On top of that, you're guaranteed to hit 1k if you just stay at it. You can enter the GST 20 times and still not win through persistence and effort - [insert SLX joke here]. Even when you do win the GST, 7 people get the hat and 25 people get a 1k hat.

Well look at it like this.
GST is an extra thing you can do with a few members of your guild.
It takes a day to actually be there and win.
The hat you'll receive is rarer since there's a lower amount given away.

It devalues 1k hats since you have to spend those (according to you) 40 days for a custom hat for 25 players and in a gst it only takes one day of participating for a chance of getting a rarer hat already.
So yeah, I don't think it's fair if gst hats would be fully custom made by the guild as it's an extra thing.

That's just my opinion, there's no real point in discussing it further

If you think all that's required to win a GST is to log on for 1 day and spar, you are mistaken
That's like the equivalent of saying all you have to do to hit 1k is to hold the tower for 1 hour at 999 hours

so is this can't or won't?

I voted NO because I will never win one. :(:'(

No you're a 1337 sparrer now remember? You got this

There's the fact that you're guaranteed 25 people will be given a hat after 40 days of towering, meanwhile entering GST you have a 1 in 32 or 64 chance(without taking in account "skill level", team practice, etc) to win GST.

The work gone into earning a gst is MUCH more than the effort in hitting a pole for 1000 hours

If you knew the amount of work we put into guild sparring... But you clearly don't. I'm sure practicing almost everynight is nothing all you do is sit at a tower.

Basically. Being able to win a tournament where every one of the best players is participating is much harder, the prize should be much better. You're right in saying theres no point in discussing it further with you because you clearly don't understand how much more challenging it is to win a GST.

damn ding

yes tho GST is much harder as most guilds babysit all day and face NO ONE when gst competitors are facing sparrers most likely after round 3) Who have full experience.

I'm sure more sparrers could get 1k than towerers could win gst.

Also from someone who has towered before, in a 5k/10k.

Even the extended hours past 1k included, GST is much harder. Usually now when a tower guild goes for 1k, they make alliances with all of the other "major" guilds, and they agree never to attack each other and just sit and hold the tower for 1k straight. 80% of the time they'll probably be dealing with 1-3 pkers in their tower, held off by 14+ members roughly. That honestly does not sound difficult at all, even objectively. It just sounds like a reward for how many hours spent in a certain level.

People don't seem to understand that you're getting 6 hats tailored to you by the graphics team for every GST. I don't think you guys know how time consuming making those hats are, and now you expect us to do edits to them? You get to see the hats before you sign up so you know what you're going to be playing for. If you don't like the hats then don't sign up.

If you guys think 1K is easier then why don't you just stick to 1k hats instead so you get exactly what you want?

Not sure why this is even a discussion. You all may say that GST is much harder than towering, but you can't compare those things because they are entirely separate. Towering's easy if you play the system, join all the other 'pro' towerers and keep getting 1k repeatedly, or even 5k-10k. Of course it's not that difficult then, just time consuming. From someone who had to build his own guild from the start and get it to 1k, I never joined the already-considered 'pro' guilds just to wait until they get 1k and then start my own guild and have everyone transfer over. Me and Gold towered ourselves vs. everyone and I can tell you it's difficult as hell. GST could be easy to win if you're faces vs. bad teams at the beginning, then someone goes offline & your opposing team has only 4 players when you're in the semi-finals, etc. The system can be played. I'm not saying it's easy to win the GST for all those emotionally rampaged people seeing this and are now outraged. I'm simply saying you can't even compare sparring in the GST to towering. A 1k prize is a custom hat. If you make the GST prize a custom hat, then there's no difference. It wouldn't be special at all. The specialty comes from it being one of a few options of hats that can only be added to the game if chosen and won by your guild. The last thing we need is more "custom-made" (because they're all just copies/edits) of anbu masks. Maybe the GST prize needs to be altogether changed; I don't know. However, making it a custom hat is beyond stupid and personally, that devalues the GST prize more than receiving a pre-made hat.

From someone who has won a GST twice now, me and my VIS bros had to vs. Alumni(CRZ) Silver Rebellious and Sarah's team in one tournament and I can tell you that it is difficult as hell.
system played?

I'll say no but only if they start working together with the 3 mixed and iDevice champions on what kind of hats that they would like to see. If they don't want to do that, then guilds should be allowed to do small changes on their own.

Lol. If you would read my post completely, instead of getting pissed and biased as I said some people would, you would see I said the system can be played. I didn't say it always is. I gave the same example for towering. Try not looking at my post with such bias that you can't see everything being said.

my thoughts exactly

LOL

yea she was on a couple days ago.. possibly yesterday i don't remember

I built my guild from scratch in 2011 n i was a no name buddy. Gsts harder

I was too, 'buddy.' You can give a blanket statement with no reasoning behind it, as you just did, but it doesn't mean you're correct. Far from it actually. You can't compare the 2 together, but if you want to so badly, calculate the odds of winning a GST tournament, vs. the odds of getting 1k tower hours. 1k will be thousands of a percent more difficult than winning a GST with 64? teams in the mix. Nice try, but not really. I don't need much arguing anymore if your posts will contain blanket statements with no explanation or reasoning behind it, rather than your pety bias & ignorant opinion. :)