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Graalians (https://www.graalians.com/forums/index.php)
-   Classic Future Improvements (https://www.graalians.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26)
-   -   Singles spar tournament (https://www.graalians.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32278)

David 11-13-2015 08:23 AM
Singles spar tournament
 
Why doesn't this exist? Is there solid reasoning behind why it doesn't exist?

Aguzo 11-13-2015 08:36 AM
1. You need a system that can actually rank the good players from the bad ones.

2. A lag cap, first and foremost. No laggers/delayers allowed to keep it fair.

3. Hats, trophy, levels.

4. Staff that can summon correctly.

5. A server that can handle the lagfest. Would be nice if only the players that are participating can connect to the server, meanwhile everyone else can watch the event on twitch or some other livestreaming site.

Mostly just 1 and 2.

David 11-13-2015 08:49 AM
1. Top 64 on the current leaderboard.

2. I don't think you should exclude anyone from playing based on their location. But just like in the GST if it's excessive you get DQed.

3. All relatively easy things to accomplish. Making an extra spar arena level could take like.... 30 seconds. Trophy is the same, just copy the GST trophies, make it 1, put it in the main lobby and why shouldn't the gfx team be capable of whipping up 3 extra hats for an event? Doesn't seem like a big issue to me.

4. Idek if that's even a real problem. I've gotten summoned into the GST room every single time just fine and it seems like that hasn't been a big issue over time, why should it be now? I think I remember one incident where someone wasn't summoned with their team and the host fixed it right away.

5. It would be just as laggy as GST. I don't see how there would be any difference. Every GST I've been in has never been "out of this world holy **** what is happening" laggy.

David M. 11-13-2015 12:30 PM
Would you make an iDevice and Mixed tournement? Would some iDevs be allowed to enter Mixed? If you select top 64 for Mixed, how would the iDevs qualify?

TeK 11-13-2015 04:25 PM
Quote:
Posted by David M. (Post 632692)
Would you make an iDevice and Mixed tournement? Would some iDevs be allowed to enter Mixed? If you select top 64 for Mixed, how would the iDevs qualify?
Could be same as GST, top 32 (64 would prob be better though in this case because it's single players, not teams) from Mixed and top 64 from iDevice.

Crono 11-13-2015 04:47 PM
i think the solo leaderboard should be fixed to reflect the best and not the most active

when a scrub like me can log on and comfortably keep up or beat the top 20 you know something is wrong

fp4 11-13-2015 05:19 PM
We have some ideas for a tournament system of sorts, no guarantee though when they might come to fruition though.

There's nothing stopping you from organizing and hosting your own tournaments.

Comyt 11-13-2015 05:23 PM
Quote:
Posted by Crono (Post 632745)
i think the solo leaderboard should be fixed to reflect the best and not the most active

when a scrub like me can log on and comfortably keep up or beat the top 20 you know something is wrong
this. the current leaderboard sucks and in no way represents who is better than who. allowing people to participate based on their rankings on this leaderboard would exclude good players who don't care to spar often and include bad players who play a lot.

Crono 11-13-2015 05:27 PM
Quote:
Posted by Comyt (Post 632760)
this. the current leaderboard sucks and in no way represents who is better than who. allowing people to participate based on their rankings on this leaderboard would exclude good players who don't care to spar often and include bad players who play a lot.
i think going by leaderboard is a must, but not when the leaderboard is flawed

Zetectic 11-13-2015 05:43 PM
there are over 500 people wanting to participate.
now classic wants to be fair to all the players. so they won't chop out 436 people.

Quote:
Posted by fp4 (Post 632758)
We have some ideas for a tournament system of sorts, no guarantee though when they might come to fruition though.

There's nothing stopping you from organizing and hosting your own tournaments.
good to hear.
//its hard to organize a serious tournaments, cus lacking in prize n seriousness.
maybe u should host it for us. so feels like a real tourney lol

Rufus 11-13-2015 06:06 PM
fp4 and I recently discussed an integrated system for people to host their own [round robin style] spar leagues. It goes in rounds and at the end of each round a visual league table is generated based on points: 3 for a win, 1 for a draw, 0 for a loss. Everyone spars everyone in their own time and at the end of each league the person with the most points wins. Gralats required for entry to put into a winners pot, but also to hold people accountable for dropping out when they're losing.

This was aimed towards having sparring activity spread out throughout a season, and the ability to host your own would enable smaller groups to participate away from the 'better' people. I don't know if it would be open to everyone being able to saturate the system by starting their own league, or restricted to a few proactive individuals in the community who are interested in hosting. Perhaps an 'official' league can be hosted whilst non-participants of this are able to host their own. I don't know, it was just something that came up a few days ago.

But yes, the reason why a singles spar tournament hasn't been done before is because of numbers.

Nanner 11-13-2015 07:09 PM
What about event tournament :> :rolleyes:

TeK 11-13-2015 07:17 PM
Quote:
Posted by Rufus (Post 632773)
fp4 and I recently discussed an integrated system for people to host their own [round robin style] spar leagues. It goes in rounds and at the end of each round a visual league table is generated based on points: 3 for a win, 1 for a draw, 0 for a loss. Everyone spars everyone in their own time and at the end of each league the person with the most points wins. Gralats required for entry to put into a winners pot, but also to hold people accountable for dropping out when they're losing.

This was aimed towards having sparring activity spread out throughout a season, and the ability to host your own would enable smaller groups to participate away from the 'better' people. I don't know if it would be open to everyone being able to saturate the system by starting their own league, or restricted to a few proactive individuals in the community who are interested in hosting. Perhaps an 'official' league can be hosted whilst non-participants of this are able to host their own. I don't know, it was just something that came up a few days ago.

But yes, the reason why a singles spar tournament hasn't been done before is because of numbers.
Sounds like a great idea if you could make it work. Maybe it could have the options to choose from 1v1 to 5v5 leagues? Only downside to that I see is that the higher you go the harder it is to schedule matches, I think at least 2v2 would work fine though.

Aguzo 11-13-2015 07:43 PM


Doesn't have to be a command @ruffnut, it can be in the menus.

Win enough rank up. Lose enough de-rank.
Beat a league higher than you gain more points.
Lose to a league lower than you, lose a lot of points.

I personally like this type of system, and it works great for matchmaking.
These are a few images of Vainglory.

http://i.imgur.com/sHdcnJy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Xop2FlN.jpg

GOAT 11-13-2015 08:14 PM
I'm tired of these desperate grown men whining about more ego boosting activities. Fp4, how much will you charge me to host a tournament for these nubs. 64 man tournament and we can use aguzos legendary list to pick the participants :D

Rufus 11-13-2015 08:28 PM
Quote:
Posted by Aguzo (Post 632790)
post
???

What has this got to do with anything posted here?

Fulgore 11-13-2015 08:53 PM
Quote:
Posted by GOAT (Post 632805)
I'm tired of these desperate grown men whining about more ego boosting activities. Fp4, how much will you charge me to host a tournament for these nubs. 64 man tournament and we can use aguzos legendary list to pick the participants :D
Boycotting the list

Brett 11-13-2015 09:26 PM
Sounds good/fun as long as the time between matches isn't a week or something

Aguzo 11-13-2015 09:57 PM
Quote:
Posted by Rufus (Post 632807)
???

What has this got to do with anything posted here?
A system in which you can actually tell who is good and who isn't.

Where your rank actually depends on your skill.

Therefore the top people are allowed to participate in the tournament.

Thallen 11-13-2015 10:10 PM
another hijacked thread where people can push their ****ty leaderboard concepts which will do nothing but allow me to spar 10 times per month and idle between rank 1-3 for the entire season
sounds great for the game and will surely bring activity to sparring, let's do it

"we should have a wins leaderboard" say the people in this thread complaining about the current leaderboard not reflecting skill
it's pathetic to see some people so desperate for validation that they only support ideas which narrowly benefit themselves

at least Aguzo actually outlines an idea that isn't directly in his own interest and at his own benefit (it's still stupid though)
anyway, yeah, a singles tournament should have been done a long time ago

people already do host their own tournaments, like CrimeWatcher's, it's just that no one really cares about them (no offense) unless it's official and managed by the game itself
everyone wants attention and rewards

Aguzo 11-13-2015 10:42 PM
Quote:
Posted by Thallen (Post 632843)
spar 10 times per month and idle between rank 1-3 for the entire season
Not if you drop a lot of points for not being active. Plus a reward for playing a few matches a day would certainly give people a reason to play every day.
For example, Vainglory gives glory points for winning a match each day, plus 3 matches, and for winning a match each day for a whole week.

If you add major payouts to the top players at the end of the season, then people won't idle.

Quote:
Posted by Thallen (Post 632843)
"we should have a wins leaderboard" say the people in this thread complaining about the current leaderboard not reflecting skill
it's pathetic to see some people so desperate for validation that they only support ideas which narrowly benefit themselves
A wins leaderboard isn't great, but I have supported it due to the fact that pkers get their own list, while sparrers don't. A lot of people say they don't feel like sparring(including me), because getting a lot of wins won't do anything. You won't get to keep a record, basically all for nothing.

I'd rather have it on the side though, and have an actual ranking system as the main page. (WITH BOTH PC AND iDEV COMBINED)

Thallen 11-13-2015 10:47 PM
Quote:
Posted by Aguzo (Post 632851)
Not if you drop a lot of points for not being active. Plus a reward for playing a few matches a day would certainly give people a reason to play every day.

If you add major payouts to the top players at the end of the season, then people won't idle.
yeah, I get it, both are good ideas
I still think the thing you're outlining is way too much for something as simple and casual as sparring

I don't want to be queuing into private spars and stuff like that, I just wanna chill and sit around and talk to people and spar like we've done for the past million years
that's just my personal preference, but if I had the choice between a flat wins leaderboard or what you're suggesting, I'd take what you're suggesting any day

the leaderboard can 100% be improved by implementing stuff like that, or even going as simple as taking the current one and breaking it down as daily/monthly/seasonal
the only reason it was ever changed was to stop people from constantly abusing that stupid points glitch and because camping was way too easy

Zetectic 11-14-2015 01:18 AM
heres the problem.

too high playercount for single spar tourney.
too low playercount for tier concept.

if we apply the tier concept, it will die out after awhile, majority players are gonna be in the diamond league, they'll face same people over and over. they'll eventually get bored and quit, then they'll come back and start spamming things like: #dissux #burnagugo.

if we host a spar tourney. complaints gonna increase by 3x. vpns, hack, lag, delay, alt accts etc and noobs gonna cry like this: 'omfg why mi no in. i can beat zetetik -.-; cmon ffff dis game.'

Areo 11-14-2015 01:26 AM
Quote:
Posted by Zetectic (Post 632921)
if we host a spar tourney. complaints gonna increase by 3x. vpns, hack, lag, delay, alt accts etc and noobs gonna cry like this: 'omfg why mi no in. i can beat zetetik -.-; cmon ffff dis game.'
Rufus outlined a round robin style tournament, where you can invite whom you want to spar and can leave out who you want. Besides, the complaints won't increase, or minimally so. Those who are complaining now will continue, those who aren't won't start. Except for maybe the first few weeks, but every update/content addition is scrutinized early on.

Thallen 11-14-2015 01:35 AM
Quote:
Posted by Zetectic (Post 632921)
too high playercount for single spar tourney.
I don't really see how
Just announce it the season before that next season the top 64/32 leaderboard sparrers will be accepted, just like the GST
I'm sure it'd be even easier than hosting the GST

They'd only have to amend the GST bracketing system script, I know it wouldn't take too long to do that
It's probably just a matter of someone not having the time/desire to host it and everyone else being too uncoordinated to do it properly

Zetectic 11-14-2015 02:00 AM
Quote:
Posted by Thallen (Post 632926)
I don't really see how
Just announce it the season before that next season the top 64/32 leaderboard sparrers will be accepted, just like the GST
Same exact number of matches, just dealing with a lot less people

I'm sure it's the easiest thing in the world for them to script, just amending the bracketing system they use for the GST
It's probably just a matter of someone not having the time/desire to host it and everyone else being too stupid or uncoordinated to do it
o... idk man then we could see some good sparrers being active again.

i just had the current leaderboard image in my head. where the top 64 weren't exactly the best sparrers to compete against. they are active, but not hardest to beat.

p.s. i have a feeling that someones gonna win every season -.-;;;; alumnization

Thallen 11-14-2015 02:03 AM
Well yeah, there's no reason to be ranked high on the leaderboard
I know a lot of people aren't very active right now because the lag kind of made sparring a lot less enjoyable

I'd personally get more active if the leaderboard regulated singles tournament seeding... I know Brett, David, Dante, Eko, many others would, there's just no reason to right now

Seems like a win all around to me - the better sparrers get active again, sparring throughout an entire season is more fun and competitive, the best and most active sparrers get a tournament, etc.

Aguzo 11-14-2015 02:04 AM
Quote:
Posted by Zetectic (Post 632921)
too high playercount for single spar tourney.
too low playercount for tier concept.
There are enough people for it. Plus, like I said, I'm sure they can make everyone who isn't participating get d/c. They can watch it on twitch.

I made a list a few months ago based on the that day's active sparrers. There are enough people for it. Plus, there is a casual option, for those who just want to spar for fun without worrying about dropping their rank. Still though, people would still try to get their ranks up. That is if you want to get the bigger payouts at the end of the season.


Quote:
Posted by Zetectic (Post 632921)
if we apply the tier concept, it will die out after awhile, majority players are gonna be in the diamond league, they'll face same people over and over. they'll eventually get bored and quit, then they'll come back and start spamming things like: #dissux #burnagugo.
Why would they get bored? Is it fun to face nubs? I'd rather face good people than fight a bunch of randoms... either way spar is currently boring, because there is none of the following:

Division of skill (actual rankings)
Notability for those who put a lot of time into it (All-Time Wins)
Prizes for getting certain amount of wins (Spar tokens shop or whatever it can be)
The fear of losing to good people (Losses/Ratio making people selective spar)
etc

By all means, blame me if something like this happens. But doing nothing won't help either. I see that there are enough people.

Here is the list from a while back, not sure if those people are currently sparring.
Spoiler
NOTICE: Do not be offended by this list, it's just an example. Does not mean you aren't a higher tier than the tier you were put in.

Legendary: Brett, Thallen, Jack, Primetime, Winter, Dante, Majin, Sarah, Abood, Kevin, David, Zid, Sean, Contego, Abel, PK, Male, Demrow, Aserus, Yui, Precise, Exalt, Noss, Smoke, Clops, Mk, Quiondre, Sol, T3ck, Aarian, Rufus, Kevin91, Shiden (Still finding more, but a lot still missing/off for a few days, est. 25-50)

Diamond: Chun, Max, Wick, Yami, Ange, Mikva, Mau5, Tucker, Rainmaker, Arionna, Fulgore, John, Tykian, Mish, Koi, Skull, John, Zetectic, YD, Witch, Bob, Rex, Kaois, Crimewatcher, Kinzo, Luffy, Gambit, Cheesy, Junscen, Livid, Bradd, Nixon, Death, Deus, Carly, Advocate, Lr, Kouji, vEagle, Falcon, Dark, Haze, Qes, Hmong, Fro, Baddy King, Roxas, Mex, Inco, Jiggy, Bull, Klay, Phios, Meth, Mood, Bomit, Kuya, iJesus, Padma, Marcus A, Alex R, Gator, Azrey, Tom, Alex K, SpongeBozz, Xoss, Domi, Realm (Still finding more, est.50-100)

Gold: Red, Soren, Hitoru, Droid, Blaze, Danny, Striken, Korin, Sharp, Toni, Sinatra, Squiggles, Jason, Nattie, David m, Slayer, Ezio, Call, Flash, Snow, Joker, Void, Lia, Goten, Ale, Michael, S****, Prince, Roxy, Den, Intimidation, Papi, Uranus, Neptune, Elesis, 3xcite, DoubleLift, Sergio, Xion, Roller, Sugar, Memo, Jimbo, Kuz, Bobby, Inspector, Jojo, Edin, Silver, Savant, Dumoose, Nick, Savage, ScarFaze, Acqua, Volkan, Saber, Lucci, Magnus, Lia, Chase (Still finding more, I have been inactive, and I don't know 80% of the spar community, est. 100-250)

Silver: Tatsumi, Yukiteru, Betsey, Gambit, Tenchu, Taka, Shoti, Blivian Knight, Pyro, Genesis, Fluffy, Spadz, Liquid, Ltrika, Nicolas, Bear, Sar, Erick, Ray, Running Fart, any average Decent - Potential Sparrers (Estimated 500-700)

Bronze: Butterfly Hunter Brittney, Silus, Sod Pop, Rabbit New to the game - Almost Decent (Rest of the community)

Copper: Aguzo

Zetectic 11-14-2015 02:32 AM
Quote:
Posted by Aguzo (Post 632932)
There are enough people for it. Plus, like I said, I'm sure they can make everyone who isn't participating get d/c. They can watch it on twitch.

I made a list a few months ago based on the that day's active sparrers. There are enough people for it. Plus, there is a casual option, for those who just want to spar for fun without worrying about dropping their rank. Still though, people would still try to get their ranks up. That is if you want to get the bigger payouts at the end of the season.

Why would they get bored? Is it fun to face nubs? I'd rather face good people than fight a bunch of randoms... either way spar is currently boring
now im confused. is this tier concept replacing the sst or is it replacing the current leaderboard?
why would u want people to get d/c? stop frkin promoting ur twitch, u frkin inactive livestreamer. -.-;;
btw the most people in the spar arena today was ~50.

Aguzo 11-14-2015 02:49 AM
Quote:
Posted by Zetectic (Post 632939)
now im confused. is this tier concept replacing the sst or is it replacing the current leaderboard?
why would u want people to get d/c? stop frkin promoting ur twitch, u frkin inactive livestreamer. -.-;;
btw the most people in the spar arena today was ~50.
I'm not even promoting my twitch account.

I'm saying if the lag is a problem, an easy fix is to have only the people participating be online, and everyone else can watch the tourney on an official ToonSlab stream.

Fulgore 11-14-2015 02:53 AM
They won't ever prevent people from being online aside from maintenence.

James205 11-14-2015 02:58 AM
Quote:
Posted by Crono (Post 632745)
i think the solo leaderboard should be fixed to reflect the best and not the most active

when a scrub like me can log on and comfortably keep up or beat the top 20 you know something is wrong
you're just jealous I'm #1

as for the concept I'm down for it and when I came back I was surprised there was no 1v1 tourneys... and I've been thinking about organizing my own.

Aguzo 11-14-2015 03:06 AM
Quote:
Posted by Fulgore (Post 632942)
They won't ever prevent people from being online aside from maintenence.
Why not? Imagine 4k people on twitch just to watch graal.

Would make graal more popular.

I can already picture the chat.
http://i.imgur.com/Iz7oVxm.png

Zetectic 11-14-2015 03:26 AM
Quote:
Posted by Aguzo (Post 632947)
Why not? Imagine 4k people on twitch just to watch graal.

Would make graal more popular.

I can already picture the chat.
http://i.imgur.com/Iz7oVxm.png
dear ramen noodle afro -
thats what u think. i used to think that way too....
the reality hit me hard man...
now i live in a world..

Quote:
Posted by James205 (Post 632944)
as for the concept I'm down for it and when I came back I was surprised there was no 1v1 tourneys... and I've been thinking about organizing my own.
do it. ill be the third camera guy.

Comyt 11-14-2015 08:04 AM
how to make a thread go from decent to disgusting in one page featuring aguzo and thallen

Crono 11-14-2015 08:10 AM
Quote:
Posted by Thallen (Post 632843)
another hijacked thread where people can push their ****ty leaderboard concepts which will do nothing but allow me to spar 10 times per month and idle between rank 1-3 for the entire season
sounds great for the game and will surely bring activity to sparring, let's do it

"we should have a wins leaderboard" say the people in this thread complaining about the current leaderboard not reflecting skill
it's pathetic to see some people so desperate for validation that they only support ideas which narrowly benefit themselves

at least Aguzo actually outlines an idea that isn't directly in his own interest and at his own benefit (it's still stupid though)
anyway, yeah, a singles tournament should have been done a long time ago

people already do host their own tournaments, like CrimeWatcher's, it's just that no one really cares about them (no offense) unless it's official and managed by the game itself
everyone wants attention and rewards
r u tryin to fight me rn

Thallen 11-14-2015 09:11 AM
nah, I know you're not one of these idiots trying to turn the spar leaderboard into a flat wins leaderboard

Crono 11-14-2015 11:31 AM
Quote:
Posted by Thallen (Post 633004)
nah, I know you're not one of these idiots trying to turn the spar leaderboard into a flat wins leaderboard
...didnt even kno people wanted that. pretty silly

Red 12-01-2015 01:22 AM
bump

Thallen 12-01-2015 01:28 AM
Pretty sure the leaderboard resets in like 12 hours or so
Qualify the top 8 from each leaderboard so it's fast and painless, just to give it a test run

You wouldn't even need to script anything, could make the brackets manually if it's that small
Give me temporary powers to summon people and I'll host it

Aguzo 12-01-2015 03:13 AM
Can't wait to win singles :)

Skull11 12-01-2015 07:45 PM
I would personally love to have more sparring tournaments! Would make the sparring community much more active and I would rather have an admin hosted type of gst tournament over just random people hosting it

Brett 12-02-2015 12:09 AM
I don't wanna see an Aguzo statue outside of the mixed room....

Red 12-02-2015 12:12 AM
Quote:
Posted by Brett (Post 639644)
I don't wanna see an Aguzo statue outside of the mixed room....
I'd rather have a qes statue

Aguzo 12-02-2015 02:20 AM
Quote:
Posted by Brett (Post 639644)
I don't wanna see an Aguzo statue outside of the mixed room....
Get ready to polish it.

David 12-02-2015 04:39 AM
Quote:
Posted by Brett (Post 639644)
I don't wanna see an Aguzo statue outside of the mixed room....
I wouldn't worry

Aguzo 12-02-2015 09:20 AM
Quote:
Posted by David (Post 639735)
I wouldn't worry
Wax on, wax off daffy. Better start practicing.

http://www.sohappyhome.com/wordpress...ate-kid-84.jpg


You too Brett.

http://www.eonline.com/eol_images/En....jl.080515.jpg

Brett 12-05-2015 02:13 AM
Would host if possible too. Even a statue as a prize would be a start, something's better than nothing. Would be nice for the spar community.

5k 1st
4k 2nd
3k 3rd

or some small gralat reward seems reasonable too

Brett 12-24-2015 03:17 AM
Bumping to keep this alive

Aguzo 12-24-2015 04:27 AM
You really want to lose nikki?


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