The 2 worst chokepoints in towering
 

This will probably be a long/boring read, but try not to throw your reply in without actually reading and understanding.

I've towered for a little while, and I feel like there are two really frustrating things about two of the most active towers. I'll probably tower again soon, and I've wanted to post this for a while but just haven't gotten around to it.

I'll go ahead and talk about good towers first.

Snow: Although it's one of those "spawn-at-the-flag" towers, this is probably the single best regroup tower. A good guild can rush in and take it in seconds, and there are multiple different paths leading to the flag, as well as wide doorways. It's very difficult for one person to block the hallway chokepoint after skating was removed.
Castle: Castle might be the most balanced in respect to the positioning of chokepoints, spawn positions, etc. There is one single chokepoint at this tower, and there is an automated script that prevents it from being blocked and rendering the tower unbreakable.
York: There are three ways to get to the flag, lots of different strategic options, and the flag's health is low, as it should be, with regard to the spawn point being so close to the flag.

Okay, so here are my two problems.

MoD
http://i.imgur.com/X3r1rZl.png

MoD is the only tower where the holding guild spawns at a point that I'd consider to be a disadvantage. While they do spawn nearer to the flag room, this single stairway chokepoint is enables one single person to do the work that would require 3-5 people at other towers.

Obviously you have the option of going around to the bottom stairs, but again, the point of the spawn is (at every other tower) to give the guild holding the tower an advantage. Going all the way around makes it a huge disadvantage.

One person shouldn't be able to cause such a problem. The solution I'd suggest is to widen this staircase by a tile on both sides.

Sardon's
http://i.imgur.com/YZIAib1.png

Yes, I can sense your blood pressure rising already.

As someone who has led four very fast and successful guilds at Sardon's, I can say with 100% certainty that this chokepoint is just broken. This is the "guild reset" chokepoint. This is the spot where one single person can stand and defend against 5-6 people. You don't even have to swing your sword. In most instances, the spikes will do the PKing for you.
This chokepoint frustrates people so much that they pretend others are lag blocking when they make use of it. Guilds have probably been reset just for standing in this doorway and staff misunderstanding it as "lag blocking."

Sardon's is the only single-path tower in the game. The halls are incredibly easy to defend and there's another chokepoint there. One should be enough. You have to be genuinely bad to lose Sardon's if your guild makes use of sub guilds, the hallway chokepoint, and this chokepoint. A guild of four people can honestly defend against a dozen attackers if you do this properly. In four guilds, I think I can recall losing this tower a single time while I've been online. It probably shouldn't be so easy.

Either this door needs to be widened by a tile on both sides, or the script from Castle that prevents blocking the flag room door needs to be added here.

TL;DR: A single person can control MoD due to a poor chokepoint (as long as the attacking guild has a brain).
A single person can control Sardon's due to a poor chokepoint (as long as the defending guild has a brain).

Pretty good one. They should make the two entrances and higher the flag HP.

Yeah that one MoD stair is really annoying, but thats why MoD is used for PKing a lot, there aren't any good tower guilds that home MoD.

+rep

@Sards Admins should make a warp point on that door=Blocking for 3-5 secs= warped outside the tower.

Ya, I imagine someone like Michael would probably not support this idea (being someone who does not care about towering rather than PKing), but I honestly don't think it'd harm the PKing activity at MoD at all.

I think people PK there because it's very accessible and you can get to other people so quickly. I don't think the change would make it easy to "home" the tower either, but I do think it would make the PKing around the stair area a lot less cluttered. I dunno if that would upset PKers or not.

Well, there aren't many ideas to fix that stair...

As a pker, it gets annoying when players tend to block staircases to get an advantage and it just clogs up the area. Barely any space to move and you're hit at all directions once that occurs. Any fort that has a path leading to flag, guilds tend to initiate a blocking strategy. Most commonly the ones mentioned in OP and also Deadwood. I wish they fix the glitch that Castle has at the stairs, if it is I don't notice it at all.




Mod Suggestion: Make 2 staircases instead of 1.

They just should make warp points on stairs, like if you stay 5seconds, you gonna get warped outside.

Well, prob would make more lag...

MoD: Honestly, it really is frustrating when youre defending with few people and some salty douche bag decides to block the top stairs.

Instead of widening those stairs, I would agree to there being 2 sets of stairs on the top, mirroring the bottom.

Sardon's: I agree the bottom door should be widened just like the other was.

I think the upper mod stairs should be widened at least by two tiles. Widening them by four would be the best because it changes the choke to be the two corners of the raised platform and, by moving the chokes, it shifts some of the cluster**** sword spam that ends up happening right by the stairs up.

Edit:
Ignore the fact that the tileset is wrong I didn't feel like changing it.
http://puu.sh/hLjbE/12077647dc.png

It's more practical to defend at those edges with a wider staircase. Clears **** up, gives a small buff to the defending guild because they don't have to run as far.

Yo what about swamp and DW the things Yall mentioned apply to those two too.

Ps I really appreciate this being brought up, and that thallen is the one bringing it up.

because both of those towers already have large flagroom doors...

Imprints post: Id rather not see the stairs blown 3x wider, but have 2 sets of stairs in the same position as the bottom two stairs..

Agree with OP. Something should be done to DW as well as it's filled chokepoints.
Also, adding another staircase at MoD wouldn't prevent two players to block it for the sake of taking the tower. So widening the staircase would remove the disadvantage from defenders.

I didn't mention DW or Swamp because they've got two paths to the flag. It's still pretty frustrating to have the staircases blocked at those towers, but at least it requires some form of guild coordination to have two players blocking at once.

If you look at Sardon's, the entire tower is a single pathway. At MoD, you can go around the top staircase, but going all the way around completely removes the spawn point advantage that the defending guild should have. I don't think chokes are bad, but when a single person can prevent an entire guild from making an attack it just sucks.

Great idea that the Sards staircase should be widened!

Can people still stand in a staircase and be in guild chat to increase invincibility time? Everyone does that.

Not sure, I've only played on PC. You can just AFK in the doorway and use your full blink invincibility though, and most people will call it a lag block and spam report you out of frustration. I know people that have been banned for it, etc. It's just a toxic chokepoint in general.

Yes, opening chat boxes still halves your framerate.

Reason number 1,497 why Graal the Adventure is superior.

http://classicgraal.net/forums/index...tach=101;image

http://classicgraal.net/forums/index...tach=103;image

http://classicgraal.net/forums/index...tach=101;image

@Basi, that would be ideal for the inside but the outside look would be fine how it is.

I am not one to judge anyone's levels but this is currently what is being planned for Graal the Adventure's MoD Fort makeover.

looks very nice. But Classic's version of MoD is more known for its narrow passages.

I prefer those staircases that are facing vertical for Mod Fort in that picture

I would really like to see my old system trial tested at MoD now that there are actually players, with the choke point intact (you'll need it if you stand a chance at winning).

I'd like Sardon's Tower to become a quest again, maybe with towering still intact because there was really nothing on the roof before anyway. The layout of the guild towering section would just have to account for the layout of the quest so it isn't so weird to see both at the same time.

It could honestly be widened by half that size and be fixed, just a 4×4 staircase would be plenty of an improvement

If it's fun,Classic ain't having it.

#thisisaBAIT

It's still possible for 1 person to block a 4-tile stair. Only more difficult because you can be knocked around. But if there were then it would be impossible for a single person to block, without having a huge 6x staircase.

Really informative, well done. I'll be reading this when I go back to towering again.

Bumping this because it should be done, especially at Sardon's. I find it to be pretty ridiculous that you can be warped, banned, or even have your guild reset for standing in a doorway. It makes towering at Sardon's, which is already dumb easy, advantageous for guilds that have admins on their roster.
Soren is constantly using his influence as an admin to determine who holds that tower. It wouldn't be possible if you'd just widen the door.

how so? warp anyone who attacks?

Whoa, it's kind of strange how you know exactly what he did! It's as if you were a member of the guild or something...

Lucky guess, don't know how you would know the details even better than myself. But if it was true which I don't know, wouldnt it be better off just banning anyone who attacks in that case? Or just resetting every other competing guild?

I think only Xor* can reset guilds. And no, Soren knows that bans are monitored and saved in logs so if he banned without reason he'd get fired immediately.

Very nice ideas, I think the MoD stairs should be kept the same though, even a small defensive buff to the last active tower would make me a very sad panda :(

Sardons insanely good defensive ability is what makes it Sardons. So stop.

I do agree on MoD.

Changes were made to the doors at Sardon's since I made this post, so I appreciate that

of all the people who would disagree with this idea, --Kendama. wait wat...

nerfing the towers? Sardons has been a chokehold, very defensive advantageous tower since it came out.

Only lost sards once? :O

Quick, everyone go to sards flag room and log off. Log back on when I give the word ;)

Didn't know, and I don't see why that makes it automatically the right course of action. Admins have made plenty of mistakes, and in my opinion this would be another one of those.