Is there a reason for why trading would be bad?
 

Hey guys, its been awhile since I have messed around on classic. While I was on exploring and checking out the most recent additions I just wondered if there was a reason why trading does not yet exist on iClassic.

Obviously the ability to create a trading system exist, and we can see and even model our trading off of games like Tf2 and other MMOs. (Where the results are very effective and add a whole new layer to the gaming community. Figuring iClassic is a very social game I feel as if it would go very well.)

Like most people I just think it would be cool to sell, trade, and give items such as hats, furniture, gralats, and even loot to my friends.

Maybe I am overlooking a big detail, I honestly don't think the reason would be scamming (and with a proper trade system it would be very difficult to get scammed), so feel free to enlighten me or help change my opinion.

That is cool but does not answer my question on why trading would be a bad idea. That post is just people saying they are for or against trading.

(people may be annoyed by scrubs asking for trades but that is not a reasonable argument as they can be blocked or set to friends pm only)

There seems to be plausible reason against trading that i can think of, like seriously most games and graal servers have a trading system..

You trade items that are meant to be "rare" and then they wont be rare anymore. Like reselling. And instead of "you had to be online in 2010 to get this item" it would be "a noob can get this item when joining a day ago"

I'm confused: why would you trade with someone who joined in a day? What notable items would they even have? And why would you give them a 2010 hat?

^^^^

There has to be a major detail or flaw in the system that we are all overlooking.

Does Classic need it?

This. How necessary is it to trade? Guild hats would become worthless and mean nothing, scamming everywhere, and you could make 100s of noob accounts and trade the money over to your main.

I can name about 50 reasons, but I know it'll be a waste of time.

One of the main ones that you can consider is how easy it would be to manipulate. What would you be able to trade? Items? Are you wanting staff to make special exceptions for GST or event items? Seasonal items? Hats? What about GST hats? Tower hats? Seasonal hats? If no to all of them, then's the point? If yes:

• I can manipulate the rewards system in towering by giving many to noob accounts to trade later
• I can turn the GST into a boring joke (more than already)
• I am no longer excited for seasonal events, and the little excitement they provide anyway, because I can just get everything at a later time

And so on, etc.

The only purpose I see a trading system would serve is to give players things they don't deserve. I feel like the integrity of towers, spars, and seasonal stuff should remain limited to the people who were actually a part of it. If not, they end up losing all meaning and it becomes boring as hell.

The three main reasons I see the most for no trade systems are: the Rarity of an item will drop, that items given at a special event should only be given to the players who were apart of that event and that there is no monetary gain when using the trade system.

For the first two reasons. It's the player's choice if he/she wants to trade that item, nobody else's. In case you're worried that's its rarity will go down let's use a 1k has an example. 25 people get the hat 1 person decides to give their hat to another person. How many hats are there now? Still 25. Now if it's an old 1k most people are zealous about those hats and will probably not be traded. Now let's take a look at a nexus item. Let's say a person bought an item from nexus and does not need it or really care for it anymore. Now a friend comes and ask if he/she can have that item, why would someone not give that item to a friend? Because somebody said that the friend was not on for nexus so therefore they do not deserve it?

For monetary values why not make the trade system cost $1 from the shop. Kinda like you would have to do for gh/ character slots. Or you could just charge 50 gralats to use it.

Well we have already a scam free easter egg trade system theirs no scamming in that

We could use that idea!

Also it would kinda be nice for some players who quit to give their items to their friend

An issue though is the rich noobs will get anything because they will probaly pay you 100k for your 2010 morph.


rarity will no longuer be a thing and the game will suck

Is there a reason for why trading would be bad?
 

Guild hats wouldn't be tradable, and I know on other severs you can't trade over the same IP.

Yeah but its the easiest thing to have someone help you trade

Not for Classic, no.

lol how about we read the whole post!! i said it is easy to trade for other servers. classic obviously has no trading...

The only thing I can think of that's tradable is loot or bugs.

Not true, players would often complain about being scammed with trading gralats/ farming... etc for eggs.

Oh so you guys want the scams to continue until it worsens?

Most hats would lose the prestige that comes along with wearing them, such as the 6k spar win hat from around 2010 it would become tradeable and lose its special value.

Trading a single item for another (like trade tables) would be very cool. Guild hats would become more of something like a currency and yes the ****ty unethical guild leaders that exist in modern graal would abuse it to the leaders advantage (and not to the guild members, like thallen said).

I personally think it would only boost the sales and gralat packs people purchase. (people would want to always be grabbing things because they will be rare later to be traded). Unixmad obviously doesn't think so.

It would be cool yes very cool and give classic more stuff to do. But yknow... what control do we have over the owners decisions?

I don't understand this logic. I can't really picture too many people trading very valuable items and hats for easy to obtain ****.

The real question is: Does grall have anything other than furniture that is worth trading?

Rarity would not be an issue... if you are 'trading' and not 'copying' the item would still be rare, but an item's origin and/or significance might be lost after being traded a few times to people who don't recognize it...

But then again, I see noob accounts running around with the yeti morph or that giant bee costume from time to time... accounts with less than 100 hours which seem to have been created/identified from an older account and/or hacked up some random old items... so what's the difference? A legit, limited trading function could be beneficial.

I want to go on to write about another system here, but I will post it in the future updates area instead. Cheers guys.

Zone can't trade Squad Hats.

Many people like hats, as for me, i would be interested in the morphs and some of the ganis definetely. I really always wanted levitate

If we ever get around to implementing player-to-player commerce it would only allow items that have value and a name attached to them.

Things like GST hats/belts, towering hats and the like that are not sold through a shop wouldn't be able to be traded.

It would be great.
Old mounts, holiday stuff.
Dragon Morphs. You know?

I think we can all agree trading is a cool idea we all want but we dont really see how this changes iclassic it just wont be the same anymore people constantly buy gralat packs for that nexus that in this week so in a year they can start bragging they have that cool morph and the other player doesnt.
Here items can easily be obtained through a random rich noob buying 500k worth of gralats and trading them in for what is concidered to be pretty rare like the first vip or something like that.

Therefore you can get pretty much anything with gralat packs therefore this game no longuer lets Normal players who dont spend 500$ a day on the game to enjoy it.

Simple fix, make certain items so they are unable to be traded.

You can't be scammed if the trade system is done properly.

I honestly think it is just laziness or the unwillingness to begin a trading system.
Also how would trading make items less rare? Many games with trading systems still have rare items. Lets say x amount of people buy a hat before it is removed from a shop. You can't gain anymore than x amount of hats because it can no longer be purchased. Therefor the amount of hats in the game can still only decrease as players will quit. Rarity is not an issue. (and who cares if a few noobs are lucky enough to get their hands on an item. So what, stop whining.)

All of these problems have simple fixes like soul bounding (for quest items and special items like tower hats, GST, and certain event items), fair trade systems, (allow both parties to confirm this is what they are trading and what they are receiving.), any other arguments are invalid.

A trade system would work.

Re-think this, a trade system would give everyone opportunity. You still need money to buy items with, or without a trade system.

But... guild hats ARE worthless and they mean absolutely nothing. As for scamming, that's partly buyer beware and also dependant on what systems are put in place to help prevent scams.

Features that are currently locked to identified accounts are the primary reason why this should never be done on Classic ie. pyrat quest, holidays events like Halloween, Christmas, etc. I was open to the idea [of something like this] while I was an active member of staff, we even have a large part of it scripted, but I have completely changed my mind. There is potential for negative effects on the community, a good example of this is how bastardized Christmas has become, and Classic has done fine in its 5 years without it.

There is no laziness or 'unwillingness to start' the project, there are just other things that should and will be explored.

Trading would pretty much couse desaster , the amount of scams would be raised by a lot , new trading monitor staff would probably have to be hired which is quite a pointless role that people would get bored of just sitting in trading room all day... Admins would be spammed with scam and fake scam occupations :/ there's really no point in a trading system in graal as hats would have unknown values

I want to transfer all my items to my main account.

Guild hats are not worthless , they are far harder to obtain than most of the hats on classic , they take time dedication and in some cases luck to get so I dought they would be worthless if a trading system was put in place

A system to stop scam is not really possible unless u have a admin looking at trades 24/7 , a warning system to be aware of scammers would also not be that affective as graal zone has it and trust me it's still very easy to scam

If Both accounts are identified they won't let you infortunatlh ... I had a acc with 100k pks and they said I cant merge the accounts as they are both identified.

Bad things could happen, but then again good things can also, at least a trial would be worth a try.

Even if the system is "fool proof", you cannot stop players from making their own "off the system" deals/ scams. For example, lets say the system is similar to that of the Easter egg one, i.e one to one and both players have to agree to the terms before the deal is made. You still cannot stop a player from making their off the system deal of say including his "whole farm" or his "superz kool guild that has 20 tower hours" and then the other player gets scammed.

that's happening either way so that's no excuse.

The idea isn't to help make scamming that easy for players (readily available) , with a trade system although some will use it legitimately, there would be a lot more trying to abuse it, i.e identifying, easter, Christmas presents... etc.

I might not be understanding you.

In a trade system where both parties select what object they wish to trade and then get to see what the other party has offered (and maybe even description ect) before accepting or declining. In what ways will people get scammed?

As far as I am concerned you can't get scammed with a system like this because you looked over everything and said it was correct.


Aside:
Also I don't see the problem in people trading items to their main accounts as long as the items were acquired legitimately. Also this couldn't be abused because certain items (quest items, exclusive items, holiday, etc) would be soul bound so they could not be traded.

Kimda, loot and bugs would work, but not even that's or shush, like not mounts or VIP

Trade of any kind is really horrible in my opinion and I never thought of this before I actually played Classic and went through 2-3 Christmas, Easter egg event.

Yes, you are right it involves the whole community to participate and do something that would be helpful to each other. However, negative side of this or the reality is, most people abuse this whole trading-alike systems. Such as scamming as many of you mentioned, but I also see fake friends just come to me beg for gift/eggs. I mean it's ridiculous and even myself, when it comes around the Christmas I expected some gifts from my friends cause they can gift me. If there's no option for trading/gifting, this game won't get corrupted.

I totally agree what Rufus said up there, Classic had done fine for five years without it. Just look at other games like Runescape that's been out for 10 years. Their economy is so messed up right now. Armors are extremely cheap, consumable items/rare items are outrageously high in price. If Classic allows trading, Classic will be like Runescape. Classic has a lot of rare hats.

thats the guy who got scammed fault
he should just trade items for items nothing else.

you guys are just afraid of trying something new and ading some spice to this game

They don't want to be disturbed by this sort of things.

When Graal is as successful as Runescape I will accept this.

The only thing worth trading, is money. An option to donate gralats or transfer gralats would be great. I sometimes want to help a nub out when they beg for money to buy a horse that's only 2.5k... I feel like farming for them, but so lazy. I'd rather donate gralats by transfering them in some way. Please add this to graal.

make it so non identified acounts cannot donate to other players so their wont be any boosting in that

If money is tradable, I can do pyrat quest on my main and alts and transfer all my money on to my main.
If money is tradable, people are gonna make a thread saying why can't we trade our hats and items?
If money is tradable, we are gonna have beggers all day and night asking for gralats, and scams.
If money is tradable, we are gonna have bunch of fake friends, and possibly gralats go around on whoever's birthday.

Instead of giving away free money, encourage them to do pyrat quest. I have a real life friend did what I told her to do and she has like 40k right now.

Staff can make an trade blocked for same ip accounts.
Hats and items are not worth trading, especially when I worked hard to get them.
No? You decide whether you want to give someone money or not, if I donate money I'm not expecting anything in return.

If staffs block the same ip address for trading - then people would be complaining how they can't give their money to brother or sister.

hats and items are not worth trading? I am not sure if I interrupt this sentence correctly, but money-wise, old people wants to sell some of their old items for more money and newer people wants to buy old items for high price.

Yes, you have full control of ur decision. Aguzo I can see you helping out noobs. That's really great, but as soon as money is tradable. The value of money will drain insanely and people are going to beg/scam/do whatever it takes them to get more money. Money thirsty community.
You don't have to expect anything in return, but they will. They want more free stuff. More easy money.

It's not you I am talking about, it's those people who beg around during the Christmas for gifts. They will do the same.

If I said it once, I probably said this 100th times. Runescape is so much ahead of trading system. I always see people asking for money.

Allowing any kind of trading is horrible. They earn their own money. There's easy way (pyrat quest). Graal made it for you.
There's plenty of reason why this shouldn't be added rather than it should be.



If this game allows trading, you can expect few things to happen
- Feedback and Report section will be full stories of scam, hack and full of corruption. Classic has to hire more volunteered Graal Polices.
- Appearance of Chinese Farmers and illegal trading websites (if this games gets really big). Then Classic has to read more ban appeals.
- Value of the gralats decreases. Then Classic will just make items more expensive.
- Tower hats, GST hats, Event hats, people will try to buy them with gralats. Full of explosion of corrupted community.