Serious discussion time, APR nerf, was it enough?
 

Alright time for a discussion thread. Since everyone on the in game forums just exploded when these were nerfed and asking for refunds being the greedy dicks they are. I want a serious discussion.
Rippers were apparently nerfed clip size reduced to 20.

My question is was this enough? I personally think no, we are still in square one with the rippers. Rippers still have no downfall since 20 shots is a lot in zone and you still have a monsterus advantage over other guns with that 1 less bullet to kill and a faster ROF. It still can supress more than the chainguns and thats the whole point of them, to be a endless bullet hose. I still think that this gun should be moved down to a 12 clip and .15 ROF.i have explained many many many times why and it would still be worth the price.

On a positive note i would like to say thanks to tash for actually acting on this case and making it a lot better than it was and for finally standing up against high prices and saying price does not make a gun a god gun. This is a Baby step in the correct direction and this stuff needs to be kept up with.

"PLEASE NERF RIPPERS"

"YOU GUYS NERFED RIPPERS, I WANT A REFUND"

^^^
Everyone will never be happy. So I've really lost interest on the subject and really think whatever nerf happened, players deserve.

Actually the people who exploded were the people who said rippers are fine. But yeah welcome to the hell of graals playerbases logic. Complementry penuts and softdrinks will be served shortly.

Im inbetween on this. Im glad it was nerfed, but im still upset that theres still no negatives to the gun. This is though a good band aid patch for gun balance to situate all the other guns that are in this mess.

Wow..A clip size reduction. I know the guns are 42k, but just clip size reduction? The TTK as Ghetto metioned on these guns are just OP. 20 bullets that shoot fast and barely any reload freeze..You can just keep firing and firing and firing over again. And then people complain...Over a clip size reduction. That's like me complaining that my number of mags have been reduced in a FPS game because of a nerf. It's nothing folks.

People who have spent 42k get a better gun. Releasing higher tier items like the rippers is inevitable. I don't see the problem in having a very strong gun.

Anyone with Rippers couldnt beat me with my Streamer, so why waste 42k on a gun that i can easily overpower.

Because they have a incredibly unfair advantage over all other guns meaning a noob can just buy there way to victory unlike most others who take the time and practice to gain skill. Thus making competitive gameplay very expensive or time consuming. Also all you start to see in pvp are rippers which is no fun facing the same gun, over and over and over again when all the odds are stacked against you.

If you think that because the most powerful weapon is expensive and that someone else could buy it with real money easily then you'll probably find that most games are 'pay2win'.

Welcome to graal! Ask your parents for itunes cards, you need them for drawing apps, u are really going to spend it on graal and download the free drawing app.

Instead of buying itunes cards save up to buy something in real life. I saved up enough to buy a Silver Plated 1928 Conn New Wonder Series II Saxophone.
I'm going to try to learn coding and graphic design in my free time. I'd like to develop "f2p all the way" mmo game in the future as a hobby. I know what you're point is, but I'm just speaking my mind on something that scarcely relates to what you are saying.


Having a balanced gun system would be nice. Although there are expensive weapons they shouldn't be overpowered. Having a level playing field could attract more players or at least have some stay as they are not beaten up by a single weapon repeatedly. By having a variety of balanced weapons players are given more flexibility. Instead of buying a weapon only because it is better than another they can experiment with others to try and create their own style of fighting. For example I took up the watermelon cannon as my weapon. Currently I'm trying to develop my skills in spar. By using the recoil I push myself away from bullets. With an overpowered weapon however it removes much skill and time needed.
Yes, some of you may have developed some skill, but most of you just spam the weapon. (This is based on my experiences and encounters)Many buy the weapon just to be better than others in terms of weaponry. As mentioned earlier skill and time needed are two variables which may be removed when buying an overpowered weapon. Time is the independent variable while the skill is the dependent. Based on the amount of time devoted upon a weapon or certain style of combat one's experiences and ability is increased. I feel that as if we had a balanced game it would be more enjoyable and extend playing time. I've had several chances at buying an over powered gun, but refused to do so as my experiences in game gained pushed me to keep playing. Putting hard work into something makes it more difficult to abandon. Failures can help us learn. If we push it away or ignore it we can never improve.

Bitch please i dont buy apps. Because i want to blow my money on something else thats not graal.

Maybe if they never released the rippers as OP as they were, this wouldn't of been an issue. People think higher the price, the more OP it is. Never should've made guns as expensive as they did ;).

because they can invest less time in building up skill when instead they could fork 20$ over and get a more powerful weapon and dominate with this. The only beef I have with the streamer is it shoots way too fast with tap fire and is maybe now the most OP thing in frenzy. Just remove the tap fire.

That right there nailed it on the head. Balanced gameplay makes for more fun. However since they didn't decide to unable the option to buy graalets. Theres still the issue of some people actually spent money. How the balance then should go is that the lower price weapons are actually better than the higher priced weapons but are very hard to master. I know it sounds nuts. The example I give is photon and snow rifle. The photon is very cheap, all around weapon, and when used correctly, can absolutely destroy but, if you screw up the fire pattern, it is very unforgiving and hard to fire at max again, and often in the heat of combat, you will panic and screw up the fire pattern. The other thing is that sabers can deflect this gun so its not a good option to kill people attacking the flag. But the snowrifle is I say more expensive since its a limited editon, but that gun is so much easier to use than the photon since its auto ROF is the same as the photons max. So you can just hold the trigger down, not have to worry about a fire pattern, also you don't need to worry about sabers. but you lose 6 shots per clip as photon is 18 while the snow is 12. I would like to see if the GPAR was cloned snow rifle.

"There are no such things as overpowered guns, it may take time to overcome, but there is always a way to win." -Omni

The AP Rippers aren't OP (Overpowered), it just takes time and practice to learn how to beat it, same thing goes for the Streamer
in Frenzy Mode.

sir i think you need to be checked out by a doctor. What you are describing is skill. Over powered means it has way too much power to the point of where that object becomes hands down the most powerful thing. Example the m16a3 in bf3, or the bar in era.

M16A3 was not OP in BF3...

Ugh...

What graal needs is less people like this.

Yea, lets hope they don't release anything higher, we don't need "BARs"

BULL**** at launch the thing was OP as hell. HBAR+grip=laser beams of death. Plus there was a bug that allowed it to bypass suppression.

I thought I was crazy for a while... Im glad to see that someone else knows what theyre talking about. There is a way to balance the guns without making top tier guns OP. Just because top tier weapons are powerful does not necessarily mean they are over powered. Just because you struggle to overcome someone using the APRs does not mean they need to be nerfed. What needs to happen is a buff of the players. There are too many whiners and complainers nowadays that no one is actually focusing on getting better and all I hear is "I want a skill based game" but no one wants to use skill. In my opinion y'all are hypocrites and need to go play club penguin and gtfo out of zone and era if you cant understand this.
" There are no such things as overpowered guns, it may take time to overcome, but there is always a way to win." -Omni

Theres a very fine line between good and OP. rippers right now are currently just slightly above good since they still have so many advantages over other guns. What omni is describing is skill. This is also eras mentality of weapon balance. Fork over money and get a OP gun that requires no skill too use or gain lots of skill to beat people with low class weapons. We all know how era turned out to be and no one wants that.

No it really wasn't. I played at launch and to me the M16a3 was as good as AK-74M. It's like saying the colt m1911 is op. Anyone with skill could have killed a person with a m16a3. The gun is not OP. You wanna see OP guns? Hop on COD.

It requires skill to overpower the rippers something you obviously don't have. Stop crying because you suck and learn how to beat them. It may be overpowered but it isn't that hard to kill players who use Rippers. The APRs are balanced fine the way they are.

I'm curious, what weapons do you use?

I use the Streamer and the Syphon pistols

Ok ok ok, so you are telling me, a gun with 800RPM, something a little bit more recoil (i think it was by .08) and a way faster t2k is not OP? Go onto any battlefield forum and ask if the m16a3 was not OP. the m16a3 was the god gun of bf3 hands down. If you think it wasnt OP fine (you are blessed with not being so nit picky about this stuff unlike me) there was though 2 guns that were OP at launch that can not be argued, PKP ca-ching and the USAS12 frag

Holy shat im surrounded by ****ing ******s. Why is this always the go to excuse for OP guns? If you have ever seen me base on conquest before, im no easy target and i personally have no problems at all with taking down rippers. What my problem is that how im always put at such a large disadvantage vs others and competitive gameplay turning into a ripper master race.

Tl;dr
Why invest time in building up skill when instead they could fork 20$ over and get a more powerful weapon, get into action of the game instantly and dominate with this.

Id rather not bring out my cocky side and get myself going.

Im sorry but obviously you cant overcome the APRs if you think just by owning them you can "instantly dominate with them".

i see you with rippers.

Are u serious m8 you too are joining the ****** side on this when you have seen me base on conquest before, i can already dominate with brains and a photon. I said this 80 million times i have no problems with taking down a APR user. This is my problem
Why invest time in building up skill when instead they could fork 20$ over and get a more powerful weapon, get into action of the game instantly and dominate with this.
That right there is my issue.

I disagree, players should be able to get there refund if there gun was needed, I completely don't staff will though.

why though? the gun is still OP and well worth the 42.5k.

The only problems i see with the aprs now are that the bullets are hard to see in a lot of aeras and that the tap fire is too fast for the hit timer. I normally tap fire my guns for accuracy and its been a problem, i think the tap fire speed should be equal with the autofire speed. And the streamer even when fenzied is still fair due to its awkward aiming, tends to leave more gaps than most guns. And thanks to whoever nerfed the aprs, pking is more enjoyable again. :)

Once again I am reminded why we are all forced by law to attend school until the age of 18.
Nice try Rotaruc...

oh you re read your own posts?

no you are just making a gun that is already OP and way too easy to use even easier to use. Unless the clip was nerfed to 12, then it would be justified.

Go play club penguin you whining illogical scrub. That's the only place where your comeback would offend anyone and no...not because I read my own posts, Its because people like you exist. You are against powerful guns altogether and cry because you cant handle them.

I'm done trying to make my point. Have fun being naive.

I meant lower the tap speed.

illogical? The only one who is being illogical is you. You have seen me base and whoop some serious ass at conquest before. You know that I can handle APRs before and after the nerf fine. So please stop using the same dumb argument that I can't handle the rippers. Also you can't give counter argument stating that this gun is not OP and why without me shooting you down.

Lowering the ROF means the gun shoots faster, increasing means making the gun shoot slower. The only place where this does not apply is when we are talking RPM

Ripper ain't even that OP. Just get ya skills up and quit complaining.

GIT's middle name is 'Complain'. All his posts are complaints. ALL his life is complaints.

Yup thats me

Tap fire isn't a property of guns, it is solely determined by the bullet frequency.

i noticed this too, apparently all non tap fire weapons ROF is above .31 or a 5 in the thousands place (.xx5)

so who knows, maybe making the guns ROF .205 will make the gun very fast and still outclass every gun but have not that horrid impossible to weave between shots. Then lowering the clip size to 14.

Serious discussion time, APR nerf, was it enough?
 

Well a .18 to .205 transition in for a ROF wouldn't necessarily be a big change since its .025 difference but in technical terms it would be slower then current used weapons such as green rifle

It makes a tad bit of a difference, its barly noteable but your gaps between shots are slightly larger thus making weaving a tad easier.

Don't be mad because of rippers. People worked hard to get it, just learn to overcome the rippers like others. You asked for a nerf, you got a nerf. Don't be complaining, or would you rather have no nerf at all?


I also agree that the bullets are a bit hard to see, but so is the blue rifle! I think the best way to counter this is to try to drag them out into an open area. Whenever i can't see them is when I am surronded by people. So dragging them out helps

The nerf wasn't enough though, we are still in square one: APRs are still significantly better than any gun and way too easy to use. I have no problems with guns that are chainsaws and tear people in half, i only got a problem with them if they are super easy to use like the rippers. I can come up with so many ways to nerf the gun and it still being a chainsaw gun.

also getting people out in the open is a terrible strategy for me at least since they can just infinite spam you with incredibly deadly bullets, so i just stay near cover and enclosed areas.