Ukraine
 

UPDATE: The war between Russia and the Ukraine is now official, no response from other countries yet, will keep this thread updated.

Are they any Russian/Ukrainians on these forums? If so, what is your view on this whole situation (this applies to everyone else as well).

Basically, for anyone who doesn't know here is a summary of what is currently happening right now (re-post from my Facebook status I made about it) ;

The Russian flag was just raised in the city of Kharkiv, Putin sees this as an opportunity to take control of Crimea and other parts of the Ukraine which I suspect will end badly.

The US stated they would act aggressively if Russian troops were sent to the Ukraine , and Putin ignored the message and the Russian government decided they are going to do it anyways. Thousands of soldiers have already landed and seized control of strategic points like airports and coastal/land marks around the border as well as Russian military gathering near the borders and several flags being marched through out Ukraine.

The UN has called a meeting to decide how they will react to the situation , hopefully no mention of nuclear warfare will come up.

Now my thoughts on how this could play out (little to no violence); Obviously it is clear Putin's main goal is to seize control of Crimea most likely due to the fact the majority of the population is Russian how ever I do believe that the invasion was not necessary mainly because Crimea participated in the riots and wants to be a part of the rest of Ukraine, so Putin most likely saw this as an opportunity to seize control (he does not stand alone; the whole seat of Russian government is giving his actions support) ― personally I think the best action to take is to withdraw the majority of troops (some must stay for security reasons) and Putin / Russian government should go to the Crimea parliament building to discuss the future of Crimea (even if it is not controlled by Russia, they can still have relations with them) of course all of this would be to avoid war as Obama would not back down if the military action continued, and the people of Crimea deserve a say in their own future.

What do you guys think?

Update: Talk of Russia being removed from the G-8, UN security council, and World Trade Center have surfaced.

Update:15,000 more Russian troops in Crimea, Ukraine announces all relations with Moscow are now gone.

Update: Two Russian anti-submarine warships have appeared outside of Sevastopol coasts violating the base agreement.

This wont end nicely. Even if Russia took control of the situation and placed another guy in charge when it was over... the people of Ukraine would still want democracy. This would just piss them off even more. Putin was stupid to interfere just because russias flag was raised. Ive seen videos of people in Ukraine waving the U.S. flag. You dont see marines in ukraine right now lol

In the end I think what needs to happen will happen.

Ukrainians have assessed the Russian troop landing as an aggressive threat to the sovereignty of Ukraine, which will lead to violence and more riots, US and Russia have been looking for an excuse to go to war ever since the end of the cold war, and I doubt this will end peacefully.

****.

More war.

I can see violence playing out through ground troops, but not as much as previous wars.

It would most likely end up into a nuclear stare-down similar to the cold war, both Russia and US know that if nuclear war broke out it could mean the end of civilization so I don't think any of them are stupid enough to pull the trigger (Hopefully).

I can see this all blowing out of the water in a few months, once Ukraine settles down with their new government and such everything should return to normal.

that's what they get for trying to prevent vitali klitchsko from running for president.

I think the Western world has no choice but to face the Russians. If Nato forces go in then Russia will back down. If not they may have to be removed some other way.

Russia sent troops in even after they were told military action would be taken against them, so they most likely won't back down.

They assume they are hollow words. If actions back up these words then they are more likely to see sense.

Update: Ukraine is dropping all relations with Moscow if this activity keeps up.


Putin wants to have war against the U.S, and if allied troops have to be sent they are no longer offering the chance for him to back down without facing consequences.

Not even Russia is stupid enough to go to war. If Russia decides to go to war they will almost certainly be fighting US, UK, France, Germany, Italy and countless other nations. Russia has very few allies of that calibre.

Major Allies

Regional Allies: (Some of the former Soviet Bloc Countries)

Middle East: Syria, Iran, Egypt

Asia: China

Americas: Mexico, Venezula

Minor Allies:

Various South American / Central American Countries, Cuba

Russians allies, also Korea would be allied with Russia in they event of a war.

Their American 'allies' would not back them. None of them would be able to stand up to the US. The only American country who could possible back them would be Argentina but then only to try and take the Falklands off the British. Syria is in no position to help anyone out these days. China is too clever to fight the Western world. It needs the money that comes from trade with them.

China is a very rich country, and America is in a lot of debt from them your statement is backwards.

China and Korea are both powerful countries, which people fail to realize.

Update: 15,000 more Russian troops have landed

China is rich from trade with the West. Korea is led by a bumbling fool who couldn't win a war against anyone.

Update: Two Russian anti-submarine warships have appeared outside of Sevastopol coasts violating the base agreement.

That is what worries me.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...y_aircraft.jpg

we're ready.

http://sabbah.biz/mt/wp-content/uplo...itary-Aid1.jpg

http://blogs.cfr.org/zenko/files/2012/05/Army-tanks.jpg

This...

Doesn't look too good...

There's not going to be a war over the ****ing Ukraine.

The Ukraine itself is practically in a state of revolt, are you really surprised Russia would meddle in their business?

I would act ASAP if I were incharge. The sooner the better because Russia will have complete control of Ukraine by the end of this weekend...

In charge of what? The people are revolting against the Ukrainian government.

Who is in the right is up in the air. Some say the people revolting arent as innocent as people seem to think they are, while others say the government is corrupt. Both are probably true, and if anyone should be allowed to meddle in their business it's probably Russia.

Crono, the people of Ukraine are no longer revolting, they have a new president and got the government they wanted.

For the war part, UN and NATO are getting involved as we speak, Russia was warned action would be taken against them yet they stated they don't care and approved military action could be taken by Putin.

20,000 troops and warships as well as several vehicles is not just "meddling" it is an invasion, let us not forget Russia has broken several agreements and international law because of this as well.

If ****s hits the fan here im hoping Cameron does not intervene and charge head first with the americans because Britain would be screwed

Do you not understand that Ukraine is its own country and Its independance should be respected?... No one should be allowed to send 20,000 troops and warships to meddle with anyone lol. And if I were in charge of NATO I would take action. Russia does not like the idea of Ukraine becoming a democracy. Their reason for taking military action is to protect the russian people in crimea but thats bs.

Update: Russian military trucks have been seen driving to Perevalnaya's military base.

The Ukrainian college students who started this are almost as idealistic and dumb as the Egyptian's 3 years ago.
They think the EU is paradisical union that will magically make them as good as Germany.
First of all that's stupid because I expect Ukraine to be full of Gypsies, Somalis and Turks (just like Swedistan, Londonistan, Germany).
Second of all I think they'll never be able to recover from their economic problems they've now fallen into, I want to see how helpful the EU and US will be to them now and I expect huge instability and riots.
Also it's a good thing that Sisy went to Russia last month and I hope that Egypt stops relations with the US and sides with Russia and China economically.
PS: pls no muh democracy and muh people's choice responses

Ukraine has called to US and the Europeans to help them, Ukraine does not have a sufficient military to deal with the problem on it's own.

US and the European allies are pointing towards taking strong economic actions and if that fails will be left with no choice but to use military.

I just want you guys to know that if we're ever going to war and they start drafting for whatever ****ing reason that I think it'd be best if we put the Graalian symbol on our helmet so we can mourn our fellow Graalians that will fall in combat.

Ukraine assembles forces and a naval fleet of 10, as the tension rises #OpFightBack comes into action.

USA won't intervene militarily. In the end they'll probably just do nothing. For Christ's sake it's Ukraine.

THE CHANCE OF NUCLEAR WAR IS SOOOOOOOOOOO SLIM. Both sides understand that nuclear warfare would result in the crippling of the human race.

Russia has 150,000 soldiers outside the border, NATO is holding a security meeting today to decide on the course of action, US already stated they would get involved if Putin did not pull back.

Russia has broken international law, they are an obvious threat. The allied forces see this and will not just let it slide.

Update: Unidentified military ship has just been spotted off the coast of Sevastopol, thought to be US but most likely more Russian's.

UN does ****all and I doubt NATO will drag everyone into a war against Russia of all countries. They most they'll probably do is set up sanctions and try to force Russia to back off.

No ****, but it's not surprising considering they owned Ukraine for a century. The Ukraine had a democracy, people called corruption on the results and revolted. I'm not saying Russia is in the right, but the way people act all surprised is ******ed.

WW3 isn't going to break out.

Hopefully the war stays between Russia and Ukraine.

There probably won't be a war but I'm not sure how the EU will respond if there is. For the people wondering, neither nation are part of NATO or the EU. They are part of the UN but the UN is a joke. I too hope things run their course and other nations stay out of it. Russia has a lot to lose, and if the Western world turn their backs on Russia then either their people will protest/revolt or Russia gets fisted back into the Soviet era.

There's a Russian Dota joke to be had somewhere here, I'm jut not creative enough. :(

I think at the very least Russia will be removed from the G-8, and possibly the World Trade Center if they start war.

that wouldn't be a war, but more like a takeover.

Russia is just mad the world was making fun of their Olympic hosting conditions, they will back down eventually once the US master race checks them.

Just did some reading and Obama is pretty much going to do what I thought, greater isolation. I should also point out to people that it's not like they're marching armies into all of the Ukraine, for some reason Putin wants Crimea.

This entire situation is hilarious because the US basically did the same thing but worse with Iraq, and then have the audacity to speak out against Russia. Luckily Iraq is some ****hole no one cares about.

America is a good ally for Britain. Britain has a long standing reputation of being involved in world affairs so it is very likely that we will be involved whatever happens.

Putin was granted permission from the Russian parliament to use forces in all of the Ukraine if he wants. He hasn't yet but could well start.

As for Iraq that is a whole different situation. That was for oil and to get rid of a terrorist haven led by tyrant who was attacking allies of the West. The Crimea is not a terrorist haven or attacking Russian allies.

2,000(around that) civilians killed in 9/11, 100,000 civilians killed in numerous unjustified attacks on Iraq.

Attacking a country over oil is far worse than Russia trying to take control of a country where the majority of people are of Russian ethnic.

However, Iraq is a whole different discussion and opinion base so I am going to avoid that debate.

lol no sh1t, its obvious that the most powerful country in the world would be a good ally.


yes


this was just one of the excuses we used to get to the oil along with WOMD.

Also, it just isn't Iraq, the US has intervened in several countries where they had no reason.

what is that have to do with Iraq?


personal self interest is a reason. Americans don't attack/help because they want to help but because they have to protect certain interest. Do you know why Afghanistan Taliban were using American weapons to attack Americans?

We founded modern America. We created the monster... But anyway America is a much better ally than Russia. Nato won the cold war so this should be much simpler.

But Russia is digging trenches in northern Crimea. Sounds like they are aiming to occupy it for the foreseeable future.

America created the Taliban and funded all their weapons and such.

Oil is very important. Plastics, medicine and other products rely on oil, without it a modern country could collapse. Wars over oil are much more justified than people think.

and I had a brain freeze and confused Iraq and Afghanistan my bad

Reportedly, Poland is moving troops to Ukraine borders (not verified)

Going to watch Pokemon , have a nice discussion,

I don't think they created it. They backed and organised them and did fund them but I believe they were already around.

This is so ironic considering America's past with their military take overs.

^^^^^ They helped them beat the Russians.


I do hate America.

I would agree to a certain point but I'm sure its not even close to your reason which I would like to know.



they didn't do it because they wanted to help or for no reason. They did it because Afghanistan was at war with Russia. personal interest

Lol @ Pokemon=abandon