PC Client vs iDevice Client (split from 'Classic's Top 10 Sparrers')
 

Here's a proper house to the ongoing PC vs iDevice argument as to advantages, disadvantages, one being unfair, etc. I'm not putting a poll on here because obviously everyone would just choose the one they primarily use and since each have their own benefits. So, thoughts on the subject?

PC Client vs iDevice Client
 

It doesn't take over 50,000 spars to realize pc players tend to walk right through sword hits. Thanks for bringing up pk, gave me a good point. Pc players don't just spar like any other player, they pk, gs, etc. (You don't need to be sparring to see it).

These are all stupid claims that have no proof to back them up. I can go on and rant about how the large majority of iDevice players have terrible delay and walk through sword hits, but I know thats not because of the platform they play on.

Isn't it possible to spar using an Xbox controller? I've heard some people synced theirs up to their PC

Don't know why people complain about pc users.
They're not that hard to adapt to

Yep, you can use xpadder to apply it

Yes. Victor Enguard doesn't play much but he spars with a PS3 controller using the joystick for movement. I used to spar on PC Graal for a while using analog on a SNES controller, began to hurt my thumb though.

Could be wrong I guess, but I would assume it was because iPhoners complained that PC players had an advantage and that they didn't want to spar them. So to make players happy, there are two tournaments.

That doesn't necessarily mean PC players actually do have an advantage.

Haven't i already proved that PC has an advantage over iDevice. ****ing idiots

If this is the case someone that knows what theyre talking about be kind enough to explain how things work and why is it impossible for pc s to be faster. This will clear up the "worthless" iphone vs pc drama. Then sticky it for a reference any time a noob from now on decides to argue.

Browsers are actually giant CPU hogs and they make your computer run a bit slower.. Go to the processes tab in the task manager (windows) to see for yourself. Also, as a player who doesn't really have time for the small updates, I have noticed a sharp increase in quest/actual content that was requested from players for so long. It just takes a long time to produce, which is understandable.

iPhones don't have to load add-ons, ads, plugins, etc. Browsers do. Generally speaking, most modern computers are faster than a mobile device like an iPhone, which is pretty normal. If an iPhone is slower because of its limited resources, why complain about a more powerful device with a more accurate connection to the host address? IMO, the controls are the only thing worth talking about in a PC/iDevice debate.. Which can also go either way, depending on preference.

By the way... I don't like the way you talk in most of your posts, to be honest. You speak with quite a bit of hostility. From my point of view, any point you try to prove seems much less credible, and I am inclined not to believe or agree with much of what you say. This is not usually desirable in an argument of any type. I advise you to act a little more respectful, and open your mind to both sides of the situation before you make haste to point fingers.

You are wrong, anyway. I've spoken with staff members about the change and I know the exact reason for past actions. Don't twist a story to back up your own opinion on a subject. This being said, can we please get back on topic?

No, i just want to make sure that everyone knows that the Facebook app for Graalonline Classic is unfair for iOS users in sparring. Please don't act like a big shot if you beat someone in a spar using a PC ^_^. ****lords

I hate for the conversation to go in this direction, but how old are you? I don't mean it in any way that I should be commended for being a 20 year-old dude who still plays this stupid game, but I'm seeing this whole discussion gradually shift away from experience (where I sure as hell have a lot more than you) and more towards understanding and intelligence (see last parenthesis).

You've made the statement several times in this thread that "browsers boost their speed." What does that even mean? What are you saying? Have you taken your first computer course in high school yet?

You've said that browsers "make your internet faster." Whaaat are you saying?

1. Your speed on Graal has nothing to do with your internet connection. All it would affect is your latency. You'd lag less, although your latency really has more to do with your distance from the server in 2013. Hello? Brain?
2. As Winter said, browsers are a huge resource hog and the dependency of running the Flash client in a browser is one that isn't exactly convenient.

Why do you even talk about things that you don't know much at all about?

Cool theory, opinions don't matter, winning does. iOS users who want to spar competitively can access the game by PC or just improve. I've said this earlier in the thread though, you just continue to conveniently ignore every post I make that you have no response to but that's alright. You should try going to a bowling alley wearing bunny slippers and then cry your delicious tears about unfair the game is when everyone else is wearing bowling shoes.

?

Aaand I'm done taking you seriously.

LOL he still doesn't get it! Using cheatengine isn't even considered "hacking"... Even so, it will still take up more CPU and make your computer even slower. I haven't found someone using cheatengine on iClassic for a whole year now, maybe more. How about us normal people using nothing but the internet browser? Is that still unfair if we don't use cheatengine, which by the way, results in an autoban as soon as you log on?

If you really believe a browser can boost connection speed, you are horribly incorrect. Movement speed via third-party resources shouldn't even be taken into account in this discussion, because it is not legal.


Also, I can argue that iPhone players have the ability to make a fake "smurf" account to play on and have a /350 deviation rating, and shoot up to the top of the leaderboards in just a day or so. While very annoying, it also throws the rating circulation off balance and causes the leaderboards to be inaccurate repesentations of the "best sparrer". How does an iPhone player defend that?

Graal iClassic has no auto-ban for using CheatEngine, and you still are able to use CE for speed-hacking/wall-hacking/health-hacking, it really isn't that hard if you know how to use your brain.

hi comyt, hi thallen

I believe there was an autoban in effect last year, since it can detect third-party programs. I'm not sure what you intend to dig at with your last statement, but most of the PC users know that cheatengine is an unfair advantage, and should honestly never be used. I'm not sure if you can stil call it unfair if we don't use the program, though...

Also, can iPhones still use iFile to warp via grab gani replacement like in 2011? That's unfair IMO.

No, there only is an autoban on PC Servers, for example UN will insta ban you for "using hacking tools", but this server will not. The RC will report speedhackers only, I think (don't qoute me on this), but anything else will not be detected.

And, oh with my last statement I wanted to add some satire. iPhone players can do alternative accounts, who cares? And so does Craig, already 3 alternative accounts, keep going man.

To your last statement, that's also invalid. If you alternate your gani-files, you'll be autobanned, it's easy to detect.

I don't even know why the conversation has changed to hacking. It has zero relevance to the argument because there is no one who is even regularly accused or even suspected of hacking in the spar community on iClassic. Let's not turn this into Unholy Nation, some of us left that server because of how dramatic and weird that community is.

I started doing that in response to multiple people doing the same to me when I am streaking in the main room and I've continued to do it because it's actually fun and convenient for me. It doesn't matter anyway, because I've been #1 on my main account on the FB leaderboard for about 90% of the new season. People literally change rooms and avoid me and it's often hard for me to get in multiple spars at a time on my main account.

Comyt probably does it for the same reason. Either PC or iDevice can idle up an alternate account so it's another issue that is moot in this conversation, anyone can do it. If alternate accounts were disabled, nothing would change really, you'd just see only one of us on the leaderboard, not five. It's fun to make the leaderboard my personal Enguard graffiti wall, anyway.

Aren't you this guy? Only pointing fingers because you chose to, I honestly don't even know you.

I think i've come to the realization theres no possible way for Ash Ketchum and GOAT to give up on this argument. They're just going to pull **** out of thier ass and pretend like they know something.

Like Thallen said earlier, the more we argue, the more we stoop down to their idiotic level.

That leaderboard is so stupid. People will create second accounts to take up space, stop sparring afraid to lose their place, drop majorly losing to someone on a second account, etc. I honestly don't know how people can stand it. I think it should honestly follow Gamecenters style of having of having wins or W/L ratio as the leaderboard so there's no more double accounts. Better yet, keep the old one and add it along with it.

As for the PC having advantages it does. Screen doesn't really matter anymore since iDevice's are granted the ability to zoom out. Controls though allow the player to perform actions an iDevice player cannot. According to the above posts the PC has also introduced controllers as sparring weapons. Although I can't prove the swords passing through PC sparrers without a video, I do believe they do. In fact, nothing is going to be proven until someone makes a video of gameplay where it happens. This has been another wonderful circle of PC argument that has gotten absolutely no where. This is just a complaining thread now.

^^^
Also PC users come and PK and can do wall spar without a wall AND THEY RUN SO QUICKLY!

I agree for the most part and would be in support if the leaderboards and spar rating in general was changed to be restricted to a single account per IP, but that'll never happen for multiple reasons.

I don't think a wins leaderboard makes all that much sense for sparrers. It does for PKing, but the ratio makes a little more sense for sparring. Overall, the points system is the best way to reflect sparring ranks but could be improved in a few small ways. Even as it is right now, I think they usually reflect who the best sparrers are at any given time anyway.

I have yet to see a legitimate/proper explanation of why PC players have an advantage over iOS sparrers besides the ability to strafe. Everyone claims to have provided sufficient evidence, however they have been shut down every single time and continue to think they're right.

please, provide some valid arguments.

So it is unfair that PC users have access to cheatengine because they can use it to "speedhack"" (change values), although you admit that it automatically reports you for using it? Yes, that is what I meant by autoban, because you pretty much are found out, and have about a 100% chance of a ban. Also, there were players not to long ago that used cheatengine to give themselves tons of gralats, and they were found out almost instantaneously. The same occurred when people would warp with the glove gani.

We do have Graal Police, you know? If you think someone is unfair on any device, you have the power and responsibility to report them. There is no reason people like you should be complaining about cheating, hacking, or anything like this. Completely irrelevant.

To be honest, I have come across so many more players using third-party programs on PC servers than iClassic. You are incorrect: They are not caught and "insta banned". These type of "hacks" share similar properties with computer viruses, even regular viruses in real life.

Altering .gani files autobans now? Well, that's a step up then. Then again, that means you are altering your actual game files, not using a third-party program to change the values. Fairly easy script detection. In this case, it sounds like staff just took care of unfair iPhone activity before PC activity. (Wait... Weren't iPhones here years before computers? Fishy...)

I'm not sure... I've never done it, so I can't compare. :P

While a keyboard can perform actions an iPhone cannot, I do not believe (in my opinion) that it is all that necessary, and it does not provide the player with more speed. In fact, I feel slower when I strafe because I am fighting to move in either direction, so I move in neither. To me, the lack of this movement makes iPhone players seem much smoother than PC. Also, a video of gameplay only shows one screen, and one point of view. There are also technical flaws (was it meant to be that way?) in the way Graal is scripted that many PC players just so happen to have more experience with, due to their tendency to have much more experience on the game than many iPhone players.
~
Someone should make a PC vs iPhone complaint thread, and all arguments would belong there... This is pretty pathetic that no real spar discussion can end in anything except conflicting opinions of an irrelevant topic. Don't reply to me, and don't reply to anyone else about the device "issues". This is not the place.

Ok ok, go on your iPhone or what ever you have and spar a really good PC user, take note of their speed, turns, how they move, sword hits and literally almost everything.

@Rezon

Still looking for an answer.

Within your own post lies the answer to this entire argument. And as for the rest of the crap, its all placebo and its a pride thing that makes you delusional.

Get comyt, he seems to have high hate against PC.

(Sorry if your wondering my posts are late the other post appears before mine)

Comyt doesn't whine anymore about PC, or less than he used to. He realized that the PC doesn't have any advantages, and it is just a different medium to play on. Comyt is probably the best iDevice sparrer, and can beat great ones on PC.

There you go.

lol hey talon you should bring all the posts from the last 8 pages of the spar thread.

Get over yourself. Okay I'm done here.

autoban? i don't think so. Cheat engine is used all the time in iClassic. You need to play more. The majority of people that have gotten banned was because of a PC from using cheat engine.THEY DO NOT GET AN AUTOBAN Their system might detect that someone might be hacking, but and admin will have to check it out first. Speed hacking is near undetectable between 1.0 (normal speed) to 1.3. Internet browsers like moving between 1.0 to 1.2.

This makes PC unfair. Also Stefan did a crappy job on the app for Facebook and hence why you can't hit people from the Facebook app

Either you're seriously 12 years old, or you're just saying random things hoping that at least one thing you say is slightly accurate..

If neither, the only plausible explanation is that you have got to be kidding.

I am 12. If you don't believe me, suck my ****. Download cheat engine, use speed hack go to 1.3 and enjoy the new speed boost without getting tracked down!

Further proof for my post. Avoid question, throw a personal bash then walk off like they're superior. Its all a pride thing.

Indeed that is him the one who you clearly caught pausing to avoid sparring losses the one who sat on 8000+ spar rate for several months by some means or other and stayed there by only sparring one noob a day to prevent his rate from being wiped away. And this is also the same person that challenged Jack (Scooby) to a spar series on iClassic and got his ass handed to him 15-2.

How about posting some concrete evidence? I mean, if you can't do that this thread shouldn't go on any longer.

ok so we talking about the differences in clients.

Pc client:
1.mainly older players 18+
2.think they knowitall
3.pros at butthurting themselves
4.want to use iphone servers but are afraid to leave their pc behind
5.feel its an accomplishment to beat kids using slower device
6.no skill noobs
7.hate bomber because he ignores their pc graal and constantly complain

iPhone client:
1.mainly kids
2.they knowitall
3.dont know what butthurt is
4.welcome any pc noob to the iphone world on a device and lols the lamer that uses his pc
5.feel it’s an accomplishment to get past the tutorial
6.skillfull pros
7.love bomber for all the updates and he loves them back for making him money without constantly complaining

As you can see there are many differences between the clients that pc graal and iphone graal have.
.....:D:D......
:angry::noobs::angry:

Ignoring your first four points and your last point because they're nothing short of ******ed and have next to no relevance to the discussion.

Now moving on to the pathetic excuse for a list of "differences" as you put it, obviously if you take two opposite ends of the spectrum as you're doing comparing a player with a reasonably good computer to that of someone with a clustered old iDevice its obvious the iDevice would be slower. However the same applies to someone with a old and slow computer as compared to someone with a new iDevice, the one using the computer would obviously appear slower. But on average they're the same speed, or maybe its just you having terribly slow reflexes.

There are as you put it "skillful pros" on both sides but you fall very short of being one. So instead of crying about how you get you owned by players on PC why not practise more and butt hurt less?

I am consistently stunned by how stupid you are.

• You've actually convinced yourself that there is a hacking problem within the spar community.
• You've managed to do this as someone who has never even been in the spar arena once in the past month.
• You've actually convinced yourself that a 30% speed increase is not noticeable by the naked eye (ROFL).
• You're under the impression that there are not apps on Cydia that cannot change your tick speed the same way CheatEngine can for processes on Windows.
• You've made a baseless and ******ed claim that browsers increase your tick speed by 20%, randomly (ROFL).

ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOFL

Leave this thread to the sparrers, man. You and GOAT are a riot.

Originally, I had planned to type out a long paragraph about delays, speed boosts, advantages and disadvantages but this about sums it up:

http://psychology.about.com/od/pinde...ebo-effect.htm

Every iDevice user is a lagger. Every PC user has a speed advantage. Is it all necessarily true? Not exactly. Those are jusy stereotypes you hear a lot. I think a major reason as to why people find PC players to be better is because if they've been playing this game for 10 or so years on a PC, they would be very familiar with the controls and mechanics of sparring on a PC. Now if iClassic were out for 10 or so years and people have been sparring for a long time, you might say that they have an advantage.

Are Internet connection speeds and delays regular factors of sparring? Of course they are. But idealy if you threw a PC player with an iPhone player in the same arena using the same speed, the better player would come out on top.

So again, why are many PC players considered to be "better"? Experience and familiarity with the controls. Graal originated on the PC, so they've been using a PC for a long time. I'm not saying because they're experienced and familiar with the controls makes them virtually invincible at sparring. Anyone can win so long as they know they're able to.

Shut down? Saying "stop whining" or "you're just mad" or some bs like that isn't shutting down anything that's just a pcer that can't come up with something to counter the argument. Now, let me put the arguments in my own words.

1. They walk through hits. No i'm not raging, anyone with normal vision can see it.

2. Keyboard controls > Touchscreen controls. Here's an example: I sometimes play games on my Nexus 7 which is a touchscreen with an actual controller built for tablets. It's 100 times easier to use the physical controller over the touchscreen's.

3. Maybe this was just me but ever since pc was allowed for iClassic I've noticed ridiculously high spar ratios that I've never seen before. Example: I saw that Rashard guy's spar score then I was like "Damn this guy must be good", then I sparred him and he was walking through hits like if he was a saint.

4. There's an iDevice only spar room and Gst for a reason.

Now to shut down the arguments saying pc's have no advantage.

1. "You're just whining butthurt noob". This isn't an actual argument try again.

2. "Go on pc then spar and I guarantee you will get destroyed". Well gee no ****... Someone who has no experience on a device will of course not be very good. Same for a pc who's never used an iDevice. Once they get familiar with pc after a bit I guarantee they'll start getting some bs wins.

You are truly, truly an idiot. If you lack the intelligence required to explain how or why this is possible, then don't make the claim.

Can I ask why you don't spar on PC then?

You are truly, truly an idiot. If you lack the intelligence required to explain how or why this is possible, then don't make the claim.

Yes, the reason is because of complaints like yours. The administrators like to give crybabies what they want. That's how you maintain a playerbase. What do you expect?
When the government tax the wealthy a higher percentage than the middle class, it bears no implication that it's fair. They do it because it is what the majority want. Opinion, want, or need is not a variable in a fairness equation. You are dumb.

I hope the idiots of this thread (yes, I'm talking to you GotenGraal, Ash Ketchum and GOAT) realize that we stopped being serious when we realized you're all mentally incapable of understanding how wrong you actually are. Now its just for fun.

Based on my experience on an IDevice (I used a plain and simple Ipod touch) and a PC, I never noticed any advantages related to their clients. However, since both systems require a different set of fingers to play, I believe an advantage can be found when playing on a PC.

Obviously I am no scientist and did not conduct any professional experiments but one would think having at least six fingers on a keyboard (on both of my hands, I use my index, middle and ring finger but some people use their pinkies) would result to a faster reaction time than using two thumbs. With an Ipod, you constantly need to move your left hand thumb around the screen in order to move. Although this consumes the slightest amount of time, it still takes more time than having a fixed finger on an arrow key. This gives the PC user maybe a tenth of a second quicker reaction give or take over the the IDevice majority. Such an advantage is barely noticeable and all depends on the player.

I would say that's my two cents on the situation but the pennies are abolished in Canada.

Finally, a real unbiased argument that I can actually agree with. As for the pennies being removed, you could say thats my 5 cents worth since we round now.

. They walk through hits. No i'm not raging, anyone with normal vision can see it.
so if he cant explain how it happens means its not true? Lol (he hasn’t been obsessed with graal half his life like you dude) don’t be a hypocrite if you know it does happen why cry about it
v---- like he said anyone with a normal vision can see that even without the slow motion (im guessing this is walking through hits)

Are you the US David? If yes you have no business here dude you’re just a lame. If you are im a tell you why.
I was at gst and saw Rufus talking to david and he told him “the iphoners are sparing, go find them now” lol if that’s you dude I can’t respect a wimp like that. If it is you don’t bother replying to me lol
This is what i got from your post so let me know if i got it wrong

Old device vs new computer =faster computer
Old computer vs new device = pc looks slower but on avg is the same speed meaning it can be lower or faster
New computer vs new device = faster computer?

Take in consideration there’s many what ifs here:

There can be a huge difference in performance from two new computers. Im almost sure ram, power supplies, graphics cards for gaming are some of the things that affect the performance.

Old computers can be slow but a couple of upgrades make it fast like a newer computer.

There’s also programs that supposedly stop all programs from running while you play for a smoother/faster experience.

And finally what ash has been saying, not all speed hacks are caught. Anyone with knowledge could hack just enough to go undetected.

and whatever xspeed is i guess its legal (even pcrs complain about pcrs) ---v

They walk through hits, what doesn't you're slow ass understand? K let me make this more clear. I hit with sword, you walk into sword, hit me, and take no damage from my sword. Once again calling me an "idiot" isn't an argument.