Stefans missinformation about pc Classic.
 

Unfortunately this is not what he told us.

he never made any mention of removing observer mode, when plans were presented to him for micro-transaction. we never got a response.. when it was offered to adapt them, and asked him what needed to be fixed,

We never got a response.

And making a server independent of graal? no one wanted this. it's completely unnecessary. there was a thread that showed that people would support a graal that didn't have observer mode. perhaps he missunderstood us?

it would be nice if he replied to any emails. or activily worked with us at all.

Just thought i would clarify the truth in case anyone got confused :)

ok.

Wrong forums Nello!

This was a log posted from iEra.

i just wanted to let the icommunity know the truth :)

HOLUP HOLUP HOLUP!...Does this mean Xor is managing two or is someone replacing him on Classic?

I just noticed that the forum mods/administrators on the Offical forums hard deleted any details of thor's firing

You'll have to ask xor about that. but i doubt he wants to take over a server another person spent 4 years developing on.


Ironically it seems the only attention we can get from the owners of graal is the kind of negative attention that does nothing but stall us from further developing for them.

what exactly is this thread supposed to accomplish?

i don't want to say that anybody is or isn't innocent, but thor hasn't exactly been very smart about this. he pushes stefan's buttons any chance he gets. it was only a matter of time before something like this happened, and it should really come as no surprise to anybody.

Oh god, Xor as manager of Classic pc?


Looks like the server is now cancer, lol.

i don't get it

What else was there to do? for years stefan completely ignored him.
Waiting patiently didn't work. Sending lots of emails didn't work.

stefan simply never responded or acknowledged ANYTHING at all.

Imagine you spent all this time on stroseria, finished it and said. okay stefan! lets release it! and then never ever heard from stefan ever agian.

you'd get frustrated. you'd start trying to shame stefan into paying attention.
All these broken promises about new developers tools, the removal of observer mode, graal free to play. and then as the months and years begin to tick by.

He's been developing that server longer than some of us have even been playing graal. so i can see why it would be difficult to truly understand what Thor is trying to do.

Xor is one of the worst managers I've ever seen on Graal.

He fails to respond to serious issues and instead decides to play around on rc.

He refuses to work with anyone except himself, neglecting the opinions of others and making decisions solely off of his own viewpoints.

He makes rash decisions out of anger and refuses to recognize his mistakes.

When he gets into a situation where his own reputation is at risk, he immediately blames it on a lesser member and threatens those who speak otherwise.

Honestly I don't think Stefan pays much attention to Xor's actions, but I don't blame him since he's mainly working on coding and other tasks and appointed a manager so he could devote more of his time to improving the clients and the server infrastructure.

so thor couldn't control himself? or what?

honestly i don't know why you guys are all supporting him. his inability to control himself has caused your server to be taken off of the playerlist.

Not to worry, drama like this doesn't last very long. Just take it as an opportunity to re-re-release at a time when players aren't just about to go back to school.

Not at all. this was all intentional(aside from getting banned ofcourse). thor is one of the most professional developers and managers on all of graal.
You can ask anyone. the things that were uploaded. like the assface video of stefan promising to release new content for pc graal.
or the stefan ostrich. most iphone players thought they were quite funny.

it was meant to shame stefan into paying attention.
Thor has done nothing wrong. he did what anyone in his posistion would do.

Perhaps it's something only an oldbie pc player can understand, but being ignored really is no fun. especially when you have a dedicated and talented development team like the one classic has.

Disappointing Stefan didn't even get the ostrich sticking its head in the sand joke, the whole metaphor of ignoring it when something happens as if that will make it go away.



I mean yes Thor made lots of jokes and petty jabs at stefan, and was blatantly poking a bull with a sharp stick, but perhaps if Stefan paid attention to him and talked to him and responded... Stefan isn't that easy to talk to, there's no way to just get a date set up to sit down on Skype with him, he won't do it...

I'll say it once and I'll say it again.. Stefan is a good scripter and good with the servers, but not a very good owner or game developer..

I don’t know the whole story on thors situation but I don’t understand why would they ban someone who is so passionate about graal. I don’t know the guy but it looks like he’s put a lot of effort into bringing classic back to its glory days and if these screen shots are the reason he got fired/banned dam to sad.

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sry don’t get it (ok understand it now)
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lol I play iphone server and found it hilarious
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dress up game lol (is it a lie?)
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this isn’t disrespectful its frustration

pretty much this, what stefan isn't telling anyone is howlong Thor waited patiently, and asked nicely. only to be completely ignored.

i know i haven't played graal as long as you, but i know that making fun of and harassing the owner of the game is definitely not a good idea. what in the world did you hope to accomplish? did you hope that if you harassed him enough he'd grant all your wishes? obviously you didn't think this through.

harassing him? how?

asking him why he makes all these promises and then never delivers?

Perhaps i'm not explaining it correctly. imagine if stroseria was released on the iphone. but you had to pay to access it. then they released the same server without your permission to the pc. with no trial restrictions what so ever.

you kindly asked them to do the same for your server. presented a list of changes that would benefit both new and old players, and the server owners themselves.

and then never got a reply.

harassing? no. shaming? yes.

I do feel calling Stefan out is in order, but I feel some of the things he did ended up looking more insulting and bashing than simply shaming and showing the truth... I mean stuff like posting what Stefan promised was good, but the talking out of the ass made it look insulting.

Had Thor simply pointed out and brought up things Stefan lied about or didn't do, and been a fact checker, perhaps what he was trying to do would become so blindingly obvious more people would support it, and Stefan wouldnt have as good a grounds to ban him.

From what I've gathered from everyone ive talked to, it seems stefan has become a burden on the game, his actions and his rules handicapping the development.


The people making the game don't like him, and like the game. Does he think banning Thor and the mods deleting all traces of it , trying to censor the players on the forums really going to help on the "leaving graal to make their own game" front? Has he not learned from reborn? I believe it would be entirely possible for players to leave him and set up their own game, then draw the playerbase over. Let's face it, we are loyal to the game. Few are loyal to Stefan and Unixmad.

I'd tell him, but once again he has made contacting him pretty hard. Doesn't exactly respond to email, and blocks his own players on facebook.

are you trying to imply that they released classic to iphone without your permission??

he kinda did... but he should have gotten over it by now, most of the stuff stefan took wasnt made by him.

actually, he kinda didn't. since when did thor own classic?

Unfortunately. that's exactly what Thor DID do with little result.

the closest thing we got is, after a few months he responded "Will read your emails" or something like that. then a few more months more went by and nothing happened.

kindly emailing stefan, and then patiently waiting for a response didn't yield any results.

We completely understand that stefan is a very busy person. but it benefits no one to ignore a very high value and production capable server, that's staffed with a coordinated, talented, and organized development team.

Thor, never made demands that stefan accept the terms defacto.
Just that he simply acknowledges that he's read them.



Sigh.

No, That wasn't the point at all.

i understand that what happened wasn't good at all, but my point is it was preventable but thor just kept pushing stefan's buttons

Don't worry about Xor, he's supermanager.

Well it's definitly a problem having to manage both, he is just one guy, but I guess he won't have that much going on pc classic...

I still feel Thor should have done more like that video of the things that never happened, instead of the things that were mainly just to piss stefan off.

Stefan really made the wrong decision, doing this will be like kicking Thor off the ship, almost like he wants him to go further with the leaving graal to make a better graal project.

A cracked graal if you will...

With kick starter he probably could get the server hosting going, at least till it starts profiting, but if he isn't interested in the AppStore or android apps then it's doomed.

I know I would donate, and I have a feeling players that love graal would donate too.

He would have all the support needed, I mean, a graal with a owner that cares more about the game, actually responds, and has such a high quality standard.

Plus no Unixmad...

It would be incredibly hard, take lots of work and fighting for.... But that would be a huge step for graal...

@Higbey,
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kaYwYkgRxE...+Patriotic.jpg

He has a habit of managing different servers and is used to this sort of thing being a former PWA, Global Guilds Admin, Co-Manager on Zodiac, etc...
Graal's big boys seem to like him.

And to all Classic iPhone Players:
I'm pretty sure that Xor won't be affected by this and he'll be on just as much as he was yesterday and so forth as he has had this sort of thing happen before without you guys noticing a difference.

I would like to state that what happens on pc classic has nothing to do with Xor.

he's probably just as aggravated at stefan as we are for this delay.

Seems even the iPhoners would rebel.

Unfortunately trying to revolt and get things changed results in situations like these.

There's only a couple clear options:

1. Deal with it and wait/hope for things to get better.
2. Quit supporting Graal, leave and never return.

Rebel? Higbey, this is a game. We aren't a country where all the citizens are oppressed. It is a GAME. If you can't see that, I think you need to get outside a bit more.

Hopefully everything goes back to normal by the end of next week.

3. Hope someone actually leaves and makes a separate graal that can be reached on ios and a lot of the pc players Join it...
If Thor/Rufus did that and had a kick starter id donate.

Of course Its not. I mean mutiny, or another word for leave Stefan's graal for a seperate graal project

I'd donate as well.

I'm just waiting for downsider to hand over his engine to reborn so we can get the ball rolling.

Gonna say a few things here so sorry if this post is a cool story, bro.

First and foremost, since a few years ago it all hit me at once that there are only two reasons why you dedicate time towards developing a playerworld on Graal:

1. You have a lot of free time, don't need money, and love the game so much that it could be considered a main hobby of yours
2. You're an idiot

Graal, as a game, had a very ingenious model at a very early stage. It's taken the same approach as a game like Minecraft, just more than a decade earlier. On a game like Minecraft and Graal, as the company behind the game, the first thing you build is a way for your players to develop the content of your game for you.

It can be argued that the communities themselves are what made companies like Cyberjoueurs and Mojang rich. Without a dedicated and selfless base of players who are willing to flesh out the skeleton of your game into something that will attract lots of people, you don't have much of a game.


As Thor is a smart guy, I'm inclined to believe that he understood this years ago and he chose to develop and take a leadership role on Classic because he cared about Graal and the Classic community.

If that is the case:

• Why continue to poke fun at the iPhone/Facebook venture?
• Why continue to harass Stefan?
• Why go out of your way to try to run the game your way, and protest certain "business" elements of the game like observer mode?

It's one thing to disagree. If you've played Graal for more than 5 years, you know that the management is completely out of touch with the game. Why has Graal never put developers on salary to create additional content? Why have we never seen an advertising campaign? Why do globals (other than Bell) do so little to help the community?

I agree with many of the things that Thor took a stand against. They're obvious flaws with the management of the game. However, I think it's stupid to insult, harass, and go against that very same management on your playerworld hosted on their servers when you knew how dire the situation was before you committed however many years of your life into pointlessly developing an entire playerworld.


I think Stefan should acknowledge and appreciate the time that Thor (and the rest of the staff, on every playerworld even) took out of his life to contribute to Graal. Players like Thor and fowlplay4 are what keep his game running. They are the people that make him money. He should recognize that. And, Thor should have a little more respect for Stefan's approach. If the management of Graal is uninterested in whatever ideas we have, even if you think it's going to make the company rich, well then that's their decision. That's how running a business works.

Hopefully, Thor will be reappointed and it all works out. And it's a longshot, but hopefully Stefan finds a way to salvage PC Graal. It's been neglected forever and it's just at the point where it's festering and rotting away now. As someone who has managed servers for games like Minecraft and CS:S, it's troubling to consider what Graal could have become, and all of the different approaches the game's management could have taken it that would have 1000 people online right now, even as I type this at almost 6 AM.


Lastly, I've noticed the Classic community lashing out and claiming that this was all the master plan of Stefan. He plotted this so perfectly and wanted to ban Thor at the perfect moment, and then he could appoint Xor as the new manager and steal all of their content and put it on iPhone!

He doesn't have to steal anything. The content is already his. Furthermore, a lot of content on Classic has been recycled over and over, regurgitated for over a decade. It belongs to Graal, it's Stefan's property. This isn't some conspiracy theory. It's a simple case of Thor being a disgruntled playerworld manager who wants more of PC Graal vs. Stefan being someone who wants to stop being ridiculed and humiliated.

He could have meant metaphorically, and regardless to "rebel" on Graal doesn't mean fly over to France and start yelling at Stefan, it might just mean raging in Graal city xD

This

Where's the Negative Rep button so I can neg rep Skill for being an idiot?

It is at the same location as your maturity; nowhere, it is nonexistant.

<sarcasm> Ah thanks Skill. Always the most cheerful person to deal with! </sarcasm>

well this went well...

I'm siding in with Nello (As if "siding in" matters) just because he has a picture of Nicholas Cage with a mustache.

Damn, this thread got derailed pretty quickly.

Just play Eos once it's released.

The purpose of this thread was to combat stefans slanderous lies and misinformation.

and because we are being heavily censored on the main forums with every thread or post being deleted. it's impossible for us to tell the real story of what happened.

stefan seems content to hide from us. tell people Thor viciously attacked him for no reason, and making up **** that never happened.

Everything that was said or posted was anti-observer mode. or a sarcastic humor at the way stefan blatantly ignores player-worlds, or makes promises that never come to fruition. when by now it's obvious he says this stuff just to placate us.

I am often a rather pessimistic individual, you are correct.

However, I find that post rather ironic considering your attack on my intelligence based on a few posts within a thread-You seem as if you are attempting to incite unnecessary conflict because of a post of mine you disagree with.

Skill, this is not the thread "please create a flame war", we focusing on stefan's situation.