Can the seeding for gst start only 1 week before gst? That would be great, and I can already see that a lot of "powerhouse" guilds would be very active during that time in order to get their placement. Especially now that idev and PC are mixed together. Only 64 teams?

Also as for guild leaderboards, the main thing that needs to be solved is the loyalty issue. It would be great if you could only join 1 guild at a time. If you leave, then you have to wait 1 hour to join another guild. If you kick a member then points would be lost for anything that member contributed to (gs, pks, towering). That way the leader won't just kick people just because they want to.

By only being in 1 guild, I guess it would be easier to track individual players' hours for towering, wins/losses for gs, and maybe in the future a leaderboard for guild pking.

Currently wins have a strong correlation with points and guilds don't lose points. Useless having 'points' in the filtering when we could have a skilled based rating system thats already implemented in the guilds profile. Irrelevant if it isn't in the day/week/month categories. Note: Please don't use that old gs rating leaderboard as that was flawed. If you tried gsing closer to the end of the season, gaining points in attempt to reach #1 was basically impossible. Make it like the old spar rating system.

Lmao can't wait to see the devs reaction when gst comes along and they realize noob guilds who think they're the #1 gsers on the server who gs everyday spamming any free recruit they can gets placed in the gst rather then a guild thats more then capable of placing and winning or making it to the final.

It honestly makes no sense to have to spar in 1000+ gs's to enter a tournament that
1) Is already stacked with guilds that don't show up or don't have members online
2) Is plagued with lag
3) Is seeded terribly

I'm basically beating people 1000's of times over and over that I'd be in a gst anyway.

I had a couple arguments with people claiming "real GS guilds" status while bashing "last minute teams," so this turn of events puts a smile in my face. Now these "real GS guilds" are forced to eat their words and actually start acting and GSng like real GS guilds. :D:D I love it.




Ok enough trolling, here's a somewhat serious suggestion for this predicament these "real GS guilds" find themselves in. Would it be too complicated to use a win percentage as the qualifying factor(not seeding). I think the seeding on the actual GST is less important than actually qualifying.

Here's what I mean:
Make a minimum required amount of spars(per season) to register a win percentage and when GST registration opens the win % would be used as the qualifying factor and the rating would be used for seeding. The # of days in a season (X) a certain amount of spars a GS guild should spar a day could be the minimum required amount of spars to register a win %.
Example: 100 days X 4 spars per day



If Fp4 meant the old scoring system is going to be used then I'm a noob and forget what I said. Not sure if he meant the rating of this current board system.

New Scoreboards
 

thanks m8
I didn't think of daily/weekly/monthly at all actually, you're right


and even when there was a rating-esque system, guilds would still do it (not even just noob guilds, "top" guilds would temporarily recruit people)

trickle-down qualification would be the best way, but I can live with rating

anyone arguing against that is effectively saying "no, Alumni, Blackout, CRZ, Rebellious, Apostles, and all those other guilds who have won countless GST rounds should have to invest 10 hours sparring noobs to qualify"
pretty dumb to me, winning rounds in the actual GST is a lot harder than beating (t0mmy picklez fan club) 100 times in the arena

every serious GS guild spars at Belle, we only bother with the arena for the tedious task of boringly getting points

I'm not that active in the sparring community, but couldn't something like this work:

At the beginning of each season if want to GS you have to sign up for that season's guild spar (meaning, guilds and their respective leaders sign up and not players) and once you have signed up for that season, you only have 25 spots that you can use up, and you can't use up more than 25 spots. Once you've recruited 25 people, you can still kick some of them, you just can recruit more than 25 players that season. However, that would most likely eliminate the ability to tower and participate in other guild activites yeah idk lol

thanks.

I don't get how if someone argues against that they are saying any of that at all? Sure winning GST rounds is hard but it's also completely irrelevant to the current seasonal GST. Previous seasons are over and the grind continues in a new season, I honestly could care less about previous seasons.

IDK man 2012-2015 was pretty easy to get GST wins. Not fair to the real 2016 GS guilds that are GSng with all this new real competition.





sorry fulgy I'm done lol

Just realized by clicking on a guild you can see points as per the old point system (at least I assume) and outside of guilds like Demon or M8s, which are good teams anyways, most of the top ranked guilds are hovering in the low to mid 5000s. Kills me inside.

I'm not asking you to care, I'm telling you what's sensible in respect to what actually happens every single GST... You've been here for 1 GST so I'm not sure if you're really in a position to speak about previous ones.
And no, previous GSTs aren't irrelevant... Maybe to you they are, but not statistically. Since the very first GST, 2 guilds make up over 90% of the Mixed wins. The same guilds compete for iDevice every single season, too. US rarely cared about being seeded #1 and we really don't either. I actually think that my guild has somehow managed to face less stiff competition by being seeded lower...

Like I've said, the reality is that (regardless of if it's the current system or a rating system) the GS leaderboard will primarily be decided by:

• People sparring "carefully" on their tag
• People making temporary recruits to their tag

That completely defeats the purpose of seeding... There's no arguing against that, every guild does it because they don't want to have to grind out 100 spars against garbage guilds, it isn't fun. Why do people guild spar at Belle? Because they want quality spars against good players without the risk of a points loss. What guilds are those players in? The ones I previously mentioned, which are guaranteed to qualify every single GST...

You're acting as if it's being suggested that only previous GST winners can enter GSTs. It's seeding. Seeding is so irrelevant right now because of how skewed and inaccurate it is (again, because of these pre-existing systems). I don't care if my guild is seeded #1 or seeded #32, it wouldn't matter. The point is that the quality of sparring that happens in the GS rooms at the arena are a joke, the seeding is skewed and pointless, and it does nothing but promote unhealthy guild activity.

Exactly what will happen: 1 week before the GST, 50 people will be in each GS room. Every top guild will refuse to spar unless they have 5 online. 90% of them will make temporary recruits to have 5 on. They will be careful about who and when they spar. They'll reach a number that they're happy with and then spend the rest of their time on alternate tags. Some will be pathetic enough to even try to sabotage the scores of others by hoarding random people on alternate tags and trying to sync their queue time with real guilds.

Literally nothing is healthy or fun about that line of gameplay. It's a boring chore. I'd rather be seeded #32 through an auto-qualification than be seeded #1 through spending hours sparring noob guilds or guilds that are temporarily recruiting members at the arena. Those hours of timesink GSing could instead be invested in quality GSing.

Dude it's a tournament just like any other game. It's not a complicated nor complex topic whatsoever. I've played this game for far too long and it doesn't take much to understand the simplistic concepts of this game. If you know how to count to 10 then you basically meet the minimum requirements to understand everything on Graal.


I understand what is wrong with the leaderboard, I just disagree with the auto seeding suggestion you made. I also disagree with your weird logic of "effectively saying rant"... was very weird.


And they ultimately do qualify in the end, it doesn't even take much work to get seeded (using the old board). My guild literally did it in just a weekend basically last season.

You'll absolutely hate my suggestion- I think it should be harder to qualify. I won't go into the details though because you'd probably have an aneurysm.

First - seeding is not irrelevant. It's irrelevant to you but to some other people they actually do care (PS- I don't care but I know others that do). What needs to be fixed is the leaderboard.

What I'm saying is your concept of using GSTs wins as some excuse to potentially get auto seeded in any kind of way is just an absolutely terrible idea. You have a lot of good ideas but I do not like that idea at all and I explained why in my other post in a lot of detail. I'm not just saying it to disagree with you, I just don't like the idea and hope it's never considered... ever.

The current leaderboard system should be improved, agreed. Current leaderboard can be annoying... sure. I understand you're frustrated with having to work during the season to get placement but believe it or not there is a large # of players outside of the current sparring hivemind and not just people who post on this forum/guilds you care about -- and really guild sparring should appeal to everyone even if they suck.


Again, I absolutely do not like this idea in any shape or form.

I know you won't. It's a lot easier to criticize other people's ideas than come up with your own sensible and realistic solution to a problem that has existed for longer than you've played this server. You're just spamming "the current leaderboard sucks and this other idea sucks." That's near GOAT-tier level of contribution to this thread.

I also want to reiterate the fact you have a lot of good ideas, a lot I agree with. Just the auto-seeded one I have a strong disagreement on. I just wanted to make sure I was vocal to maybe prevent it from ever happening or being considered.

Everything in red in quotes what the hell are you even talking about?

Uh:
Are you just going to continue to wildly criticize the current leaderboard and other ideas, or are you actually going to suggest how to fix it?

Not to mention it's really pointless

You cut out pieces of my posts which are actually lengthy in detail and call it spam, again I have absolutely no idea what the hell you are saying besides the fact you don't like the fact I don't like your idea. I put detail into my post on why it's a bad idea and didn't just post "IT WOULD RUIN EVERYTHING" like everyone does here.

No I don't have a suggestion to fix it, I just don't like your recommendation about auto-seeding - that's it and I wanted to be vocal about it. Once they fix guild loyalty issue then I think the leaderboards would get better fairly quickly.

How they go about fixing that issue is on them.

Can't we just avoid this auto-seeding as a whole since guilds like SL will find it difficult to join by either adding the old gs points system back or even make a gs streak room? It would make gsing much more faster and easier to get the enormous amount of points you admins want us to get to qualify for something that we are obviously able to compete in.

^^^^^^
Agree with my buddy Alex Koga when he says its ridiculous, Its crazy that we need to spar people who aren't even able to kill off 1 player in a 3v5 and beat people like that 100's of times over which is boring.

Old gs system or seeding from previous gst results as thallen suggested.

fp4 already said in an earlier post he's either gonna revert it to that old points system or use rating ("showguildrating", might be broken right now)
They're basically the same exact thing, doesn't matter which he ends up using

Apostles, Blackout, VIS, CRZ, Rebellious, etc., organize yourselves and prepare for hours of queueing into 5 vs. 3s against kids that are fresh out of Balamb

Streak room for GS would be really nice

Making it only 1 GST and fix guild loyalty for leaderboards and it makes things more competitive imo

I guess I should elaborate that the way GST seeds teams is completely unaffected by the new scoreboards. The top 100 guilds by 'guild score' list is still maintained which is what the GST bracket generator still works off.

We had the same system as you set up last season, gs up to 7k then leave it be until gst week. Win the required amount of spars to show score again and get it all back which seeded us 2nd.

Cool. You said earlier that it was kind of awkward since there's only a seasonal display for those points, so it doesn't fit the leaderboard very well. Well, guild points are still shown in guild profiles. For example, go to the guild profile for "Blackout" and you'll see their GS points.

If you want to cheat your way out of fitting that onto it's own leaderboard, you could just replace the "Points: 5532" with "GS Rank: 7th" in guild profiles. You wouldn't even need a leaderboard then, people could evaluate if they'll qualify just based off of that.

This would also solve bracket fixing, since you used to be able to essentially look at the old leaderboard and dodge being in the same bracket as another team (if they're an even seed, you can get an odd seed to avoid them).

Theres no way people who aren't in top guilds like Alumni, crz, vis, Apostles, silver lion, blackout and demon will want 2 split GSTS formed into 1.
Everyone who plays this server has keyboardphobia and its literally a dead fad that keeps on resurrecting itself.

Guild loyalty once again is such an easy fix, just make it so only the people registered in the team can gs on that tag and they may only wear that tag until the GST is over.

I would honestly enjoy 1 GST but that's just me I guess

That's everyone who knows what the word competitive means.

1 gst would suck lol. Alumni, gteam or blackout are going to win every time hands down. Other pc teams that could have placed in a pc tournament like apostles, silver lion and demon would have no chance of placing because the top tier idev teams would destroy them and those idev teams will lose 0-2/0-3 to the 3 best pc teams. If anything the gst would be less competitive.
In addition, I don't want to spar the dragon ball z fan club/vpn city *cough dae and kuz*

gteam? ....

I feel like a PC team will win no matter what, but that's just my opinion. Either way, since the tournament is mixed, most of the teams will try to recruit at least a few if not 1 PC player. I know some mixed teams will try to get some really good idevs. It won't be one sided though, especially towards the finals.

Fp4 did claim he was removing the gst and rufus claimed he was removing the gst hats. Nothing happened, hence there will be two tournaments. A few mixed teams offered me this week. Don't see why people like this one tournament idea. Just means you pcs would be losing to alumni for another year lol

It would be mixed and there are some really good idev

ios app, lets make it idev only for competitiveness- opposite of what every pc players wanting

There are other ios games that are cross-platform, meaning pcs can play against idev and android players. It's all just a matter of how good you are, not the controls you use.

having 1 GST goes back to the "competition vs. difficulty" argument from another thread
the difficulty would be higher for everyone across the board but I think the level of competition would mirror what we have in Mixed, as in just 1 or 2 guilds that are way above the rest

that's probably not much fun for the other 62 teams
the "get good" rationale is fair, but it's worth it to at least consider their sentiment because taking something from people stings a lot worse than never having it

iOS is the minority platform on GraalOnline Classic these days FYI.

Exactly why you are doing two tournaments

Is it?

Can we see a distribution?

As we speak it isn't, but based on that survey from last year it is. I can't post those results, but right now its:

iOS players: 996
Web players: 431
Android players: 2440
-
Total: 3867

They're certainly not the majority anymore!

can we see the geographical segmentation?

We only tracked that for the month that I posted.

This is not a troll or argument, but I'm just going to throw some things at you to provoke some thinking.

You(along with every/most PC players) say Mix is more competitive.
You(along with every/most PC players) feel Mix has the better spar guilds.
ok

So why is it that it's only the PC players begging for a MERGER of teams?
Why are PC players so desperate to spar against idevicers("inferior sparers")?

You and every other PC player not in US, Mother, and Alumni's GST winning teams should win a GST first before asking for it to be more competitive.

You guys have bored Thallen to the point where he want to spar sucky idevicers in his desperation to meet a challenge. Maybe Fp4 should do what he said and just give Alumni the GST belt and have the rest of the mixed side fight for 2nd place.

Do what Goten suggested and cut both GST's in half. That would make the GST competitive AF for everybody, but Alumni. Mix teams need to step your game up, you fools going to bore Thallen into retirement.

Ok maybe just a lil troll <3 og. Who wants to bet old man got a boner after reading the alumni part?

So it's all the android that are taking over and causing lag?

When did the majority of graal's users start becoming more towards android side?

I think it's good for android, since recently google play games allowed it's users to record any game, including graal. I think it's only up to 720p, and the quality was a little weird.

But, since android is apparently the majority. Do the devs have any plans to optimize it more, perhaps adding controller support? Better response for touch controls? Fixing the sign font sizes?

Honestly, I just want to see if it's really based on device, or lag + delay, or just skill.

Letting this tournament happen, at least once, will put all other theories to rest.

Android rules :)

idev said they can rekt any teams below alumni.
lemme see :)

Yeah I get you, but I think top idevice teams would have a hard time with even the 3rd place finishers of the mix side and not because of skill. This is coming from someone that tested the difference between PC and devices. Nothing to do with "keyboardphobia" maybe I should start using "itouchphobia" :D

You have to be really good on one device to then transition to the other and say that the devices have a clear difference.

iDevs have advantages, just like PC does. It's how the player exploits those advantages, that will lead them to the win.

iDevs: Baiting (changing directions really fast, it's easy to make your opponent swing and miss, then push them) is easier.

Less lag, since your ms is lower due to optimization.

PC: strafing? I don't even use that at all anymore. Mostly cause, my keyboard sucks.

That's pretty much it... if I were to practice a lot on idev, then I would be better on that compared to PC, plus a few less ms wouldn't hurt as well.

My test were pretty basic. I spared certain people with my device and then I spared them with my PC. There were guys I could beat on my PC fairly easy while I struggled or barely beat them with my idevice. Did the same with pk'ng. I would pk with both back to back to see the difference. The only place where my idevice was better was in huge mobs.

How good is your pc?

You probably lagged a little on pc, which could have helped you beat players that you couldn't do on idev.

Or he wasn't used to it. The only real way to test it is to spend the exact same amount of time on each which is impossible to do with someone who played the game before, and painstaking otherwise even if someone grabbed their friend as a test subject.