Don't feel pressured to "fix" that people prefer to play the game a different way than others... The only instance in which it'd ever need to be changed is if it's actually affecting the experience of new players. Those riots that crowd the bridge and trap new players, that's lame, but trying to prevent players PKing in groups is dumb to me.

If I were a new player I would immediately delete the game lol

*shrug* I just find it cheap from the perspective as a player and staff. As a player I find it completely defeats the purpose of dying and instead just turns it into a mindless button mashing competition until you get bored. As staff it seems like the absolute worst kind of gameplay to provide players with and it devalues the statistics as you just sit in one spot for an hour+ spamming sword since as soon as you die touching anything puts you right back where you were to keep going until again, you get bored of smashing the sword key.

But that's just my opinion. Players hate it because it would make their kills++ harder to get.

Why don't they have designated pk zones then , if people really want to pk away from towers they can pk in places away from buildings meaning people can actually access them without dying 50 times , designated as pk zones.
Even better they could have you spawn outside the zone when u die , so u actually have to go back in and start pking again , rather than standing still and spamming sword and only using arrows to get up when they die.
This would at least make things a little more competitive and skill based and definitely bring the pking away from bridges and buildings if they just disabled sword outside

I don't know, I've been asking and wondering that since I started here. The adoption center used to be a PK level, no one used it. No one uses the war room in the arena. Never really understood why there isn't some designated PK area with obstacles and a respawn point, etc.

I would much rather have them be out in the field then at MoD's door.

I can say that I've given up caring much about it, since it won't change at the moment. I wanted to compete on the leaderboard, but since it's 90% mob pkers who get thousands of kills in the time where I get 500, I have given up on that. My only hope for climbing is that they don't have the stamina.

Not that im calling anyone out, but I can tell who has mob pk'ed and who hasn't. The skill level difference you see between someone who has gotten 100k at towers or even just pking in the field out of the mobs and someone who has used mobs to get to 100k, the difference is profound. Some of them spar so it is harder to tell, but it is noticeable. Knowing where to move in specific towers comes with time spent, sparring can't teach you that.

Though not being on the leaderboard makes me pk for fun, which is how it should be.


Edit: thinking on it more, a possible solution would be an a board that takes kills - deaths and sends out the result that way. That would make being in a mob detrimental to your leaderboard spot.

One argument that I'll argue against(though no one has presented yet) "what about those who arrow into mobs? There ratio would be high"

Yes it would be, but there would be no point for making the mob in the first place(unless they were going for total kills).

Heck, maybe even display that on the profile instead. You could say "showkills" to see your pure kills, just like show deaths.

The only issue I see is those who gain deaths by Bking. Sparring you could just add the spar death total back, or just minus deaths by spar losses. Bking would have to either be addressed or ignored.

Though people would complain about their total kills dropping.

You da real MVP! Couldn't agree more...


P.S. Fix the GS leaderboards already omfg...

There's a huge riot by Angel Clan and looks like it may transition to the bridge

Tower pking only or make these areas with 25+ people invisible

I don't see how I'm proving your point. You compared the all-time list with the first to reach X amount of stats as being the same. I explained why I don't see it that way. Not arguing the validity of the all-time list or it's meaning, what I'm saying is that's not the same as the first to reach list.

As for the stats from different eras being different to acquired is nonsense. EP got 10k in 2011, so I don't see how can the argument be that today people are able to get more kills. He spent like half a year getting 2k plus. Xenthic became a pkr after the leader board was release along with 90% of the old all-time board and they made it very easy to get kills since most of them were pk'ng mod. Maybe there was a small window frame between when the outside of mod became non-pk and the birth of mob pk'ng where it was harder to get kills, but it wasn't a long period.



To you the leader board might not be any better. You want a leader board that represents "skill", but for everybody else, now they have a way to brag over another sparer. Not to mentioned a player can spar for a day and "show" his dominance instead of feeling like they have to no life it.


Let me ask you a question. Say they read this and go you know what "He's right let me bring the all-time board back" What will be the point? In a year the all-time top 25 is going to be filled with reward chasers.

Let it be known that I the mighty GOAT came up with the phrase reward chasers. Screw these noobs, they're not real pkrs they're reward chasers. Take that to the first person who said hat chasers.


How is it any different from players that want temporary validation for being the most "skilled" sparer. Also, like I mentioned earlier if the rewards are good the leader board will probably change drastically if they put it somewhere in the library. I guess we can agree that it's pointless to complain about it since most of the people crying will be moved from the list anyways.

Ez whoever doesn't get a end of season reward gets a crying gani as a consolation prize.



people shouldn't be awarded for playing, but if somebody is willing to contribute X amount of hours of "mindless" activity for a reward let them have it.

Couldnt have explained this better.
++ I still support warping respawns.

I was too lazy to read what everybody posted but If you check my posts or have ever talked to me about leaderboards, I've been saying we should have this exact system for about... 2 years now. Shout out to all the people who said "Qes the staff would never do this, think about all the hours pkers with 100k+ who put into the old leaderboard" HAA. Even feedbacked this idea a few times. Wonder if they heard my idea or somebody out there is just as smart as me lmfao

Tried out mob pking recently, Honestly have no idea why people care about what others do over a video game. It's almost like some of you people are obsessed with staying on the leader board when it does not even show who the most skilled "pker" is anyway, It's literally a board to show who is the most active and who pks for the longest periods of time.

Its the exact same with sparring, I'm placed 7th or 8th for seasonal points, if I win 10 spars I gain around 150 points. Now think about how many wins me as someone going for 20k wins or someone chasing 10k wins ends up getting a day. I could win 200-300 in a day and make up a tonne of points. Once again showing who is the most active and who spends most of their time in game sparring.

None of these boards reflect skill it only reflects activity.

Also the guild spar leaderboard needs to be changed again. Or go ahead and seed guilds according to their gst placements.

wants easy pk and/or wins, complains when no skill needed (not directed at anyone)

hmm

Are you... forecasting pk mobs?

http://i.imgur.com/z2l58hg.png
http://i.imgur.com/Ev4orLq.png
http://i.imgur.com/HyV8npg.png

LOL

im reporting rape, looting, and arson. roughly 500,000 deaths.

SPORTS!

#BringBackOldGSLeaderboards

We are going to stop collecting data from non-identified accounts and remove it from the score boards (most people visible on the top 50s are).

So identify your accounts if you haven't already.

I've also figured out why the spar data was inconsistent and will be fixing that as well. Spar data is device and country specific now so if you've sparred on more than one device or country it could be referencing the wrong data.

Filtering by country and your device type will give show the proper score until it's fixed.

Rip McTrollz publicity method

But...who will kik him now?http://imgur.com/BIyUf8V.png
http://imgur.com/bM86TWW.png

I do not understand :|

can you explain why?

The points system I laid out works well for singles, but there are way too many loopholes in GS that make it kinda bad. As it incorporates a measure of activity, it's basically just encouraging guilds to spam recruit players and spar as many 5 vs. 2 guild spars as possible. It's pretty disadvantageous to quality guilds. It's basically bringing the whole "noob recruiting" strategy that dominates towers to GSing.

What I recommended a few other times is that you guys create another filter for both singles and GS, just Rating. I'm not sure if "showrating" or "showguildrating" work anymore, but they should. The Rating filter (for GS) is how you guys should seed the GST teams. It's very similar to how the previous GS points worked anyway, but this way doesn't require any additional algorithm. You'd just take Graal's default spar rating system and put it all in a database and sort it.

This way, you can keep the existing GS leaderboard and encourage activity (which I think is a great thing), but GST seeding will be based on the Rating filter (not Points or Wins), which is a lot more skill-intensive. Or, you can just revert back to the old points you used for GS before January, but I don't really see the point of not putting "showrating" and "showguildrating" to use. They're practically the same from what I understood.

Either that, or something I posted earlier:
Regarding the whole 5 vs. 2 issue anyway, why don't you guys make it dynamically scale HP to team size? As in, if you're a team of 2 facing a team of 5, the team of 2 gets 7.5 hearts each (since the team of 5 has 15 HP total). I know there are some team sizes that won't divide perfectly, but any rough adjustment will be better than nothing. I don't know how easy that is to pull off. It's still very advantageous to the team of 5, but at least it softens it a bit. If that was the case then even the current leaderboard would be fine.

This would be so fun

This would encourage GS guilds to stick together as they more be likely to qualify if they continually enter teams.

Well, the whole issue resolves around the fact that the guild system is poor right now, so everything being suggested feels like a temporary fix until then. If there was a system in place that punished guilds when players left or were kicked and rewarded guilds for natural and positive activity, many of these guild-related issues would be fixed by proxy.

Guilds have practically no value and they're basically just a tag being used a vessel to get things in the easiest way possible. That's what encourages recycling tower guilds, it's what encourages temporary recruits to GS tags to improve GST seeding, etc. Staff know that though and I'm sure it's on their checklist for the future.

Jerret, it was a refreshing update with 1v1 sparring and so I give you Rufus and anyone else involved in the update props for that...But using the same system for guild-spar just doesn't work...I've tested out the leaderboard after GSing for a few hours over a span of a few days with guild members.

I just came up with a few criticisms:

-Guilds no longer lose points for losing spars in guild-spar...this encourages mass-recruiting by guilds with no real downfall as they'll just eventually get a high rank in the leaderboards with no real skill needing to be shown.

-The amount of points you get per win is insane...On average I think from my estimations from winning every spar...sparring every two spars it took 1hour to achieve just a LITTLE bit over 100 points.

-Makes guild-sparring seem like a pain...It's not really fun if you have to spend hours just to make it to the top 50...especially since it's top 32 to qualify for Mixed GST... Qualifying in GST should be most skilled not most active in my opinion.

-Top 50 shown...iDevice is top 64...Unless iDevice is moving to only 32 teams it's a pain to see where guilds rank and see if you can qualify for idevice or not.

-Guilds with a head-start...Some guilds had like a very big headstart in the new system which is hours of time saved by them and makes it harder for many of the guilds who don't GS that early on in the season having to catch up.

Advantages of current leaderboard:
-Encourages people to use their main tags and less practice tags.
-Gives newer less skilled guilds a good chance in qualifying for GST.
-Encourages activity with certain guilds a lot earlier in the season.


Possible improvements:

-Penalty for losing.

-Limit the amount of guilds you can GS with at BA for a time-span e.g. You can only GS at the BA with like 2/3 different guilds per-week...or any suitable time-frame...This would be to discourage people using practice tags for the time being until a more improved and thought out system is put in place. The problem with the last leaderboard was that many people were hesitant to use their main tag due to everyone using practice tags with low score which brought their score down lots...this always lead to many guilds selectively sparring at BA.

-Ratio having no affect on the GS score obtained...In the last leaderboard I saw that the better ratio you had in GS the more points you got per-win...I don't know if this was intentional but there was definitely a correlation between the two. I haven't really GS'd with different ratio guilds in this leaderboard but if this stayed could it please be removed.

-A bracket system sorted out e.g. will it remain being determined by your position in GS leaderboards or not...I think it should remain in your GS leaderboard rank because by the time it's the quarter finals/ semi finals it's only good teams left in both idevice and mixed GST which makes for some great matches...

-GS Streak room...This isn't really to do with the leaderboards but it'd make it much more fun getting points if there was a streak room.

-Better point scaling per win...Haven't really noticed a huge point increase when beating random teams and teams who are within the top #5.


EDIT: I might have repeated some points as Thallen didn't read his post till after I wrote this...

Also really tired when I wrote this so apologies if I repeated some points.

Not sure if it's been brought up cause there's too many pages to read but how will the new guild spar system work with the upcoming gst? Just wondering so that I can see if the team I'm doing gst with, will need to build up points by sparring 5387876 times in the next 7 weeks to match up with the season's current scoreboard.

In the current system of guild sparring and points, you need to spar 24/7 in order to get anyway near the leader board if you're starting from nothing.

"man we need something that prevents last minute GST teams"

ok now guilds have to GS to earn a spot

"man thats not fair people have to no-life it to make it to the GST"

Ok let's go back to square one.


How can you not love classic.

i have an idea for this. prob said it in my gst idea thread, but here we go again.

have a registration desk open 1 month before the gst.
close the registration a week before the gst.
all the qualified teams can enter this arena (made specifically for gst purposes and opens only during the gst week)
teams can only enter with their gst members, doesn't matter sub or core.

Do what ph8 said. Half the seeding determined by this, the other half determined quicktourney style.

is the quicktourney like on a specific date? i dont get it but it sounds cool

Leaderboards = guaranteed spot while everyone else has to win a spot via a qualifying bracket? Then again that might be more work than it's worth.

That doesn't fix the problem of the GS leaderboard essentially encouraging the behavior of spam recruiting everyone to get to the top

That does sound like way too much work, I'd be bored going through a qualifier tournament
It's already hard enough to get everyone online on the date of the GST

My post from the last page has several ways you can fix this: http://www.graalians.com/forums/show...&postcount=328

On the majority of GSTs (for me at least) Classic lags like crazy, so it doesn't seem like a problem to get everyone online at them same time.

I think he meant getting his full team online and making room in their daily schedules for it.

Screw a point system and a win system for GSt participation.

Only real GS guilds should be able to participate.

Thallen's idea would cement those guilds who have participated before a spot in the GST. Like how a host country gets an auto qualification in the FIFA World Cup, similarly.

I don't like the auto qualify suggestion at all.

Why not? I understand it means SL wouldn't qualify immediately but after a few more it will apply to you as well, if that's the qualm. I really don't mind top team privelage, as it just assumes the inevitable. It's like saying a 16-0 team in football shouldn't get a bye because they're on equal footing with a team that barely made it through a wildcard game. Clearly, the 16-0 had earned a spot. The only thing you really assume is that a guild like this wouldn't fail to beat a bunch of noob teams outside of like 5 to qualify, which is a pretty obvious assertion. Saying no because a guild like this "has a chance to lose to noobs" is pretty bad logic imo.

Logic doesn't work with football analogy. Football plays full seasons that go into playoff/tourney for position, they don't go by previous championships because it's not relevant to the current seasonal tournament. Their whole system relies around that current season for playoff positioning (as are most sports). It's also useless and doesn't clear up any of the problems and I don't see the point at all or what it would solve.

If there was like a season of GST and not just tourneys that would make more sense (where people battle for position... that was the point of the bracket system in the first place... but it's obviously skewed and that's what should be fixed). This also would make more people aiming to get into top guilds because of previous wins and easier ride. I'd like a fix where it's more spread out and not as risky for people who want to try a different guild/opportunity or try to create their own thing. Winning GST should just be what it is (and what it is in every other sport)... you won the championship, you got your hats/trophies, bragging rights and after the championship the season resets. Some guilds after winning/seasons adjust and their lineups change drastically over time... people leave/go on hiatus or quit ... does that mean that the guild that has 50%+ new people should just be auto top seed just because of their tag they are wearing has won previous GSTs?

Just because there is a dominant team in GST doesn't mean there should just be an exception for them to have a ride to top seed.

I just think the suggestion is boring and solves absolutely nothing. Every guild should have to work every season to get into seed position no matter what their previous GST records are. What happened in previous GSTs isn't relevant to the present upcoming GST nor should it ever be in terms of bracket positioning.

Every guild deserves a shot to being top seeded, even the nooby guilds... auto seed based on previous winners absolutely caters to previous GST winners. You wan't to create a system that gives equal chance for everyone new or old. That's just my opinion... going by previous GST wins is a poopy idea.

agree w/james, granting seeds to teams that have previously placed in gsts just seems like a selfish "we're too lazy to guildspar so just put us in because we just won" idea. should just make the move back to a rating leaderboard which we have never had problems with for gst seeding.

the GST seeding will still be done by rating.

the problem with a rating filter is that it really only applies to the season as a whole and not day/week/month.

*shrug*

I just hate that people who mass tag can get infinite points now. Makes it a very daunting task to gs. Maybe it's subconscious bias that I don't want to have to get on and work for it. I think still that the loyalty of the guild system being changed would fix, or make it super easy to fix, a lot of these issues. If guilds lost points for tagging and kicking then we wouldn't see these rises. If loyalty was promoted then seeding could work cause teams wouldn't get new rosters every single season because they want to desperately try to assemble a star team. So many options revealed by that implementation, everything now just seems like putting a band-aid on a leak until you can fix the pipe.

Probably far-fetched but I always thought it'd be cool if the amount of GS wins a player has on a certain tag, how active they are on it, etc, was recorded and used in some way

Like if a guild wins a spar match and it's the first win for each player on that tag, they wouldn't get as many points as they would if they had won the match and each had 10 wins on that tag already.

This could still be abused probably but it always seemed like a cool concept to me and would require you to GS with your actual team to get a high rating but I guess if you kept noob recruiting you could just boost wins for certain members while others were offline

I guess the idea is sort of like having it so each player has a personal rating in their guild, I'm not sure if it would work well on Graal though and it does have a nice list of flaws

I like that idea as well, RS sort of has a system like that and it works great but their guild system is much more in-depth.

Yeah if I need 1000+ guild spar wins to enter the gst I don't think I would bother. The old points system was good because its more based on skill than who gses the most. Probably speaking for 90% of the spar community by saying I won't enter if I need so and so wins to qualify past noob guilds that mass recruit everyday. Fp4 or rufus, get off the high horse that you are on and admit these changes suck and just fix them zzz