Graalians - Guild Forts - Too many or Not enough?

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- - Guild Forts - Too many or Not enough? (https://www.graalians.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28105)

Quote:

Posted by GOAT (Post 553954)

Disclaimer: Joking I actually think this is a great idea. I really felt that the only way the towering system would be improved would be by re-doing the guild system like the dust man said, but this might actually work. Gives noob guilds a chance(well a realistic chance) to get into the towering business and it forces all those adult filled guilds to actually compete for towers. The only thing I would say is to add another tower for the 1k plus guilds.

Please refer to my comment about the kingmaker effect.

Quote:

Posted by deadowl (Post 553957)

Please refer to my comment about the kingmaker effect.

Quote:

Posted by deadowl (Post 553952)

If the same guilds are holding all the forts then there's probably a burn out of people trying to take the forts from them.

See: No "kingmaker effect"

Yes, I see what you mean. Now the question is why is that happening and can it be fixed. Is it the players fault or is the system setting them up for failure.

Quote:

Posted by GOAT (Post 553960)

Yes, I see what you mean. Now the question is why is that happening and can it be fixed. Is it the players fault or is the system setting them up for failure.

There are plenty of games where it isn't a problem, which makes this a systemic issue. I think that article provides a good ideal to aim for. Mind you, the article is in a magazine about board games, board games have thousands of years more history to learn from than MMOs, and that existing research done on board games has been used to show why some MMOs succeed and others fail.

Quote:

Posted by GOAT (Post 553954)

This is by far the dumbest idea I have ever heard. 0/10

redacted

Quote:

Posted by Dusty (Post 553963)

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Those are excellent ideas to reward the guild as opposed to the individual players. Not sure if its feasible but maybe the points can also be used to add rooms to guildhalls, increase the maximum number of members allowed in 'high level' guilds. This will defo make the game more enjoyable in all aspects. Especially towering, this is in direct contrast to seeing the same 15 goons changing tags like clothes to get new hats.

It sounds like a major overhaul of the system though but would be worth it if it can be implemented.

Quote:

Posted by deadowl (Post 553962)

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I see what you mean, but I wasn't saying it was a better solution than redoing the guild system. I was just acknowledging that there was another way it could possibly be fixed.

Quote:

Posted by Dusty (Post 553963)

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If you, rufus, or fp4 could do this the players would idolize you even more. I think the majority of the competitive community would love it if this happened, but is it possible. Would Xor or whoever makes the final call allow this(im guessing it would put a limit on joined guilds or else it would be back to the same problem). This wouldn't just improve the towering system, it would probably make guild spar better too. I've said it before when players complain, even if someone is willing to work on something it doesn't mean it would be approved by management/ownership.

Quote:

Posted by Dusty (Post 553963)

redacted

I talk a lot of crap about pc graal, but the one thing I liked about it was the guild loyalty that players showed. If what you mentioned above would come to fruition it would make classic much better.

Quote:

Posted by Dusty (Post 553963)

I have little experience guilding, but in my opinion the ideal thing to do is to reward guilds

Now you aren't talking about just the tower system... some of your points seem good, but could be abused like the heal/attack flag one.

Maybe if a guild shop were to be added where you can buy things like furniture for guild's house, 5+ member expansion slots, guild hat tokens, guild shield tokens, guild house room expansions.

Sure you could add more events, but in the end I feel as if the events will end up being "Guild Chance", not sure why...

If rewarding a guild based on points then the system would have to be done in a way that guilds can't help each other out, which is what I posted earlier. If you add things like taking the tower for points, then I can see guilds letting friendly guilds take and then they let them take it, and repeat... not a good system.

The hour system is fine how it is, you can use hours as milestones to unlock rewards as you gain tower hours. Maybe even milestones like holding 2 towers, holding 3, 4, etc could unlock certain rewards, instead of just making the guild look like a huge monster with a lot of people on.

Example of milestones: (rewards need to be done based on a much more friendly difficulty so that guilds can progress quick at first, then work harder later on)

Reach 10 hours: Your guild has gained a guild house. 10 hours is good, because some guilds don't like to tower and are just family based.

Reach 50 hours: Your guild has gained a +5 member expansion, enjoy!

Reach 100 hours: Your guild gained a shield token.

Reach 500 hours: Your guild has gained a guild house room expansion, enjoy!

Reach 1000 hours: Congratulations! Your guild has received a hat token, Good Job!

Every 1000 hours from this point on can be a guild house room expansion slot.

5k: another hat token

10k: mount token

I do like your idea about the guild having to be on tag to wear the hat though, that would make guilds more loyal. And you would feel kind of obligated to stay in that guild forever, since if you care about the hat, then you wouldn't leave.

Quote:

Posted by Dusty (Post 553963)

redacted

Sounds good, when's it happening XD

Quote:

Posted by GOAT (Post 553980)

even if someone is willing to work on something it doesn't mean it would be approved by management/ownership.

Sadly, sometimes the people that have the best ideas and want to help the game grow aren't the ones calling the shots. Would be nice if ideas could be shouted out in the game, and people could vote for them in the game.

The fundamental issue is the kingmaker effect. Guild towers are isolated enough that devs can experiment. I understand the time issue, but towering is pretty much one of the core selling points of Graal in the present time, i.e. a major gameplay feature. I would personally seek to experiment on MoD for any changes. I would also ignore verbal feedback that doesn't align with overall participation in towering.

So went through some old files and this is apparently the way I had set it up (the current manner is closer to the Classic MoD towering style).

1. Begin round.
2. Guild ownership of the flags switches on one sword hit -- major difference.
3. A guild has to hold the flag for a full two minutes to win.
4. Winner is announced and a guild victory logged after the flag is held for two minutes.
5. Next round begins 15 seconds later.

Playing in this mode was very intense, and the average number of players at the time might have been like 30-50 total on the server. It didn't get much play though, simply because the server population was so low. Either a decay on the 120 seconds needed or a lower time assignment to holding the flag for victory might be needed in the current climate to make winning a round even possible.

I imagine someone rescripted the whole thing to be more like the original Classic MoD fort after the fact.

PHP Code:


		
			
function onCreated() {
  this.roundDelay = 15;
  this.roundTime  = 120;
  setshape(1,128,160);
  setTimer(this.roundDelay);
  chat = serverr.guildfortMoD;
}
function onSlash() {
  if (player.guild && this.inplay) {
    if (serverr.guildfortMoD != player.guild) {
      setTimer(this.roundTime);
      serverr.guildfortMoD = player.guild;
      chat = serverr.guildfortMoD;
    }
  }
}
function onTimeOut() {
  switch (this.inplay) {
  case 2:
    chat = "WINNER!" SPC serverr.guildfortMoD;
    serverr.guildfortMoD_master = serverr.guildfortMoD;
    savelog2("guildhistory_" @ "MoD" @ ".txt",serverr.guildfortMoD);
    setTimer(this.roundDelay);
    break;
  case 1:
    chat = serverr.guildfortMoD;
    setTimer(this.roundTime);
    break;
  default:
    chat = "START!";
    setTimer(3);
    break;
  }
  ++this.inplay%=3;
}

Rufus was around then. Don't know if he participated when this was implemented, but I'm sure he might have some input.

I don't even like to consider York to be a proper tower. It looks hastily done and poorly designed. Aside from desiring more territory to explore I propose tweaking current infrastructure first. But we can always use more towers. 😉

Quote:

Posted by reyalS (Post 554267)

York is one of the best. It has multiple strategies to it, and rewards skilled/knowledgeable players

York fort looks amazing aside from the crappy flag design it has. If you know how to strategize well, you'll have that fort under control.

In the end I think everyonr wants more motivation to stick with a guild and have rewards tjat dont take ages to achieve