zanza used to be popular bec of the admins who run it and they used to abuse allies for subs to reach 10k,but they only recruited inside zanza family.
so they abused allies but not as much as Chain of memories and VG did.
now? now they barley exist, zanza is full of the inactive zanza oldies,anubis sparrers,and staff.

1. They reached 1k, not 10k, and I believe it took them 16 months.

2. Untrue, at some point near 800 hours, they had a "Helsing helper" guild named HeIsing (with an i) used for temps. It wasn't allied, though.

3. And how does Zanza having subs count as "not abusing as much" as CoM or VG, taking the above statement into account?

1. That's because zanza is a family guild not a tower taking guild. I was in it for a little and basically it went like this: member: hey wanna take a tower guys I'm bored. Leader: sure everyone get your helsing tags! Not like other tower guilds. Who just take towers 24/7 trying to get their hat as fast as possible.

2. Not allied doesn't count. You can have as many unallied helpers as you want. That's not abuse of the system.

3. Theyre not noobcruiting like most others. They had subs and everything but they were filled with loyal members. They never recruited temps.

They did. And it got annoying after a while.

Godzilla, your idea of a temp is far different than mine... A temp in Magic and many other guilds refers to a member in the testing phase. It's to see if that player would make a good permanent member. I think it's pefectly fine if guilds want to do this.

Let's get this clear once and for all. Ventrue and Charm both use subs as allies. Guess that means they "abuse" allies as well, right? As for Knoble, I was curious and checked out the member list: About 6-8 out of the 18 members were off-tag, so there goes the loyalty aspect.

I'll agree on US, but they are the outlier here. Can't expect every guild to be like that, especially since this server is mostly made up of younger people that don't value a guild tag.

It's odd how people defend Zanza and act as if them using allies is somehow legit. Not to mention the 5 staff member leaders and countless staff still loyal to it. Seems pretty easy to take towers when you have a never ending supply of quality people asking to join.

no, theyre not doing subs, theyre doing guild expansions through the allies system. the limited number of guild people, which is very small, makes this necessary. they dont have a war guild, and they dont recruit temps. i dont really have a problem with subs, or guild expansions, but i think it should be done in moderation. a guild and an expansion then 4 other allies. or even 3 guilds. the point of this post is to try and get guilds to recruit loyal members. this means making as many guilds as you need, and filling them with loyal members. fill one guild and still have people who want to join? fine get another. but most guilds dont have 100 loyal members. and therefore dont need that many guilds. make your guild a little exclusive when it begins to get popular, dont recruit temps, etc. you dont want to be recruiting random people, and you dont want to immediatly make 6 guilds with your friends. take it slow. advent really doesnt need the 7 guilds it has.

and @yephen: trial period is a much better way to test people. seems like its just an excuse to recruit temps.

Haha no offence, but you're really confusing.

what are you confused about?

A "guild expansion" is the same thing as a sub. Subs have nothing to do with recruiting temps.

Guild expansions are Allied guilds expanding on the current one to fit more members. They don't have a war guild. Sub guilds are guilds which hold members to be recruited to the regular guild, or war guild, when taking towers and such.

All of my active US members on Classic are young and they seem to hold some value.

That makes no sense. Of course those guilds have "war guilds". Whenever Ventrue/Charm take a tower or guild spar, I'm pretty sure they would recruit members from their allies to help out.

First it was "Any guild that uses allies as extra guild space is abusing", now it's "Well, it's okay to have subs as allies as long as they pretend they're just expansions". You can't just do a 180 like that and expect your argument to be taken seriously.

@Rufus, I'm just pointing out that most players on iPhone have no problem with guild hopping and disregarding loyalty.

Ch4rM has a war guild. It's called PeNd4nT - it operates in the same exact way Helsing did.

they dont really take towers in the first place. because the member limit in a guild is so small many times its necessary to expand. im making the argument that people dont value a guild. and the fact that people need to have so many branches in their guild, and recruit temps reflect this. im saying you should be selective. ive always been saying that. you shouldnt just recruit someone because they want to be in the guild, there should be some set requirements. this will lead to your member knowing eachother better, being more faithful because membership wasnt just given to them, and leaders wont have to kick people for every little thing.

You just described my guild NAL except they are none of those critical things. And I can say the same for CoM (actually made a new acc on another device to if they would RC and they did. I stayed for 5 days before revealing who I was.) now go somewhere else and rage.

Irony, nufsed.

He just described every single guild in the top 10.

That is asking for something that can not be done. In all honesty, Ch4rm IS THE ONLY somewhat good example of this. People will always be kicked for stupid, sometimes good reasons, but that is just how it goes. Till everyone can come to an agreement it is impossible.

Lmao, yet another example of how you are completely oblivious to the way things are in the game itself.

I don't believe I commented on this yet and I'm too lazy to read through over a hundred comments so I'm just going to respond to the thread itself. This game is lacking some loyal guilds. I see very few that show it's one of those guilds. In my opinion, the lack of loyal guilds is caused by the dramastic amount of guilds out there. The thoughts going through people's heads like "Why join a guild when I can make my own?" They then recruit friends or random people and it becomes inactive. A lot of people forget what have a guild is supposed to be about. FUN. You're supposed to make friends with guild members, do activities together, fight for each other, etc. I'm not going to name the guilds I see with this because there are probably more out there I just haven't seen.

No they dont value loyal members. They recruit everyone. They recruit temps.

Look this is how it is: I'd love for all guilds to be like US. No temps, 1 guild, close friends, etc. but that's not happening. The multiple guilds allied to make a bigger one will stay. However these guilds can ATLEAST can try to recruit all loyals. Make it so you need a recommendation to get in, interview them and ten do a trial period. People shouldn't just w recruited they should earn a recruit. Guilds don't need as many subs as they have to succeed. A guild with 3 subs of loyal members will beat a temp recruiting guild with 4 subs any day. Because the people in it like it, they earned their spot they're not just gonna throw it away.

Dude you cannot change peoples ideals. No one is going to change the way they take towers if it works and believe me it works.

Kids need to simmer down.

guys, quit naming iphone guilds and adding them to the equation.
Guilds were meant to be as i said,
1.allies as actualy friendly guilds that you are not against
2.guild with 100% loyal members
3. members only kicked when they break rules
4. people are in 1 guild max at a time

instead?

1.allies are used as subs
2.members join any guild unset set randon tags,are loyal to dozens of guilds. Loyalty of iclassic=staying with the guild till you get 1k hat,
3. members are put into subs and kicked when offline
4.people are joining and leaving guilds like its nothing.
now you will fight me to the end because you dont want to be wrong but by doing the 2nd list of things are indeed abusing the way guild system were built to work.



No they dont value loyal members. They recruit everyone. They recruit temps.

Look this is how it is: I'd love for all guilds to be like US. No temps, 1 guild, close friends, etc. but that's not happening.
boom^ its not going to ever have a full effect due to ignorant people who kick+rec all there way to the big 1k.
but! if people start formulating into REAL guilds "like US" we can have some competion. Ventrue VS Charm was fun,
btw i am being a hypocrit bec i quit ventrue! but instead of going back to my old ways i joined knoble.

WHAT I AM GETTING TO
people should make there own loyalty guilds with the help of there friends. every great guild starts with 2-5 good friends.

Corrected it for you,You got kicked due to being in so many guilds,There for not being loyal so all this you have been posting up is pure hypocrisy,It's all bogus and lies.

What Gambit means is that you were kicked for being in too many guilds, and your posts are hypocritical.

Rufus, like you know whats better for the majority; all your great updates only benifited a small amount of people in the game. Why don't you use your magical talents to fix major problems before your needs? That is the truth.

lol false, i wanted to leave ventrue and i told angelus. than i went to my guild tag and went to bed overnight i was kicked and than i joined Knoble.

"small amount" that small amount happens to be the people who log on graal day after day to spar, and we never get spar updates. it was a big thing for that "small amount" and i think your on the wrong thread

That's harsh.
From what i know Rufus has done a lot and i think he deserves some respect. I think his work has bennefited the whole server, not just a select few... His "needs" would be stuff he is passionate about or interested in. Why wouldn't he help in those areas? I'm not trying to get involved with your dispute, but i find that kind of rude. :dazed:

What have you done for this server?

"when a player hosts better events than staff thats sad,"-Trip
rufus contributions:graalians.com,gst, more pkable land,spar update,
even if you do not agree with rufus or dislike him personally,going against him would be making iclassic decline because all he had done is make it better.

ok we are realy going off topic now lol.

You wanted to leave Ventrue but didn't you kept up bringing up excuses when really you could have left we weren't holding you back I might have talked to you when you BARELY joined but that's about it then after Angelus caught you multiguilding with several other serious guilds that is when he kicked you.The next day was when I got your rage message and saw your rage status "Screw Ventrue" was a bit funny seeing as how you got caught multiguilding and you're on here talking about "Loyalty" you wouldn't know what "Loyalty"is if it smacked you on the face.With that said I think I should stop I've said what I had to say towards you.

He's helped out the whole damn server dude LMAO,Not trying to bash on you but if it wasn't for Rufus's ideas or updates the server would be how it was before..boring and nothing fun to look forward to.

lmao wow. what exactly have you done for this server again? youve been hired here for a while now why dont you fix them? and they have benifited a lot of people actually. at least hes actually helping the server and doing work for it while you just run around with your boots all day hugging people. rufus is actually making updates which make the game fun. while most of them are for sparrers, and people who like the fighting aspect of the game, so what?

My reaction to Gambit owning qes and Rufus owning Elly

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/ima...ing/smith2.gif

Do you read what you type?

crawl back into the dumpster kiddo

Yes.

With all due respect, you are wrong. Rufus is not a staff member, therefore it really isn't his job to use "magical talents" to fix major problems you find. Simply, he has ideas and goes through with them. He also does it without anyone asking him to.

Also, his ideas and updates benefit the whole server. Be honest, how often do you say showlag when you are curious about a lag spike? Thank Rufus. People have been complaining about how tower guilds always have all the fun.. Well, Rufus gave competitive spar guilds a competition of their own, as well. Now, he has fixed the unfair ratings and records, and made spar so much more fun for so many people. In fact, yesterday night, the average player count in any single spar room almost tripled!

This is a defensive argument on my part. I am in no way trying to offend you, because I know you are a Graal Police staff, and it is not your job to develop updates for the server. I am, however, going to say that you probably didn't have much of a right to flame my friend for all he's done, if it isn't your job and you have done less anyway. You are a great GP, but leave the developing to the developers and/or very generous players.

On the other hand, if you think someone should focus on another topic while developing, let your voice be heard! No need for an argument if you avoid conflict in the first place. You may have sent your message to him in the wrong way. Why not suggest a better way to aid the server to developers, since it is their job anyway? :)

EDIT: Let's get back on topic.. :x

Rufus just tries to take over any server he plays on.

If he does that while benefiting the server, who cares? It might be more fun.

why is this still going? *yawns*

Wondering the same. It's all off-topic, so I'm expecting someone to close the thread already.

Basically- Guild Loyalty is all well and good, it'd be amazing if it happened more, but it probably won't because a lot of the kids who play iGraal DO NOT CARE. :I

(Sadly)

Guild loyalty is not all well and good but it probably won't change.

How is it not all well and good? I think it is. It's great to have members who stick around.

several other guilds? seriously? i helped som1 gs bec ventrue had 0 online. and idc i wanted to leave anyways to join knoble.

Point of my discussion is to stick to one guild at a time °.° and for leaders to not make subs ,and to stop kicking and recruiting for towers all the time

ooooh. oops lol misunderstanding. i thought you meant everything was fine and that members were all loyal enough.

• Started 'doing things' on Classic by creating TaylorRichaards.com with Jazz. In addition to providing players with a complete resource for shields and swords we also hosted competitions for furniture. This furniture (mirror, chest, clothing stands, etc) were made by fp4 and I.
• Annoyed by the auto-losing in spars, I suggested a fix for it and Twinny added it.
• Realized that it was annoying for groups of people to leave their houses/guildhouses while farming, and therefore created bomb and arrow vendors with fp4.
• Got several hats released that "admins" were showing off as their own exclusives. Hats that were not created for or by them.
• Created a status generator with Jazz after realizing how annoying it was to type that stuff out on an iPhone.
• Got the "bees knees" area created and added.
• Removed individual spar ratings, disabled horses, and fixed the player freezing in guild spars with fp4.
• Introduced the GST as an "unofficial" event and organized the entire thing by myself. After the first tournament -- which my guild did not win -- the event was turned into something official. I've been doing the GST ever since with fp4 who has scripted an entire system for it based on my design.
• Added the much requested 'showlag' command via fp4.
• Created this site so that the community had an outlet for discussion and ideas. Playercards for signatures were added via Jazz and fp4.
• Designed, created and implemented the entire RPS feature with fp4.
• Added several levels from old Classic and secret areas for people to discover with gralat chests in them.
• Created bat baddies at Halloween with fp4.
• Got baddies to drop gralats via fp4.
• Scripted and created ganis for the Murder Mystery crap.
• Created the Christmas Presents system with fp4 and a bunch of other players two days before Christmas Day. Several items were also created for this project, such as the Piano, Password Block, Target, etc, which were all because of me.
• Got PK zones added back so that people could actually PK again.
• Got the upload system changed back to how it should have been when it was released. Got the pricing for shields reduced.
• Replaced the donuts in the Burger Refuge with burgers.
• Remade the entire spar system with fp4.

Your turn.

heil godking

[*] I went fishing once.